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Decarbonisation: Mix of diesel/electric Leeds, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Liverpool

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modernrail

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As I walked through Lime Street this evening I noted how clean the roof has remained since it was restored some years ago. This prompted a thought. Once the new Northern, Transpennine and LNER fleets have been fully introduced, which of the 4 stations is likely to see the highest proportion of electrics and what are the likely proportions at each station (presuming that all bi-modes will run into the stations in electric mode).

My guess and it is only a guess, is Liverpool Lime Street (and infact Liverpool in general) will have the highest proportion of electric to diesel.
 
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Dr Hoo

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Ironically the new TfW service to Chester via the Halton Curve has materially increased the diesel proportion at Liverpool Lime Street recently.
 

plugwash

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Afaict bi-modes will have a relatively small impact on diesel running in northern cities, northern has ordered some 769s, which may slightly reduce the amount of diesel at manchester, but they only ordered 8 (which translates to maybe 2TPH each way) and given the huge delays some would question if they will turn up at all. TPE has ordered some 802s, but given the length of the journey from Liverpool to edinburgh and back 18 trains only translates to about 2TPH each way. LNER have obviously ordered a bunch of bi-modes but they only represent about 3TPH each way at leeds, some of which (ones that terminate at leeds) are presumablly already electric.

There is also the question of whether TPE will bother to switch to electric mode for the run through the center of leeds, given that neither Manchester to Leeds or Leeds to york are electrified.

I haven't put the time in to check thouroughly, but i'm pretty sure liverpool lime street is way ahead of leeds and manchester picadilly, thanks to a combination of the Merseyrail third rail system and the modern electrification projects out of lime street, such that most of the local services from there can now be electric.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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With recent routeing changes, there is now only 1tph electric service between Earlestown and Manchester on the Chat Moss route.
The Leeds-Bradford-Manchester-Liverpool (if it ever starts) will also be diesel.
Liverpool-Scarborough will soon be 68+Mk5.
The Liverpool-Newcastle (-Edinburgh) will be 802, but it remains to be seen if they will switch to electric west of Victoria.

At Lime St, the major block of remaining diesel services run on the CLC route - wiring that would allow at least 3tph to go electric.
The main "diesel under the wires" culprit at the moment is the Manchester Airport-Wigan-Windermere/Barrow service.
Plus Pacers at Alderley Edge...
 

modernrail

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My understanding is that one of the potential sources of waste hydrogen (rather than having to create new hydrogen - often from fossil fuels) is in Warrington but I can't find my refererence! Has anybody else heard this? If so, might there be an opportunity to power CLC (and maybe Liverpool to Chester and Chester -Leeds) on hydrogen?

I was a Renatus unit at the weekend and I think the hydrgoen unit (if proven) in 2 + 2 format with the seats that Greater Anglia have on the Stadlers would be perfect for these services and if the tanks can hold enough, into North Wales from Liverpool as well.
 

modernrail

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With recent routeing changes, there is now only 1tph electric service between Earlestown and Manchester on the Chat Moss route.
The Leeds-Bradford-Manchester-Liverpool (if it ever starts) will also be diesel.
Liverpool-Scarborough will soon be 68+Mk5.
The Liverpool-Newcastle (-Edinburgh) will be 802, but it remains to be seen if they will switch to electric west of Victoria.

At Lime St, the major block of remaining diesel services run on the CLC route - wiring that would allow at least 3tph to go electric.
The main "diesel under the wires" culprit at the moment is the Manchester Airport-Wigan-Windermere/Barrow service.
Plus Pacers at Alderley Edge...
Why would the 802's not run on electric from Manchester to Liverpool? That would seem a bizarre waste of bi-mode capability.

I do think it is a shame that 68's are not bi-mode but I can also see that the fact that there is not a lot of wiring east of Manchester makes it difficult to justify yet, although that speaks to the need to concentrate 802's on wired routes as much as possible and get on with some very obvious in-fill schemes at the very least, like the little stretch between Leeds and York.
 

hwl

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My understanding is that one of the potential sources of waste hydrogen (rather than having to create new hydrogen - often from fossil fuels) is in Warrington but I can't find my refererence! Has anybody else heard this? If so, might there be an opportunity to power CLC (and maybe Liverpool to Chester and Chester -Leeds) on hydrogen?

I was a Renatus unit at the weekend and I think the hydrgoen unit (if proven) in 2 + 2 format with the seats that Greater Anglia have on the Stadlers would be perfect for these services and if the tanks can hold enough, into North Wales from Liverpool as well.
Several sources around each of Dee / Mersey, Tees and South Humber Refineries.
 

driver_m

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802s are currently doing their tests on the Chat Moss in AC mode so I can’t see why they wouldn’t when introduced.
 

driver_m

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The Hydrogen is supposedly from Widnes, that was one of the reasons for mentioning the use of Liverpool-Widnes area as a test bed and conversion of the units. Although it could mean the CLC line, The low level line to Warrington Bank Quay & Latchford is currently virtually unused so would make an excellent testing ground for the units and who knows, with the large expansion of housing around the line and the impending closure of Fidlers Ferry, there may be an opportunity to use it for passenger service again.
 

CdBrux

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The low level line to Warrington Bank Quay & Latchford is currently virtually unused so would make an excellent testing ground for the units and who knows, with the large expansion of housing around the line and the impending closure of Fidlers Ferry, there may be an opportunity to use it for passenger service again.

If I'm thinking of the same line then the recently released designs for junctions on HS2 to facilitate a Liverpool spur suggest that a part of that line could be taken over by the HS2 Liverpool spur
 
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