• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

December 2015 Timetable Change

Status
Not open for further replies.

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,426
I've seen this new SWT service and expected to see more Yeovil Jn - Pen Mill journeys.
I suppose they are geared to travel to/from London.
They are mainly extensions of existing services that would have terminated at Yeovil Jn, running in marginal time. The bulk of the daily service carries on to Exeter so there are normally no trains available to run to Pen Mill. Some trains via Westbury are bringing route learners into passenger service. They have basically got exactly what was asked for in the track access agreement, there was never any intention that it be a regular service.

In the past there plans for a west to south curve at Yeovil Jn which would have enabled Bristol - Weymouth trains to call there.

Very historic plans. There is nothing in any current route studies about providing such a link, no matter how many times it gets posted in these forums.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
They are mainly extensions of existing services that would have terminated at Yeovil Jn, running in marginal time. The bulk of the daily service carries on to Exeter so there are normally no trains available to run to Pen Mill. Some trains via Westbury are bringing route learners into passenger service. They have basically got exactly what was asked for in the track access agreement, there was never any intention that it be a regular service.


Very historic plans. There is nothing in any current route studies about providing such a link, no matter how many times it gets posted in these forums.

Not quite.

The original track access agreement asked for the following services that aren't in the new timetable:

06:28 Yeovil Pen Mill - Yeovil Junction
06:42 Yeovil Junction - London Waterloo via Frome
10:20 London Waterloo - Yeovil Junction via Frome
14:50 Yeovil Pen Mill - Exeter St Davids
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,426
Not quite.

The original track access agreement asked for the following services that aren't in the new timetable:

06:28 Yeovil Pen Mill - Yeovil Junction
06:42 Yeovil Junction - London Waterloo via Frome
10:20 London Waterloo - Yeovil Junction via Frome
14:50 Yeovil Pen Mill - Exeter St Davids

Must admit to not checking the exact details, :oops: but that still wouldn't have made it much more of a regular service though, as per geoffk's point.

Perhaps they are waiting for more DMU stock to be released from the South Hants locals.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
Still no sign of the single pdf version of the December timetable yet - unless I'm looking in the wrong place.

Maybe they're not doing it anymore?

Given the amount of changes that they have had to make to individual tables in recent times after the initial publication, that frankly wouldn't be surprising.

Incidentally, there's no maps/diagrams either.
 
Last edited:

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,086
Maybe they're not doing it anymore?

That would be frankly ludicrous. It was the only download that was useful. Yes, I am well aware that some services are updated afterwards, in which case I can download it again and/or live with it.

It would also, I believe, break the ORR requirement for NR to produce "a complete" timetable. "A complete" is not defined as 300 separate PDFs that you can't scroll up and down through.
 
Last edited:

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
That would be frankly ludicrous. It was the only download that was useful. Yes, I am well aware that some services are updated afterwards, in which case I can download it again and/or live with it.

It would also, I believe, break the ORR requirement for NR to produce "a complete" timetable. "A complete" is not defined as 300 separate PDFs that you can't scroll up and down through.

"Some services"? There was a very large number of changes the last few times which rendered the single file pretty much out of date as soon as it was published.

I'd actually completely disagree with you with regard to the usability of the two options. I've always found the separate pdf files much handier, as you can just select which table you want (anyone who uses it regularly has a fair idea which table is where) rather than scrolling through hundreds of pages, and can switch between tables far more easily than in a single file.

Is it that hard to select a particular table number pdf file within a single file directory? As I posted above, I find that version much handier than a pdf file that's several thousand pages long.

I think you're being rather narrow in your definition of complete!

But we will have to wait and see. The absence of maps/diagrams might suggest that they are still being worked upon, which would be an integral part of the full file.
 
Last edited:

greatkingrat

Established Member
Joined
20 Jan 2011
Messages
2,765
I note that the NRT no longer makes any attempt to distinguish between the Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Great Northern brands, showing all such trains as "TL".
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
I note that the NRT no longer makes any attempt to distinguish between the Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Great Northern brands, showing all such trains as "TL".

Techinally that's correct as they are all (Govia) Thameslink (Railway) trains as the the company name for them. Sub brands aren't company names, which is what they are.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,385
Location
Bolton
Network Rail - What's New?

London Overground

Highbury & Islington to West Croydon / Clapham Junction Route
On Mondays to Saturdays there are more trains to/from West Croydon after 2200 hours
Romford to Upminster Route
On Saturday evenings trains finish later (the same time as Mondays to Fridays)
A Sunday service is introduced, with trains running every 30 minutes

Great Northern

Great Northern Hertford Loop and Welwyn Garden City stopping trains weekday Service to Moorgate is
continued late evening until midnight also all day Saturday and Sunday by diverting to serve Moorgate, Old
Street, Essex Road, Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park instead of Kings Cross. Passengers for Kings Cross
have a cross platform connection at Highbury & Islington for London Underground Victoria line, tickets are interavailable.

Connections to all parts of London are available by London Underground at Moorgate and London Overground
and Underground at Highbury & Islington.

Southern, Gatwick Express and Thameslink South

Trains Off Peak weekdays and Saturdays are totally revised as at the start of the transition preparing for
completion of the Thameslink programme when trains south of the Thames will be linked to destinations including
Peterborough and Cambridge.
Two of the four per hour nonstop London Victoria to Gatwick Airport, Gatwick Express trains will run to Brighton,
just stopping London Victoria, Gatwick Airport and Brighton.
Two per Hour Brighton Express trains will run stopping London Victoria, Clapham Junction, East Croydon and
Brighton with one per hour stopping at Gatwick Airport and Hassocks and one per hour stopping at Horley and
Burgess Hill.
Trains between London Victoria and Sussex Coast destinations such as Worthing, Lewes, Eastbourne and
Littlehampton have station Stops swapped to make some Journeys faster.
London Victoria to Crawley, Horsham, Chichester, Portsmouth and Southampton trains with portions for the Arun
Valley and Bognor Regis will run faster as they will run nonstop between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport.
Reigate and Tonbridge trains are diverted to serve London Victoria and Clapham Junction instead of London
Bridge and Norwood Junction and will run faster as they will be nonstop between East Croydon and Redhill.
Passengers for London Bridge and Norwood Junction change at East Croydon. There will continue to be half
hourly direct London Bridge trains for Redhill, Merstham and Coulsdon South with 4 fast per hour Purley and
Norwood Junction and 7 per hour for East Croydon.
Bedford to Three Bridges trains via London Thameslink stations will stop additionally at Purley, Coulsdon South,
Merstham and Redhill.
Bedford to Brighton trains via London Thameslink stations will stop all stations between Hayward’s Heath and
Brighton.
Two per hour London Bridge to Brighton trains will run faster just stopping at East Croydon, Gatwick Airport,
Three Bridges and Hayward’s Heath with one per hour stopping at Balcombe and one per hour stopping Burgess
Hill.

Thameslink North Overnight

A 3 Year trial of doubling the frequency of overnight trains Sunday night/ Monday morning to Friday night/
Saturday morning (no service Saturday night/ Sunday morning) between Bedford, Luton Airport Parkway and
London St Pancras. As a consequence the opportunity is taken to speed up the current overnight service
Bedford, Luton Airport Parkway, London, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges train by cutting out some
of the station stops between St Albans and London which are served instead by the new train.

Virgin Trains East Coast

Mondays to Fridays
Southbound
The 0559 hours from Newcastle to London King’s Cross will start from Sunderland at 0540 hours
The 0626 hours from Edinburgh Waverley to London King’s Cross will start from Stirling at 0526
hours, calling additionally at Falkirk Grahamston and Haymarket.
Northbound
The 1500 hours from London King’s Cross to Edinburgh Waverley is extended through to Stirling,
calling additionally at Haymarket and Falkirk Grahamston. The 2000 hours from London King’s Cross
to Newcastle is extended through to Sunderland.
Saturdays
We will be operating the following additional services: -
0940 hours from Leeds to London King’s Cross, calling at Wakefield Westgate and Peterborough.
1904 hours from London King’s Cross to Leeds, Calling at Peterborough, Doncaster and Wakefield
Westgate.

Scot Rail

Timetable Improvements from 13 December
ScotRail’s new timetable, launching on Sunday 13 December, contains improvements for customers who travel in
the South West of the country; to Lanark or Carstairs; or who use the West Highland Line.
Some Services will be extended to call at more stations and new services added. Others have been retimed to
provide better connections for Customers.
Phil Verster, Managing director of the ScotRail Alliance, said; “This is the first set of timetable changes since we
took over the franchise. We’ve worked hard to make sure we’re making the best use of our rolling stock so that,
Wherever possible, the busiest services have the most capacity. Services in the South West have been
completely overhauled to allow more opportunity for local travel between Ayr and Stranraer. And in South
Lanarkshire we’ve added late night station calls to help Those in Lanark and Carstairs get home.”
Derek Mackay, Minister for Transport and Island, said” Scotland’s rail networks are currently more popular than
ever with 90 million journeys being made every year. I have always been clear that rail services must meet the
specific needs of the communities that they serve and offer both reliable and timely connections.
“That is why we are currently investing record amounts in Scotland’s railways to ensure that more people have
access to these services, and why Transport Scotland routinely works in consultation with local communities to
make sure that we run services that provide maximum benefit for passengers.
“These new timetables are good news for rail passengers in Stranraer, Lanark and Carstairs who will be able to
enjoy more frequent services from December.”
Passengers should check their own journey on www.scotrail.co.uk by selecting a date on or after 13 December.

Glasgow to Stranraer route
Monday – Sunday; New hourly Ayr – Girvan service with every other train extended to Stranraer. This provides
12 trains per day to Girvan and 8 to Stranraer – Compared with 10 and 6 in the current timetable.
Two additional Ayr – Kilmarnock services Monday – Saturday, and two extra Sunday trains between Ayr –
Stranraer.
Monday – Saturday Stranraer and Girvan services will now run to Ayr, Kilmarnock, or Glasgow Central via
Kilmarnock, therefore passengers for Paisley and Kilwinning should change at Ayr for a connection going North.
Short connections times at Ayr mean that end to end journey times are broadly comparable.
On Sundays, passengers travelling from Stranraer and Girvan to Glasgow Central need to change at Ayr for a
service to the city.
Trains between Ayr and Glasgow Central via Kilmarnock will no longer call at Prestwick International Airport and
Prestwick Town. Passengers should change at Troon for a connection to these stations.
In order to accommodate these additional these additional services and timetable improvements, services
throughout the day have been slightly retimed. Customers should check their journey before travelling.
Lanark and Carstairs services
Mondays to Fridays 23.20 Glasgow Central to Motherwell has been extended to Lanark.
Monday to Friday 22.31 Dalmuir to Motherwell has been extended to Carstairs.
Following Feedback from Customers, there will be a redistribution of carriages to where they are needed most in
the morning and evening peaks.
West Highland Line
On Sundays, the 09.56 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban and 16.11 Oban to Glasgow Queen Street will become a
year – round services. Previously these ran during the summer months only.
Edinburgh to Dunblane
Monday to Friday 05.21 Dunblane to Edinburgh now departs Dunblane earlier at 05.13 to provide a connection
from Dunblane into the new Virgin Trains East Coast 05.26 Stirling to London Kings Cross.
This information is also available online at www.scotrail.co.uk/dec15timetable

Train operator coding

In this publication of the NRT, TL covers Southern, Gatwick Express, Great Northern and Thameslink train
Services.

Apologies for the terrible formatting, I've modified it slightly but they didn't do a very good job!
 
Last edited:

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
The eNRT files have now been updated with schematic map diagrams for the tables.

The network maps/diagrams are still outstanding.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
Complete timetable as one pdf still outstanding as well.

As I pointed out before, it's a bit difficult to do until all of the constituent files are completed - I'd imagine it will appear when the maps are completed.

I still can't fathom how you find the single file easier to use.

I find it much handier to be able to open separate tables, and then switch between them using the ctrl and tab keys.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nice to see that the tradition of eNRT inconsistencies continues, with the "What's new" section mentioning a new Sunday service on the Romford-Upminster route, but in table 4 they say "No Sunday service"!
 
Last edited:

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,086
As I pointed out before, it's a bit difficult to do until all of the constituent files are completed - I'd imagine it will appear when the maps are completed.
Well, a week after starting and that useful "National Timetable" (as opposed to "300 bits of a National Timetable") seems to have gone the way of all flesh, without a word of apology.

Some bright spark on the IT side has presumably determined that we are all nincompoops, incapable of using a National Timetable. I mean, it's not hard to do, to stitch together the originating material for the 300 PDFs into one document. Would take me about 10 minutes. Now I can't have a single overall document on my computer desktop that I can scroll through, because while I might know what table 26 or 65 are about, I'm not sufficient of a gricer to know every single one, so scrolling around a bit is (was) nice and straightforward.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
Well, a week after starting and that useful "National Timetable" (as opposed to "300 bits of a National Timetable") seems to have gone the way of all flesh, without a word of apology.

Some bright spark on the IT side has presumably determined that we are all nincompoops, incapable of using a National Timetable. I mean, it's not hard to do, to stitch together the originating material for the 300 PDFs into one document. Would take me about 10 minutes. Now I can't have a single overall document on my computer desktop that I can scroll through, because while I might know what table 26 or 65 are about, I'm not sufficient of a gricer to know every single one, so scrolling around a bit is (was) nice and straightforward.

Do what I do - just look at the maps and then open the appropriate file.

The separate files are far easier as you can have several tables open simultaneously and tab between them all without jumping from page to page and losing where you were.

Presumably as the maps weren't ready (I haven't checked to see if they've been updated) the complete single file wasn't done.
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,411
Location
Ely
Do what I do - just look at the maps and then open the appropriate file.

The separate files are far easier as you can have several tables open simultaneously and tab between them all without jumping from page to page and losing where you were.

Presumably as the maps weren't ready (I haven't checked to see if they've been updated) the complete single file wasn't done.

I always assumed they always offered both options because people used it in different ways.

Personally I've always taken the one big PDF and put it on my iPod Touch for consulting 'on the move'. It's not half as convenient as a book, but then a 4000 page book isn't convenient to carry around either :)

So having 300 separate PDFs rather than one big one is no use for me - trying to navigate through multiple documents just isn't practical on a mobile device.
 

Darren R

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2013
Messages
1,252
Location
Lancashire
Well personally I don't care what format the eNRT comes in - but it would be nice if they managed to produce a document that is reasonably accurate for once! <D (Yes, I know, if they do that it sets a dangerous precedent and they'd have to do it again! :p)
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,411
Location
Ely
I've given up waiting and made my own version of the complete timetable from the separate files. There's lots of ways of combining PDFs available on the Internet, after a few minutes looking around I went with this one

https://foxyutils.com/mergepdf/

which did the job. The table files being effectively in alphabetical order makes it quick to drag-and-drop them to end up in the right order.

It's not as good as having it done professionally:

- There's a 50MB limit so I've had to make two files rather than one (which is still much better than >300)
- It would take lots of effort to reorder the files to put all the maps in the right place, so I just put them all at the start (which actually makes some sense)
- There are no chapter marks, which is a bit of a pain for navigation

but it'll do the job in the absence of it having been done properly.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
I always assumed they always offered both options because people used it in different ways.

Personally I've always taken the one big PDF and put it on my iPod Touch for consulting 'on the move'. It's not half as convenient as a book, but then a 4000 page book isn't convenient to carry around either :)

So having 300 separate PDFs rather than one big one is no use for me - trying to navigate through multiple documents just isn't practical on a mobile device.

Fair point - but if you are using a laptop, I would argue that the separate files are far more useful, given it's much easier to tab between them and return.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,086
Can anyone point us at any reference of the actual requirement that was imposed on Network Rail some years ago to produce this timetable, I can't recall if it was the Regulator or DfT which imposed it. Then we can take it up as a breach of the requirement.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
A small point, but one worth noting, is that the new London Overground timetable pdfs now include the Abellio services that serve Seven Sisters & Edmonton Green.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Revised c2c timetable pdf file is now online.
 

ChrisHogan

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2016
Messages
342
Can anyone point us at any reference of the actual requirement that was imposed on Network Rail some years ago to produce this timetable, I can't recall if it was the Regulator or DfT which imposed it. Then we can take it up as a breach of the requirement.

If it is anywhere, it would be in NR's Network Licence.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
The Scotrail timetable pdfs for services after March 20th are now online at the Scotrail website.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top