December 2017 Timetable

[neilm]

I am confused by GTR/Thameslink, are Brighton to Bedford trains starting to stop at London Bridge in the new year? RTT says Yes, Thameslink Programme website says Yes but Thameslink's new timetable says No.

 

[Ianno87]

I am confused by GTR/Thameslink, are Brighton to Bedford trains starting to stop at London Bridge in the new year? RTT says Yes, Thameslink Programme website says Yes but Thameslink's new timetable says No.

In OpenTrainTimes, most appear to have duplicate paths via Herne Hill (1Wxx) and London Bridge (1Txx), with the same timings north of Blackfriars and south of Croydon. Perhaps ready for paths via London Bridge to be switched 'on' at a suitable point in time?

 

[CheeseOnToast]

Duplicate paths exist, the default path is via Herne Hill, once reopened and route learning is underway the paths via London Bridge can be utilised on the day but with the passenger call at London Bridge itself omitted as there is no guarantee the train will run via London Bridge if the driver doesn't yet sign it, if you note in RTT then the xTxx have (Q) next to them, run as required. Northbound is showing to call as I suspect the pass to pass SRTs for 700s via London Bridge don't exist for whatever reason however the times are not in bold whereas passenger calls are in bold (I've only just noticed this despite years of using RTT, is that correct?!). As it's about seven minutes quicker via London Bridge there are booked stops at Brick Arms southbound and Blackfriars Junctions in the northbounds to aid signallers getting trains in the right order and prevent delays due to early running.

 

[WatcherZero]

Just noticed the weirdest occasional but highly advantageous service, once per day at 6:44am (6:46 from Dec) there is a direct service from Wigan to Newton-le-willows taking 12 minutes, for the rest of the day you have to change in Warrington and the journey time is 1hr give or take 5 minutes because of the huge interchange time.

 

[Mathew S]

Just noticed the weirdest occasional but highly advantageous service, once per day at 6:44am (6:46 from Dec) there is a direct service from Wigan to Newton-le-willows taking 12 minutes, for the rest of the day you have to change in Warrington and the journey time is 1hr give or take 5 minutes because of the huge interchange time.

Been there since May at least. I've always assumed it's something to do with route knowledge, though I dont actually know.

 

[Kite159]

Been there since May at least. I've always assumed it's something to do with route knowledge, though I dont actually know.

Been there for a couple years at least, route knowledge over the Golborne Junction - Lowton Junction side of that triangle (the other side used by the hourly Manchester - Scotland EMUs). A Passenger Service over Unusual Lines (PSUL)

 

[dizzie]

Re the new Virgin WC timetable, can someone tell me exactly what date in December the new one takes effect? All I can see is 'to Dec' on the old one and 'from Dec' on the new one.

 

[berneyarms]

10 December is the date for the new timetable.

 

[dizzie]

10 December is the date for the new timetable.

Thanks!

 

[berneyarms]

Updated list of published pdf timetables:

Arriva Trains Wales
c2c
Chiltern Railways
Cross Country
East Midlands Trains
Gatwick Express
Greater Anglia
Great Northern
London Midland franchise (new timetables are on the London Midland website)
Northern
Scotrail (most lines)
Southern
South Western Railway
TfL Rail
Thameslink
Transpennine Express
Virgin Trains
Virgin Trains East Coast

Still to come at this stage:

Great Western Railway*
London Overground
Merseyrail
Southeastern*
eNRT and Network Rail WTT

*Changes on January 1st

I'm ignoring the small open access operators and Caledonian Sleeper as they generally don't change or don't get published until the date of the change

 

[neilm]

Duplicate paths exist, the default path is via Herne Hill, once reopened and route learning is underway the paths via London Bridge can be utilised on the day but with the passenger call at London Bridge itself omitted as there is no guarantee the train will run via London Bridge if the driver doesn't yet sign it, if you note in RTT then the xTxx have (Q) next to them, run as required. Northbound is showing to call as I suspect the pass to pass SRTs for 700s via London Bridge don't exist for whatever reason however the times are not in bold whereas passenger calls are in bold (I've only just noticed this despite years of using RTT, is that correct?!). As it's about seven minutes quicker via London Bridge there are booked stops at Brick Arms southbound and Blackfriars Junctions in the northbounds to aid signallers getting trains in the right order and prevent delays due to early running.

So they won't be stopping at London bridge in January. It does not seem to be clear

 

[berneyarms]

So they won't be stopping at London bridge in January. It does not seem to be clear

It's perfectly clear - the published pdf timetables are what's happening until further notice, i.e. Bedford-Brighton trains not stopping at London Bridge.

RTT shows non-bold times at London Bridge, indicating that they are non-passenger stops, and are only potential paths, denoted by the (Q).

 

[neilm]

It's perfectly clear - the published pdf timetables are what's happening until further notice, i.e. Bedford-Brighton trains not stopping at London Bridge.

RTT shows non-bold times at London Bridge, indicating that they are non-passenger stops, and are only potential paths, denoted by the (Q).

So is that until may or further notice? As other sources say January so maybe later in January they start again?

 

[berneyarms]

So is that until may or further notice? As other sources say January so maybe later in January they start again?

The timetables say that they are valid until the May timetable change, and that's when Thameslink trains are due to start stopping at London Bridge again as per the article below.

http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.u...introduction-cross-london-thameslink-services

 

[CheeseOnToast]

As things stand at the moment the xTxx paths are NOT booked to call at London Bridge until May 18.

 

[neilm]

Interesting their own website says January 2018 but I guess it has been pushed back until May 2018 http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/key-dates-and-service-changes

 

[jon0844]

It would seem that there are next to no 8 car trains showing on GN for Sundays after December, for services like the all stations Cambridge to Hatfield, then Potters Bar, FPK & KGX. All showing as 4 car still. I thought the platform extensions would be done in time to strengthen services before next May or December, or are GN just playing safe for now?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

It would seem that there are next to no 8 car trains showing on GN for Sundays after December, for services like the all stations Cambridge to Hatfield, then Potters Bar, FPK & KGX. All showing as 4 car still. I thought the platform extensions would be done in time to strengthen services before next May or December, or are GN just playing safe for now?

Did you also spot that there are Rail Replacement buses WGC and Alexandra Palace, calling at all stations, on six consecutive Sundays ? (The last two of February, and all Sundays in March)
I'm sure that won't inconvenience people, with a journey time of about 1hr20m

 

[jon0844]

Did you also spot that there are Rail Replacement buses WGC and Alexandra Palace, calling at all stations, on six consecutive Sundays ? (The last two of February, and all Sundays in March)
I'm sure that won't inconvenience people, with a journey time of about 1hr20m

Ah, I hadn't read the full timetable but that explains why there are two separate Sunday timetables.

Yeah, that's going to be fun.

I was hoping we'd see some 8 car train services when in fact we're getting 0 car train services and a bus!

Also, not sure if it's been said already, but I saw today something about the Thameslink timetable change now being the end of December and not the same day as everywhere else changing. I flew past the poster and didn't stop to read it, but is that correct?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Any 2-car Northern services being strengthened to 4-car?

 

[berneyarms]

Updated list of published pdf timetables:

Arriva Trains Wales
c2c
Chiltern Railways
Cross Country
East Midlands Trains
Gatwick Express
Greater Anglia
Great Northern
West Midlands & Euston Lines franchise (new timetables are on the current London Midland website)
London Overground
Northern
Scotrail (most lines)
Southern
South Western Railway
TfL Rail
Thameslink
Transpennine Express
Virgin Trains
Virgin Trains East Coast

Still to come at this stage:

Great Western Railway*
Merseyrail
Southeastern*
eNRT and Network Rail WTT

*Changes on January 1st

I'm ignoring the small open access operators and Caledonian Sleeper as they generally don't change or don't get published until the date of the change

 

[A0wen]

Ah, I hadn't read the full timetable but that explains why there are two separate Sunday timetables.

Yeah, that's going to be fun.

I was hoping we'd see some 8 car train services when in fact we're getting 0 car train services and a bus!

Also, not sure if it's been said already, but I saw today something about the Thameslink timetable change now being the end of December and not the same day as everywhere else changing. I flew past the poster and didn't stop to read it, but is that correct?

To be fair, they've got to do engineering some time and Sunday is the obvious time to do it.

They're running trains via Hertford so for points north of Stevenage there remains a direct service. The challenge is for people from Knebworth - Potters Bar, so only 5 stations to be fair, and there are other alternatives people could use if the journey time is a problem i.e. Knebworth - travel to Stevenage and then head south, Welwyn North, WGC, Hatfield - travel to Hertford / St Albans and use train. Potters Bar - head to Cockfosters and use Piccadilly line.

 

[Fred26]

Seven stations. Welham Green and Brookmans Park are between Hatfield and Potters Bar.

 

[Halish Railway]

Any 2-car Northern services being strengthened to 4-car?

I would expect that in May 2018 when 319's cascade diesel units off the Bolton Corridor.

 

[Starmill]

www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Arriva_Trains_Wales/Content/Plan_Your_Journey/AW4750%20Significant%20changes%20December%202017%20v2.pdf

Have these changes been mentioned?

Apparently there is a new 07:56 Southampton Central to Bournemouth, calling at Brockenhurst (08:10) and Bournemouth (08:23).

 

[Starmill]

I have not seen this reported anywhere until now - and I am very surprised. Searching for 'Knottingley' in this thread returns no results. Hourly Leeds to Knottingley via Outwood services are running on Sundays Streethouse, Featherstone and Potenfract Tanshelf gain a Sunday service every 2 hours as does Wakefield Westgate <> Wakefield Kirkgate. Wow.

 

[splashoutradio]

The eNRT (Link) and the WTTs (Link) for December are now available.

 

[David Turner]

Have just looked at Table 26 of the new eNRT and only the on the hour departures from London Kings Cross to Edinburgh are shown and the Newark stoppers. Anybody travelling from London to Leeds will have a problem. Looks ok in the opposite direction.
I reported last year that the 19.07 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street wasn't shown and it still isn't, I think this would be about the fourth or probably fifth timetable issue that its been missing. Does anybody report this back to Network Rail?

 

[MikeWM]

Looks like maps have gone missing from the eNRT now too.

Add that to all the incremental issues from the last few years which are still present - no sleeper timetables, no operators pages, no 'crossing London' etc. pages, no national maps, and no single volume. Gets worse every release.

Plus the link from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/timetables.aspx - the first search result for 'national rail timetable' - is a 404 not found.

Lovely

 

[swt_passenger]

Apparently there is a new 07:56 Southampton Central to Bournemouth, calling at Brockenhurst (08:10) and Bournemouth (08:23).

Looks like the existing XC ECS from Eastleigh that would form the 0845ish off Bournemouth coming into passenger service early. Presumably quite an easy service to 'warm up'...