December 2018 timetable changes (some now confirmed scrapped) - contagion spreads

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Scotrail88, 8 Jul 2018.

  1. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Poster I saw at Waterloo states that the new platforms "will be available during 2019". I was only just thinking that it still looked an awful lot of work to do there.
     
  2. neilm

    neilm Member

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    According to Paul Clifton, SWR and GWR will not implement there December 2018 changes see https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1016387950911873024
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 10 Jul 2018
  3. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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  4. sufian123

    sufian123 Member

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    West Midlands trains not as well. Virgin is but not sure what new changes they be doing? As Blackpool services emu have started.
     
  5. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44774539

    RDG is making a pig's breakfast of this. The scale of the proposed December timetable changes at TOCs whose timetables have hitherto been little altered might have been questionable (such as the extent to which West Midlands Trains / London Northwestern Railway / ex. London Midland proposed merging services across very long distances), but to 'postpone' virtually all proposed changes - even changes which have been extensively consulted on and are not operationally challenging - is thoroughly unacceptable.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2018
  6. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    I think the underlying problem is that Network Rail’s planning function are in such a bad position in terms of workload backlog since Thameslink and Northern/TPE debacles that they are simply incapable of producing the necessary changes for any operator in time for December. When you’re 4-6 months behind on a twice-yearly task, the only route to recovery is to skip an iteration, which is therefore what is happening.
     
  7. 306024

    306024 Established Member

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    The normal advice is when in a hole, stop digging. All timetable changes, even minor ones take a lot of time just to process all the relevant data, including all diagrams and rosters which most outside the industry wouldn’t have any visibility of.

    Add on all the short term planning variants that come on top of the base timetable and it is perhaps best a firebreak has been created. Remember Christmas has to be planned immediately after the start of the December timetable too. A tricky task if the base plan isn’t finalised.
     
  8. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    The cynic in me thinks that the postponement from December 2018 to May 2019 lets Network Rail and a number of TOCs off the hook for the lateness of infrastructure and rolling stock availability plans.
    The by-product is that it will hit a number of business plans based on increased capacity which won't now be available.
    Expect more bleating about revenue shortfalls.

    At first sight it isn't clear why XC is in the "no change" list.
    Is this simply because they had to be replanned around other TOCs' services which were due to change?
    Looks like the riskiest part of the December list is the Elizabeth Line opening of the Crossrail tunnel from Abbey Wood to Paddington (but no impact on other TOCs).
     
  9. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    I was hoping that they would grasp the nettle and thin out some of the TPE core services to improve reliability and make stock available to strengthen the remaining ones. Longer trains = less overcrowding = fewer delays because of less overtime at station stops. I let another train go at Leeds yesterday (couldn't get on) but the following stopper had 6 cars!
     
  10. timatheronwood

    timatheronwood Member

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    And the Berks and Hants line electric stock - will we get longer trains on the old timetable? Anyone know where I can find what is planned for GWR?
     
  11. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

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    When it's actually been worked out, no doubt it will emerge. At the moment nobody has done any work on it as GWR were expecting to do some changes to their timetable. That has now been binned.
     
  12. sprunt

    sprunt Member

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    Could this have any impact on Crossrail? I understood that the unofficial official launch date was the day after the new timetable implementation, so was it dependent on that happening? And if so, it would presumably only affect the service west of Paddington - the core section should be okay, shouldn't it?
     
  13. nickw1

    nickw1 Member

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    It would be nice if SWR could implement some of the easier improvements which don't require a complete recast, for example one of my personal favourites is the hourly Beaulieu Road service. OK Beaulieu Road might be one of the less important stations in the scheme of things but the cost of stopping all the xx39 downs and xx55 (Southampton) ups there would be minimal.

    Wonder also how difficult it would be to insert the new Southampton Portsmouth semi fast into the current timetable? That was the other proposal in the new timetable I really liked; at the moment there is effectively only one train an hour as the GWR and the stopper are bunched together at the Portsmouth end. Given the current stopper has a long layover at Portsmouth I can see it _might_ be possible (not looked at the timetable in detail) to interwork the existing stopper and a new semi-fast.
     
  14. Siemen Staines

    Siemen Staines Member

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    Presumably this could also have a knock on effect to the Turbo cascade programme with 387s not much use on today's Bedwyn - Paddington trains that run during the peak. Off-peak transitioning to IET less of an issue, but its always the peaks where resources are stretched.
     
  15. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    The draft info never went as far as explaining any knock on effects of the extra semi fast, don't forget it has to operate on the assumption that the two existing SN services will also be running between Cosham and Southampton. Interworking at the Portsmouth end between the semi-fast and the stopper might be possible, but not at Southampton, as it is the existing stopper that will extend to Bournemouth. I suggest they won't want to add to any performance risks, and will therefore probably keep the services separate.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2018
  16. SteveOfTheStow

    SteveOfTheStow Member

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    Crossrail will be in 3 pieces when it launches in December, with no through working in the Core (just Paddington Low Level to Abbey Wood), otherwise, yes, there would have been trouble. Shenfield services start running into the Core from May which, given they're mainly the self-contained Electric lines in the East, shouldn't present too many timetabling difficulties. The big change will be December 2019 when Crossrail services spread from the Core onto the GWML - that'll be one Network Rail won't easily be able to postpone like with the December 2018 timetable.
     
  17. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    Of most interest to me is the further delay to Northern's planned improvements. While this seems sensible in circumstances where Northern will want to avoid another timetable debacle, this will be a disappointment to those still waiting for service enhancements due for introduction in December 2017 and which will now be at least 18 months late. On the other hand, there are quirks in the Calder Valley timetable which hopefully can be addressed. Wales and Borders is not affected so their Liverpool - Halton Curve - Chester service will presumably go ahead.
     
  18. Verulamius

    Verulamius Member

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    Had Network Rail already planned the proposed December 2018 timetable as I thought it should have been finalised by around now?

    Is this creating further pressure on the timetablers to sort out the new interactions between those TOCs which are changing and those which are only tweaking their timetables inline with passenger demand?
     
  19. Old Hill Bank

    Old Hill Bank Member

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  20. xtradj

    xtradj Member

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    So the Liverpool and Chester to Leeds via Bradford services now postponed?
     
  21. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Liverpool to Calder Valley was a proposed December 2019 timetable change, so wouldn't happen this year anyway. Chester to Calder Valley should have happened last December, Manchester Airport to Calder Valley was also a proposed December 2019 change but Northern said they were going to bring that forward as a natural extension of the interim service they were providing on the Ordsall Chord.
     
  22. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    The Monday-Friday part of the timetable was offered at the correct timescale of D-26 weeks, but the weekend part of the timetable was to have been offered at D-22. Work on this was abandoned a week or so before the news came out officially.

    Naturally all of it now goes in the bin. From what I’ve heard from inside sources regarding overall quality, this is probably a good thing. Hopefully May 2019 will be a second chance to get it right.
     
  23. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    STP still isnt fairing much better.
     
  24. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    The plan is to change WGC to Moorgate services to run to and from Margate instead. ;)
     
  25. Mollman

    Mollman Member

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    It is worth noting that the RDG table says "planned May timetable" - would interpret that as introducing the timetable originally interned for May rather than continuing with the current one, after all electrics should finally be running via Bolton.
     
  26. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

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    I. At least, I used to do so, but now travel via Barnham to Gatwick, so only use CLJ when the SN service to Southampton breaks down completely (which it did a few weeks ago in the up direction!).
     
  27. 158756

    158756 Member

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    I don't think so - I think 'planned' refers to getting rid of the emergency service cuts. Of course Northern's timetable was thrown together at the last minute and has many things that could be improved, but it sounds like this bodge job will be the basis of the North's rail services going forward.
     
  28. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    Which is far from ideal. There's so many sections where the running times just aren't sufficient and needs addressing urgently. As does the mess at Leeds and the Deansgate corridor.
     
  29. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    Dec 2018 should have been offered by now and hasn't been. Will almost certainly impact on STP even further than already heavily impacted.

    Yes it will almost certainly create issues at NR between those broadly standing still and those that are changing. Its not the way I would have chosen to do it but there we are.
     
  30. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    Here’s the million dollar question - are Network Rail actually capable of delivering a significant timetable change in the current industry climate? Last time a really big change happened (other than May 2018) was probably the ECML recast when NatEx took over -remember them? - and prior to that, the WCML high frequency timetable?
     

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