December 2020 Timetable Change

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g22

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The coming year for the timetable is a bit more complicated now anyway, there will be four opportunities to tweak, but nothing major allowed until we get some sort of normality back.
What about EMR May 21 (former Dec 20) with the electrics starting and the associated Thameslink stuff?
 
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berneyarms

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The coming year for the timetable is a bit more complicated now anyway, there will be four opportunities to tweak, but nothing major allowed until we get some sort of normality back.
Is there any reason why Avanti didn’t make an effort to tweak their Chester/North Wales shuttles to make a 10 minute connection at Crewe to/from London? Paths along North Wales coast aren’t that sensitive surely?

Keeping the standard paths on North Wales means the connections are lost at Crewe and people are having to wait up to half an hour there to connect.

I realise there is a last minute element to this timetable but it means that some of the shuttle services are operating for the sake of it as the TfW shuttle takes an earlier connection.
 

Bikeman78

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A couple of small changes to come, there will be 387 activity on some Baldock services. Also there are going to be some 700/0s to Kings Lynn (this is easier now dividing at Cambridge is going to be heavily reduced). I can’t see this being particularly popular, not if it’s from next week or just for the engineering works next year. 365s returning to Kings Lynn is not possible due to the lack of DOO monitors.
This is to do with the reduction in platforms at King's Cross. The Cambridge stoppers will interwork with the Ely and King's Lynn trains. So there will be 700 to King's Lynn and 387s on the stoppers.
 

HamworthyGoods

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To be fair they have had months to consider an alternative - we are talking 7-8 mins here max.
No, the planning teams were busy preparing for what was a hoped move back towards to a nearer normal timetable and this is where planning resource was directed.

At very late notice as the second wave deepened it was realised that there was a need to return to a timetable which everyone had hoped was consigned to the bin.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Which is completely pointless if the services don't have enough capacity...

I’m not sure where we are (and are likely to be by spring) with the pandemic there are many (if any) services in the country that will in the forthcoming December be short of capacity.
 

The Planner

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What about EMR May 21 (former Dec 20) with the electrics starting and the associated Thameslink stuff?
Will probably still happen as its been in the works for a while, but no one on either side really has the capability to do any sizeable changes.

Is there any reason why Avanti didn’t make an effort to tweak their Chester/North Wales shuttles to make a 10 minute connection at Crewe to/from London? Paths along North Wales coast aren’t that sensitive surely?

Keeping the standard paths on North Wales means the connections are lost at Crewe and people are having to wait up to half an hour there to connect.

I realise there is a last minute element to this timetable but it means that some of the shuttle services are operating for the sake of it as the TfW shuttle takes an earlier connection.
No idea, up to Avanti, though it is still probably down to not wanting to alter the base to alter it back at short notice.
 
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Like @The Planner has said, the Timetable timescales have changed for the upcoming year, so there will be 4 LTP timetable intervention periods across the year.

This means, that some services that people are talking about that have been withdrawn from the WTT can be reinstated at an earlier date instead of having to wait for the next timetable change.

But I doubt there will be any major changes, until we get back to more normal timescales.
 
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Jamesrob637

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25 January is the date the timetables say. Then it'll just be the missing 2 morning Chester-Stockport services, the 07:40 Manchester-Chester and the second evening Stockport-Chester service that will be missing. Well, unless you argue that the Mon-Sat service should have half-hourly for the main stations and the Sun service should have been hourly for all stations and that the Stockport only services should be running to and from Manchester.

I know the enhancements are running 4 years late or thereabouts :s yeah hourly Monday to Saturday with extra Stockports is what I was aiming for! Sundays are for another thread.
 

Peter0124

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Like @The Planner has said, the Timetable timescales have changed for the upcoming year, so there will be 4 LTP timetable intervention periods across the year.

This means, that some services that people are talking about that have been withdrawn from the WTT can be reinstated at an earlier date instead of having to wait for the next timetable change.

But I doubt there will be any major changes, until we get back to more normal timescales.
Do you know when they are? Assuming May 2021 and Dec 2021 are two of them, does this mean the other 2 timetable changes are say Feb 2021 and Sept 2021
 

Peter0124

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March and September are the 2 new ones. May 2021 and Dec 2021 remain.
Ahh, so I take it March could be when Avanti bring back some of their services (Euston-Chester, Euston-Brum-Glasgow) instead of May/Dec if lockdown eases / people return to trains ?
 
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Ahh, so I take it March could be when Avanti bring back some of their services (Euston-Chester, Euston-Brum-Glasgow) instead of May/Dec if lockdown eases / people return to trains ?
In theory yes, if the toc decides too. Unlikely to happen in March though.
 

Llandudno

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Is there any reason why Avanti didn’t make an effort to tweak their Chester/North Wales shuttles to make a 10 minute connection at Crewe to/from London? Paths along North Wales coast aren’t that sensitive surely?

Keeping the standard paths on North Wales means the connections are lost at Crewe and people are having to wait up to half an hour there to connect.

I realise there is a last minute element to this timetable but it means that some of the shuttle services are operating for the sake of it as the TfW shuttle takes an earlier connection.
I don’t think there are any ‘standard’ paths along the north Wales coast, the timetable is all over the place, no clockface frequencies and inconsistent stopping patterns.
 

berneyarms

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I don’t think there are any ‘standard’ paths along the north Wales coast, the timetable is all over the place, no clockface frequencies and inconsistent stopping patterns.
You are misinterpreting what I meant when I wrote that.

First of all I was referring to Avanti services only, which do have a pretty standard pattern (xx:35 ex-Chester to Crewe and xx:49 ex-Crewe to Chester and onwards to North Wales).

But in this case, what I meant was that the shuttle services into and out of Crewe to/from Chester are retaining their normal departure times from Crewe towards Chester and North Wales (XX:47-xx:49) and arrival time into Crewe from Chester at xx:54.

That means they lose the connection from London out of the xx:10 service ex-Euston which is redirected towards Glasgow (arrives at Crewe at xx:47_, and also miss the connection out of the xx:07 departure from Euston to Liverpool which arrives at xx:41.

Instead the advertised connection is off the xx:33 service to Manchester Piccadilly which arrives at Crewe at xx:10. But that in itself connects into the xx:24 TfW Chester shuttle which renders the Crewe-Chester Avanti shuttles almost pointless.

Similarly going south, the shuttles arrive at Crewe at xx:54 and people have to wait until xx:22 to get a connection.

Certainly heading towards Chester, a very small adjustment (max. 5 minutes delay) would make the trains actually meaningful as the 10 minute connection time would be made.
 

Llandudno

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When travelling on the north Wales coast line, connections at Chester are totally random, virtually no attempt is made to offer decent connections with trains to/from Liverpool via Merseyrail or Halton Curve or to Manchester/Leeds via either Northwich or Warrington.

At least there are a couple of coffee shops at Chester station and the Town Crier pub over the road has Sky Sports on TV for when waiting at Chester in the evening for a train back along the coast!

If they can’t be bothered to try and sort connections out at Chester for timetables planned a year in advance there is little hope of relatively short notice adjustments to improve connections at Crewe.
 

PHILIPE

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When travelling on the north Wales coast line, connections at Chester are totally random, virtually no attempt is made to offer decent connections with trains to/from Liverpool via Merseyrail or Halton Curve or to Manchester/Leeds via either Northwich or Warrington.

At least there are a couple of coffee shops at Chester station and the Town Crier pub over the road has Sky Sports on TV for when waiting at Chester in the evening for a train back along the coast!

If they can’t be bothered to try and sort connections out at Chester for timetables planned a year in advance there is little hope of relatively short notice adjustments to improve connections at Crewe.


If you re-timed trains to fit your requirements you would only break connections somewhere else and then somebody else would be having a rant. It seems that connections from Chester along the Coast is all that matters to you.
 

berneyarms

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When travelling on the north Wales coast line, connections at Chester are totally random, virtually no attempt is made to offer decent connections with trains to/from Liverpool via Merseyrail or Halton Curve or to Manchester/Leeds via either Northwich or Warrington.

At least there are a couple of coffee shops at Chester station and the Town Crier pub over the road has Sky Sports on TV for when waiting at Chester in the evening for a train back along the coast!

If they can’t be bothered to try and sort connections out at Chester for timetables planned a year in advance there is little hope of relatively short notice adjustments to improve connections at Crewe.
That’s a TfW issue, and a different one at that.

I am only talking about the Avanti shuttles here and specifically this timetable. Their principal raison d’etre is to offer connections to/from London.
 
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Llandudno

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That’s a TfW issue, and a different one at that.

I am only talking about the Avanti shuttles here and specifically this timetable. Their principal raison d’etre is to offer connections to/from London.
Fair comment, I agree that it should be Avanti’s responsibility to offer decent connections at Crewe in lieu of the through north Wales London services.

Hopefully from May through services from north Wales to London will be restored including the proposed new service from Llandudno to London!
 

peters

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When travelling on the north Wales coast line, connections at Chester are totally random, virtually no attempt is made to offer decent connections with trains to/from Liverpool via Merseyrail or Halton Curve or to Manchester/Leeds via either Northwich or Warrington.

At least there are a couple of coffee shops at Chester station and the Town Crier pub over the road has Sky Sports on TV for when waiting at Chester in the evening for a train back along the coast!

If they can’t be bothered to try and sort connections out at Chester for timetables planned a year in advance there is little hope of relatively short notice adjustments to improve connections at Crewe.

My understanding regarding trains via Northwich is occasionally the first and last trains get re-timed to connect. For instance, the first Manchester bound services connects with the 07:23 Stockport to Euston, whereas if it ran at it's standard 2 minutes past the hour time then it wouldn't connect and with the current reduced frequency Manchester to London timetable any connecting passengers won't leave Stockport until 08:04. Given we're constantly told there's pathing issues around Manchester, I don't know how train operators would be expected to offer good connections except for the early and late services. I certainly don't fancy catching a train which sits at Stockport for 5 minutes to ensure it connects with a London train, even if it means arriving at Stockport 5 minutes before a path is available to Piccadilly.

Merseyrail normally runs every 15 minutes so it shouldn't ever be a long wait in the Liverpool direction and going away from Liverpool it would be beneficial for all routes to have at least a half-hourly service.
 
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Peter0124

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Between the 23rd and 30th December inclusive: Avanti have put a few extra services on from London to Preston and Glasgow Central

I presume this is to help cope with extra travel demand for the Christmas easing especially longer distance
 

Kite159

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Between the 23rd and 30th December inclusive: Avanti have put a few extra services on from London to Preston and Glasgow Central

I presume this is to help cope with extra travel demand for the Christmas easing especially longer distance
Makes sense with Kings Cross closed for some of those dates as well
 

jfisher21

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Yes there are 2 an hour from London - Glasgow via Trent Valley for most hours of the day.

Is this the most trains from London - Glasgow via Trent Valley there have ever been in a day ?
 

Jamesrob637

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Yes there are 2 an hour from London - Glasgow via Trent Valley for most hours of the day.

Is this the most trains from London - Glasgow via Trent Valley there have ever been in a day ?

Probably by a fraction. Seems to be one per hour one hour, and two per hour the next hour. So kind of three every two hours, or one every 40 minutes on average.
 

PHILIPE

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TFW have been running 153s in pairs or attached to something else throughout COVID but as from the Timetable today single ones are booked on the HOWL and Shrewsbury to Crewe locals. They are singles today.
 
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