December 2021 Timetable change

Thomas6187

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Various TOCs have started to upload their timetables for December 2021. Northern and XC appear to be rolling over there current timetable, with TPE reintroducing Manchester-Glasgow and hourly Manchester Victoria-Scarborough services.

Available so far: Northern, XC, TPE, Greater Anglia, LNER
 
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PHILIPE

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Various TOCs have started to upload there timetable for December 2021. Northern and XC appear to be rolling over there current timetable, with TPE reintroducing Manchester-Glasgow and hourly Manchester Victoria-Scarborough services.

Available so far: Northern, XC, TPE, Greater Anglia, LNER

O wouldn't take too much notice at this stage. There is no doubt a lot of editing to do yet and due to COVID there could be quite a lot of alterations depending on the situation.
 

tommy2215

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Northern actually has Hull-Halifax going back to hourly, Lincoln-Sheffield being extended to Leeds again, return of the hourly Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay and a half hourly Leeds-York via Harrogate which is an improvement even on the pre pandemic timetable. But as the previous poster says this could still change.
 

yorksrob

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My main wish is the 10:19 Leeds to Morecambe.

Castleford - Huddersfield would be handy as well, but is less problematic for me.
 

John C

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Northern actually has Hull-Halifax going back to hourly, Lincoln-Sheffield being extended to Leeds again, return of the hourly Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay and a half hourly Leeds-York via Harrogate which is an improvement even on the pre pandemic timetable. But as the previous poster says this could still change.
The Hull-Halifax going back hourly will be welcome as this service is regularly full and standing between Hull and Leeds
 

yorksrob

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The Hull-Halifax going back hourly will be welcome as this service is regularly full and standing between Hull and Leeds
That's very interesting, considering it is itself a relatively new service. That said, it doesn't surprise me that Hull - Leeds justifies half hourly.
 

Kite159

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That's very interesting, considering it is itself a relatively new service. That said, it doesn't surprise me that Hull - Leeds justifies half hourly.

People making use of the cheaper "Northern only" tickets?

[Although it might be 2tph, wasn't it a case of the Northern train departing Hull 10 minutes or so behind the TPE?]
 

John C

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People making use of the cheaper "Northern only" tickets?

[Although it might be 2tph, wasn't it a case of the Northern train departing Hull 10 minutes or so behind the TPE?]
Yeah the Hull to Leeds services generally leave Hull within 7/8 minutes of each other

:06-08 minutes past each hour TPE (times vary by a minute most hours)

:15 minutes past every 2 hours (even numbered hours) NORTHERN

The same pattern is timetabled currently from December when the Northern service goes back to hourly.
 

yorksrob

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I think the departures from the Leeds direction are more evenly distributed, although it would be better to have them so from both directions.
 

mrd269697

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Various TOCs have started to upload their timetables for December 2021. Northern and XC appear to be rolling over there current timetable, with TPE reintroducing Manchester-Glasgow and hourly Manchester Victoria-Scarborough services.

Available so far: Northern, XC, TPE, Greater Anglia, LNER
Can’t see these. Do you have a link for them?
 

YorkshireBear

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Wierdly RTT shows some Scarborough services in middle of day terminating at Stalybridge. Suprised they are terminating them at Victoria too, not an easy place to terminate long trains.
 

northernchris

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My main wish is the 10:19 Leeds to Morecambe.

Castleford - Huddersfield would be handy as well, but is less problematic for me.

The Morecambe service is down to run, no change to Huddersfield - Castleford

Hull - Halifax is proving to be a useful service, I use it regularly and there's a healthy amount of cross Leeds custom. The regular short forms to 2 car are problematic, a couple of weekends ago a service I used was around 15 minutes late due to overcrowding. On arrival at Leeds from Hull the 155 was as rammed as any pre-Covid peak arrival
 

306024

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Various TOCs have started to upload their timetables for December 2021. Northern and XC appear to be rolling over there current timetable, with TPE reintroducing Manchester-Glasgow and hourly Manchester Victoria-Scarborough services.

Available so far: Northern, XC, TPE, Greater Anglia, LNER

It is Network Rail who publish the data that is visible in RTT, not the TOCs. At this stage it is the long term plan, which can still be tweaked, before the short term variations are added later.
 

yorksrob

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The Morecambe service is down to run, no change to Huddersfield - Castleford

Hull - Halifax is proving to be a useful service, I use it regularly and there's a healthy amount of cross Leeds custom. The regular short forms to 2 car are problematic, a couple of weekends ago a service I used was around 15 minutes late due to overcrowding. On arrival at Leeds from Hull the 155 was as rammed as any pre-Covid peak arrival

Thanks for the info.

The Morecambe train is certainly good news anyway.
 

ChrisC

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Northern actually has Hull-Halifax going back to hourly, Lincoln-Sheffield being extended to Leeds again, return of the hourly Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay and a half hourly Leeds-York via Harrogate which is an improvement even on the pre pandemic timetable. But as the previous poster says this could still change.
It will be good to have the Lincoln to Sheffield extended to Leeds again. Firstly to improve the service between Sheffield and Leeds and also to restore through journeys from Worksop with connections to/from the Robin Hood Line.

Last week I did a return journey from Hucknall (south of Mansfield) to Bradford and it took approx 3 and half hours in each direction. Hucknall to Leeds used to be an easy journey with just one change at Worksop but this time it was quicker to travel via Nottingham. Via Worksop and splitting tickets at Sheffield is normally quicker and less expensive. I really should have got the bus from my home to Alfreton and got the train from there instead

Currently the Lincoln train departs from Sheffield at xx54.
Trains from Leeds arrive in Sheffield at xx01, xx04, xx51 and xx56 which means a wait of up to 1 hour for a train towards Worksop.
I used the Leeds to Nottingham train and on my return journey on Saturday morning the 2 car 195 was overcrowded between Barnsley and Meadowhall and even worse from Alfreton, Langley Mill and Ilkeston into Nottingham. The additional train between Sheffield and Leeds will help between Barnsley and Meadowhall although leaving it until December is not going to help on busy Saturdays before then if the Leeds to Nottingham remains just 2 carriages.

Sheffield to Gainsborough Central is not returning in December. I wonder if there is any chance of that returning next May? It does allow the Lincoln trains to run fast between Sheffield and Worksop in addition to providing better connections at Worksop
 
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Jorge Da Silva

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It will be good to have the Lincoln to Sheffield extended to Leeds again. Firstly to improve the service between Sheffield and Leeds and also to restore through journeys from Worksop with connections to/from the Robin Hood Line.

Last week I did a return journey from Hucknall (south of Mansfield) to Bradford and it took approx 3 and half hours in each direction. Hucknall to Leeds used to be an easy journey with just one change at Worksop but this time it was quicker to travel via Nottingham. Via Worksop and splitting tickets at Sheffield is normally quicker and less expensive. I really should have got the bus from my home to Alfreton and got the train from there instead

Currently the Lincoln train departs from Sheffield at xx54.
Trains from Leeds arrive in Sheffield at xx01, xx04, xx51 and xx56 which means a wait of up to 1 hour for a train towards Worksop.
I used the Leeds to Nottingham train and on my return journey on Saturday morning the 2 car 195 was overcrowded between Barnsley and Meadowhall and even worse from Alfreton, Langley Mill and Ilkeston into Nottingham. The additional train between Sheffield and Leeds will help between Barnsley and Meadowhall although leaving it until December is not going to help on busy Saturdays before then if the Leeds to Nottingham remains just 2 carriages.

Sheffield to Gainsborough Central is not returning in December. I wonder if there is any chance of that returning next May? It does allow the Lincoln trains to run fast between Sheffield and Worksop in addition to providing better connections at Worksop

I think the Sheffield to Gainsborough service is currently a few services per day at the moment but it does exist during the weekdays.
 

JRT

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My main wish is the 10:19 Leeds to Morecambe.

Castleford - Huddersfield would be handy as well, but is less problematic for me.
10:18 Leeds–Morecambe and return returns, plus an additional 06:41 Leeds–Carnforth only (runs empty to Lancaster!).

The Huddersfield–Cas and Sheffield–Gainsboro’ Central continue to be peak only.
 

CAF397

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Wierdly RTT shows some Scarborough services in middle of day terminating at Stalybridge. Suprised they are terminating them at Victoria too, not an easy place to terminate long trains.
They arrive Victoria at xx49/xx50 and depart at xx00/xx01 so only in the platform 12 minutes maximum.

As for the Stalybridge terminators, I can only assume that is because of capacity at Victoria.
 

darloscott

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Shame to see TPE still haven't managed to fill the annoying 2 hour gap on an evening between Mbro/Redcar services. Means the trains back from Leeds and York are at 1814/2014 and 1839/2042 respectively. The one in the middle still terminates at York. I often find the 1915/1945 would be ideal for days out, where 6pm is too early to head home but 8pm is a little bit too late. Hey ho.
 

30907

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plus an additional 06:41 Leeds–Carnforth only (runs empty to Lancaster!).
Replaces the pre Covid 0719 and just gets you to Lancs for 0845 - which was IIRC always in the plan, so a good move. Returns at 0941.
 

David Bullock

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They arrive Victoria at xx49/xx50 and depart at xx00/xx01 so only in the platform 12 minutes maximum.

As for the Stalybridge terminators, I can only assume that is because of capacity at Victoria.
Anyone know why they aren’t going through to Liverpool?
 

DaveHarries

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XC appear to be rolling over there current timetable
I, for one, hope that they don't carry on with the present frequency south of Bristol: it makes my working life quite tricky at times. Also the last time I got a train from Plymouth to Bristol it was fairly packed which is not good for social distancing. I hope they go back to hourly between Bristol and Plymouth. Saying that I used the coach from Plymouth today due to the chaos with the bridge between Ivybridge and Plymouth: longer trip but the fare was cheaper.

On another note, where GWR are concerned, it is hoped, IIRC, that the works which have been taking place at Bristol Temple Meads for the last few weeks are intended to allow more trains to run. It has been suggested that the timetable between Severn Beach and Bristol Temple Meads might get a facelift in December to give a more frequent Monday to Saturday daytime service.

Dave
 
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HamworthyGoods

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Also the last time I got a train from Plymouth to Bristol it was fairly packed which is not good for social distancing

I didn’t think social distancing was a thing anymore - you sit next to someone else on a plane, you can stand next to someone in a club etc so why should way more seats than are actually needed be provided on a train? It costs quite a lot to cart fresh air around just to allow every passenger to have 2 seats
It has been suggested that the timetable between Severn Beach and Bristol Temple Meads might get a facelift in December to give a more frequent Monday to Saturday daytime service.

Severn Beach line goes half-hourly in December.
 

The exile

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I didn’t think social distancing was a thing anymore - you sit next to someone else on a plane, you can stand next to someone in a club etc so why should way more seats than are actually needed be provided on a train? It costs quite a lot to cart fresh air around just to allow every passenger to have 2 seats


Severn Beach line goes half-hourly in December.
It may not be legal requirement, but it is still a sensible precaution. The lack of it ( and mask wearing) is putting people off travelling by train - this is based on overheard comments, so completely unscientific!
 

Jorge Da Silva

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It may not be legal requirement, but it is still a sensible precaution. The lack of it ( and mask wearing) is putting people off travelling by train - this is based on overheard comments, so completely unscientific!

Not what the figures are saying. Numbers are going up week on week and the latest figures from the 23 August is around 66% of pre-pandemic levels (up from 62% the week prior)
 

Watershed

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Wierdly RTT shows some Scarborough services in middle of day terminating at Stalybridge.
No path to get to Victoria and back with a sufficient turnaround - unfortunately there are some additional freight paths in those hours which get in the way.

Suprised they are terminating them at Victoria too, not an easy place to terminate long trains.
With some retimings (it uses the path of the pre-Covid Manchester Airport-Newcastle service in the eastbound direction) it enables a 12 minute turnaround. Which is ideal for crewing efficiency and unit (set) availability, albeit not for reliability.
 

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