December 2022 Timetable Changes

[TheBigD]

As per the title, the changes that are planned for the December 2022 timetable change.

The big one should be the WCML rewrite, assuming that it is still going ahead.

Feel free to add and update the thread.

 

[Class 170101]

Castlefield Corridor as well?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Castlefield Corridor as well?

That’s gonna be a big one. Liverpool to Cleethorpes is coming then.

 

[nw1]

Is SWR still planning on going back to something vaguely resembling the normal 2004-19 timetable? (Albeit with things like one of the 4tph on the Portsmouth Direct missing, which seems odd given that off-peak travel is supposed to have recovered...)

 

[Harvey10]

I’m just hoping in Yorkshire Northern put the Sheffield to Doncaster stopper back to Half Hourly along with reinstating the Sheffield to York service

Also fingers crossed XC reintroduce their hourly Newcastle to Reading service via Doncaster

 

[Watershed]

Is SWR still planning on going back to something vaguely resembling the normal 2004-19 timetable? (Albeit with things like one of the 4tph on the Portsmouth Direct missing, which seems odd given that off-peak travel is supposed to have recovered...)

No, the current timetable is a permanent reduction. There was a consultation on it I believe (though like all "consultations", the outcome was largely decided before it was even published!).

 

[nw1]

No, the current timetable is a permanent reduction. There was a consultation on it I believe (though like all "consultations", the outcome was largely decided before it was even published!).

Not good. It's one thing withdrawing a few peak services until peak numbers pick up again, quite another thing to downsize the off-peak timetable.

What justification do they have for permanently reducing the frequency of off-peak services? It seems odd to disrupt the 15-min even interval service from Guildford, for instance. If they don't think there's off-peak demand for 4tph any more, they should work towards restoring something like the mid/late 1990s timetable, which had an even-interval 3tph Waterloo-Guildford.

Also, Farncombe 1tph off peak (with a fast making the call in the shoulder peak) currently; any plans to restore that? It's been 2tph since at least the 70s and possibly since the 30s, aside from small gaps in 1993-94 and (apparently) 1977.

Are there still plans to restore the Waterloo-Southampton semi-fast (the former xx39)? I thought there were last time I read the December changes.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Not good. It's one thing withdrawing a few peak services until peak numbers pick up again, quite another thing to downsize the off-peak timetable.

What justification do they have for permanently reducing the frequency of off-peak services? It seems odd to disrupt the 15-min even interval service from Guildford, for instance. If they don't think there's off-peak demand for 4tph any more, they should work towards restoring something like the mid/late 1990s timetable, which had an even-interval 3tph Waterloo-Guildford.

Also, Farncombe 1tph off peak (with a fast making the call in the shoulder peak) currently; any plans to restore that? It's been 2tph since at least the 70s and possibly since the 30s, aside from small gaps in 1993-94 and (apparently) 1977.

Are there still plans to restore the Waterloo-Southampton semi-fast (the former xx39)? I thought there were last time I read the December changes.

One thing SWR might be well-advised to do is cease running 3-car 159s on the West of England Line. Especially off-peak, as I often find the majority of trains are quite full East of Yeovil. I am not sure, however, if their stock availability would allow this.

 

[TEW]

No, the current timetable is a permanent reduction. There was a consultation on it I believe (though like all "consultations", the outcome was largely decided before it was even published!).

The consultation was on the December 2022 timetable which would see some increases to the service currently running, but I don't think any results of the consultation have been published yet.

 

[nw1]

The consultation was on the December 2022 timetable which would see some increases to the service currently running, but I don't think any results of the consultation have been published yet.

I'd have said "December 2022 should be the 2010s pattern, with maybe not all the peak extras running (for now)". But it looks like there will be other plans.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Will there be any changes on the Southern Metro from December 2022?

 

[JoeEcco]

What is the new December WCML 2022 timetable proposing? Is there any in depth information available to read. Thank you.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I’m just hoping in Yorkshire Northern put the Sheffield to Doncaster stopper back to Half Hourly along with reinstating the Sheffield to York service

Also fingers crossed XC reintroduce their hourly Newcastle to Reading service via Doncaster

The reinstatement of the three SO Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg services would also be welcome.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Huge rewrite of the Kent timetable for Dec 22 as well. Massive changes happening there.

Will there be any changes on the Southern Metro from December 2022?

The changes to Southern Metro are happening in September 2022.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

In September the Southern metro changes will it just be London overground stopping at stations via Forest Hill also will Beckenham Junction go back to half hourly?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

In September the Southern metro changes will it just be London overground stopping at stations via Forest Hill also will Beckenham Junction go back to half hourly?

Can't say yet, but the first part of what you say is not correct.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Sorry I was not sure

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Sorry I was not sure

No worries, sorry wasn't meant to be dismisive or anything. Apologies about the tone on that one.

 

[Some guy]

Hopefully the London-Birmingham-Glasgows return. It would be so useful to have that service back

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Huge rewrite of the Kent timetable for Dec 22 as well. Massive changes happening there.



The changes to Southern Metro are happening in September 2022.

Kent needed a re-write in time for May so that Crossrail was properly served by as many trains as possible from the Gravesend direction. They failed in that task, now to the detriment of passengers.

 

[DaveHarries]

I believe there were plans afoot, originally for the May 2022 changes, to increase the frequency between Bristol Temple Meads and Gloucester but I think these got pushed back to December '22 instead? A frequency increase between Gloucester and Worcester would also be quite welcome but I don't know if either will (or are planned to) go ahead.

Dave

 

[mm333]

The reinstatement of the three SO Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg services would also be welcome.

And the Scunthorpe-Doncaster hourly stopper (to replace the current two-hourly bus)

 

[brad465]

Huge rewrite of the Kent timetable for Dec 22 as well. Massive changes happening there.

Is anything known to be happening in Kent that can be disclosed? Hoping that the Maidstone East and Medway Valley lines get 2tph off peak again, where they're currently only hourly midweek but seem capable of doing 2tph on Saturdays.

 

[AJS90]

Any changes on the cards for WMR?

They should have cleared the training backlog and the 730’s should be coming online by December.

I’m aware of issues relating to the new Camp Hill Line service that will prevent the Cross City Line going back to 6tph, but they should be able to do 4tph to Lichfield City with one extra diagram.

Birmingham - Northampton will be dependent upon the WCML re-write.

Not sure how many other services will be going back to a (near enough) pre pandemic services.

 

[mcnw35282]

Can someone summarise the changes to trains from Liverpool Lime Street from December, please. AFAIUI...

• Crewe/Wilmslow trains will instead run to/from Manchester Airport
• Reintroduction of Warrington Bank Quay trains on Chat Moss route
• Withdrawal of semi fast Manchester Airport trains on CLC
• TPE trains to Scarborough will run to Hull instead
• Introduction of TPE trains to Cleethorpes via CLC (replacing part of withdrawn northern semi fast route between LIV and MIA (?))
• New TFW routes between Liverpool and Wales
• No noticeable changes to Liverpool to Wigan/Blackpool trains

 

[Llandudno]

Can someone summarise the changes to trains from Liverpool Lime Street from December, please. AFAIUI...

• Crewe/Wilmslow trains will instead run to/from Manchester Airport
• Reintroduction of Warrington Bank Quay trains on Chat Moss route
• Withdrawal of semi fast Manchester Airport trains on CLC
• TPE trains to Scarborough will run to Hull instead
• Introduction of TPE trains to Cleethorpes via CLC (replacing part of withdrawn northern semi fast route between LIV and MIA (?))
• New TFW routes between Liverpool and Wales
• No noticeable changes to Liverpool to Wigan/Blackpool trains

Liverpool to north Wales has been put back until December 2023, but knowing TfW it will be more likely to be May 2024!

 

[Toby268]

Any changes on the cards for WMR?

They should have cleared the training backlog and the 730’s should be coming online by December.

I’m aware of issues relating to the new Camp Hill Line service that will prevent the Cross City Line going back to 6tph, but they should be able to do 4tph to Lichfield City with one extra diagram.

Birmingham - Northampton will be dependent upon the WCML re-write.

Not sure how many other services will be going back to a (near enough) pre pandemic services.

The wcml re-write, any info of what this is and the plans?

 

[JonathanH]

The wcml re-write, any info of what this is and the plans?

It is described as not finished yet and therefore not in the public domain but some elements of proposed changes from December 2022 under the recast have been discussed in other threads, for example having 2tph fast Avanti services to Birmingham and one that does all of Watford / Milton Keynes / Rugby. Basically a full review of the timetable that has been in place since December 2008 to address stakeholder requirements.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/avanti-west-coast-timetable.226709/page-11#post-5637222

 

[scrapy]

Can someone summarise the changes to trains from Liverpool Lime Street from December, please. AFAIUI...

• Crewe/Wilmslow trains will instead run to/from Manchester Airport
• Reintroduction of Warrington Bank Quay trains on Chat Moss route
• Withdrawal of semi fast Manchester Airport trains on CLC
• TPE trains to Scarborough will run to Hull instead
• Introduction of TPE trains to Cleethorpes via CLC (replacing part of withdrawn northern semi fast route between LIV and MIA (?))
• New TFW routes between Liverpool and Wales
• No noticeable changes to Liverpool to Wigan/Blackpool trains

The Wigan stopper is supposed to be going back to 2ph

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I believe there were plans afoot, originally for the May 2022 changes, to increase the frequency between Bristol Temple Meads and Gloucester but I think these got pushed back to December '22 instead? A frequency increase between Gloucester and Worcester would also be quite welcome but I don't know if either will (or are planned to) go ahead.

Dave

Will probably get deferred again unless there is serious progress with getting the 769s into traffic and the Reading 165s released and through the refurbishment programme.