December 2022 Timetable Changes

[The exile]

They are due to extend at due course to the new station at Henbury.

The 2nd local service per hour to Bristol Parkway will in due course be provided by the additional Bristol to Gloucester services.

But until “in due course” actually transpires, can we have them back - since the official reason they were cut back no longer exists.

 

[CharlesR]

But until “in due course” actually transpires, can we have them back - since the official reason they were cut back no longer exists.

But "in due course" in this case is supposed to be December, subject to rolling stock and crew availability

 

[nw1]

Depends how you price it. Charge a premium in terms of the advance fares and then people would choose between cost and time.

In reality the more pragmatic solution is to find a way to enhance the semi-fast services to Exeter to fill some of the gaps that way you could take out some of the Taunton and Tiverton calls without leaving 90 minute gaps in the service from London, it’s not unreasonable for the county town of Somerset to expect an hourly service to London but that doesn’t necessarily have to be provided by Penzance services.

Totnes is a difficult one the catchment area is so big, demand has grown considerably and both GWR and XC have tapped into that by giving a regular near on hourly service.

With the caveat that I am not a local, could they call at Taunton but not the other stops? i.e. Reading-Taunton-Exeter-Plymouth?

 

[The exile]

But "in due course" in this case is supposed to be December, subject to rolling stock and crew availability

Fair enough - though I’ve also seen reports that the doubling of Gloucester stoppers has been kicked into the long grass.

 

[CharlesR]

Fair enough - though I’ve also seen reports that the doubling of Gloucester stoppers has been kicked into the long grass.

As far as I know it's happening as soon as possible - and is supposed to happen in December (having previously been stated at May). However we are all aware of the trouble 769s are causing with the turbo cascade programme so who knows when...

 

[Esker-pades]

Putting the Didcot trains on the mains should block off the mains enough so that the proposed Grand Union paths don’t work. Neat.

No, there's a plan with both included.

 

[anthony263]

No, there's a plan with both included.

I be glad to see grand union but of competition will probably help both operators. Coach services from South Wales between the three big operators are extremely well used

 

[irish_rail]

With the caveat that I am not a local, could they call at Taunton but not the other stops? i.e. Reading-Taunton-Exeter-Plymouth?

Taunton anecdotally doesn't seem the busiest these days. Id say a few trains a day could comfortably avoid it (this used to be the case until 2019). Reading, Exeter, Plymouth makes most sense in my view for a few "premium" trains a day.

 

[Bikeman78]

Do passengers between Wolverhampton and Birmingham target XC trains or just catch the first one going in the right direction?

It's unfortunate that all the fast trains from BHM to WVH are in one half hour and the first train after the 30 minute gap is the Crosscountry. Recently I watched a four car depart on such a train. Not a pretty sight.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Taunton anecdotally doesn't seem the busiest these days. Id say a few trains a day could comfortably avoid it (this used to be the case until 2019). Reading, Exeter, Plymouth makes most sense in my view for a few "premium" trains a day.

However it is not unreasonably to expect a town of Taunton’s size (population 65k) to have an hourly service to London. Similar to Loughborough (68k), Macclesfield (51k), Yeovil (45k) etc. There are smaller places which have more than an hourly service.

You would struggle to get the agreed service level changes reduced at consultation. The solution is to look at trying to enhance the Semi-fast service to fill in the gaps. It would be hard to argue to Somerset County Council that nearby Yeovil with a population only 2/3s that of Taunton and a similar distance to London deserves an hourly London service and Taunton doesn’t!

 

[irish_rail]

However it is not unreasonably to expect a town of Taunton’s size (population 65k) to have an hourly service to London. Similar to Loughborough (68k), Macclesfield (51k), Yeovil (45k) etc. There are smaller places which have more than an hourly service.

You would struggle to get the agreed service level changes reduced at consultation. The solution is to look at trying to enhance the Semi-fast service to fill in the gaps. It would be hard to argue to Somerset County Council that nearby Yeovil with a population only 2/3s that of Taunton and a similar distance to London deserves an hourly London service and Taunton doesn’t!

I agree, id still ensure Taunton got hourly to London as like you say the semi fasts take up the slack so that Taunton would still be more or less hourly to and from London.

 

[30907]

I agree, id still ensure Taunton got hourly to London as like you say the semi fasts take up the slack so that Taunton would still be more or less hourly to and from London.

Short of making the semifasts hourly it is difficult to construct a timetable that doesn't leave some stations with a 30/90min interval service, which I imagine would go down like the proverbial lead balloon.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Short of making the semifasts hourly it is difficult to construct a timetable that doesn't leave some stations with a 30/90min interval service, which I imagine would go down like the proverbial lead balloon.

Hence my comment the only way really to get the Taunton stops out some of the current West of England ‘fast’ trains is to enhance the semi-fast service so you can do that without creating those 90 minute gaps. Removing stops at Taunton otherwise simply isn’t going to happen. You just aren’t going to sell to Somerset folk that smaller Yeovil gets an hourly service but bigger Taunton is okay with 90 minute gaps. Yes it used to happen in the past but that is a long time ago now and would be taking away something which now exists.

 

[Kent99]

The proposed changes to services between BHM and SGB as a whole are a joke. Like it or not, Smethwick Galton Bridge is a very useful interchange station. Why does Sandwell and Dudley require 2 services per hour to International, but SGB doesn’t get at least one.

They’ve sneakily also proposed removing the Liverpool - Birmingham calls from Smethwick Galton Bridge, and replaced it with a paltry Birmingham to Shrewsbury all shacks service.

So basically all mid/north wales direct connections will no longer be available, and to get to anywhere past WVH on that side of the WCML will require a change. I can’t see any of this going down well, and I would be willing to go to consultations and even protest to stop this from happening. It’s nothing short of a farce

Agreed. Smethwick Galton Bridge slowly losing its usefulness as an interchange between snow hill lines / other lines. For stations like Rowley/Cradley Heath/Kidderminster, SGB was extremely useful

 

[animationmilo]

Anyone know what heart of wales timetable looks like for December yet
What is the late trains and that 5th train

 

[jfollows]

Agreed. Smethwick Galton Bridge slowly losing its usefulness as an interchange between snow hill lines / other lines. For stations like Rowley/Cradley Heath/Kidderminster, SGB was extremely useful

I'm also in agreement; I've used Smethwick Galton Bridge as an interchange both for Snow Hill and for Kidderminster coming from Crewe and Wilmslow.

 

[Esker-pades]

Anyone know what heart of wales timetable looks like for December yet
What is the late trains and that 5th train

It will be 5 through plus early/lates. Not yet released to the public and there's still bits of post-offer tinkering to be done.

 

[Llandudno]

Does anyone know if the following trains are due to be retimed in December?

2121 Crewe to Derby due in Derby at 2232

2234 Matlock to Derby

I was wondering if the Longport stop was going to be omitted which hopefully would mean that the 2121 Ex Crewe would arrive in Derby a few minutes sooner and provide an official connection at Derby onto the last Matlock train.

Is the current minimum connection time at Derby 5 minutes?

 

[30907]

Does anyone know if the following trains are due to be retimed in December?

2121 Crewe to Derby due in Derby at 2232

2234 Derby to Matlock

I was wondering if the Longport stop was going to be omitted which hopefully would mean that the 2121 Ex Crewe would arrive in Derby a few minutes sooner and provide an official connection at Derby onto the last Matlock train.

Is it likely that the last train from Crewe to Longport would be cancelled (seems improbable), and if so would there be an alternative platform available at Derby (pass)?

 

[DelW]

It will be 5 through plus early/lates. Not yet released to the public and there's still bits of post-offer tinkering to be done.

Can you say whether there's likely to be any improvement on the two each way on Sundays?

 

[animationmilo]

Can you say whether there's likely to be any improvement on the two each way on Sundays?

Rumour has it

Sundays - by 2023 there will be 2 trains per day along the length of the line in each direction, plus a short working between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury, and a short working between Llandovery and Swansea.

 

[DelW]

Rumour has it

Sundays - by 2023 there will be 2 trains per day along the length of the line in each direction, plus a short working between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury, and a short working between Llandovery and Swansea.

Thanks for that - unfortunately I'd be going to Llanwrtyd, so the possible extras won't help.

 

[pompeyfan]

The plan is Farncombe goes back to 2tph

But that adds an extra train between Haslemere and Portsmouth, which adds cost on a line that is bringing in nowhere near the revenue it used to, the peak travel demand providing the crew (and revenue) to run the off-peak service previously. That high volume of first class annual gold cards from Haslemere has gone and unlikely to return any time soon.

I understand the December 22 plan is an improvement to restore a half-hourly service to Portsmouth which the xx30 as now, the xx45 terminating at Haslemere and the xx00 as now to Guildford, then Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere and all to Portsmouth.

It’s better spacing for Portsmouth than the current xx30/xx45 but doesn’t increase the cost base on the line as just effectively swaps the 1P and 2P paths at Haslemere.

Out of interest, how does this work in the up direction? I assume the stopper (Bedhampton, Rowlands etc) will run in the xx:15 path off Portsmouth Harbour, but that then means the Haslemere shuttle will be right on its tail from Haslemere, so you’d end up with 2 within 6 minutes from Farncombe in the up?

This would also mean the loss of direct Clapham - Portsmouth (SWR) during the day?

Are there any other changes to the long distance services?

Also why does the timetable always change last minute on Fridays in the Portsmouth area currently?

 

[Busaholic]

Taunton anecdotally doesn't seem the busiest these days. Id say a few trains a day could comfortably avoid it (this used to be the case until 2019). Reading, Exeter, Plymouth makes most sense in my view for a few "premium" trains a day.

When a few trains per day were routed via Bristol to London they were reasonably well used by Taunton passengers, many just on that local section. It does suggest the lure of Reading or London is not so great for Somerset folk as it is for Devon and Cornwall passengers.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Out of interest, how does this work in the up direction? I assume the stopper (Bedhampton, Rowlands etc) will run in the xx:15 path off Portsmouth Harbour, but that then means the Haslemere shuttle will be right on its tail from Haslemere, so you’d end up with 2 within 6 minutes from Farncombe in the up?

Plans I saw had the ‘semi-fast’ running up earlier from Portsmouth to still match the current Haslemere departure time.

Also why does the timetable always change last minute on Fridays in the Portsmouth area currently?

To provide access for Network Rail to patrol Portcreek Junction until a less disruptive solution can be found.

This would also mean the loss of direct Clapham - Portsmouth (SWR) during the day?

Journey time on the remaining direct Portsmouth to Clapham service via Horsham is almost identical timewise to the via Guildford service. In fact down via Horsham is quicker then via Haslemere.

 

[pompeyfan]

Plans I saw had the ‘semi-fast’ running up earlier from Portsmouth to still match the current Haslemere departure time.

I’m sure there’s a path in there somewhere but that is right in a flight of other services, you’ve got the Littlehampton, the Victoria and the Brighton (ex Southampton) to thread into.

To provide access for Network Rail to patrol Portcreek Junction until a less disruptive solution can be found.

That seems really poor from a passenger point of view, the trains in question just disappear from journey planners, sometimes with leas than 24 hours notice

Journey time on the remaining direct Portsmouth to Clapham service via Horsham is almost identical timewise to the via Guildford service. In fact down via Horsham is quicker then via Haslemere.

I hadn’t actually done a end to end calculation but I didn’t realise the journey was roughly the same, so the only real loser is stations Haslemere - Havant.

Will we see the reinstatement of Salisbury stoppers? I also understand the passengers of Fleet have got their way with extra calls on Weymouth services?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I’m sure there’s a path in there somewhere but that is right in a flight of other services, you’ve got the Littlehampton, the Victoria and the Brighton (ex Southampton) to thread into.


That seems really poor from a passenger point of view, the trains in question just disappear from journey planners, sometimes with leas than 24 hours notice



I hadn’t actually done a end to end calculation but I didn’t realise the journey was roughly the same, so the only real loser is stations Haslemere - Havant.

Will we see the reinstatement of Salisbury stoppers? I also understand the passengers of Fleet have got their way with extra calls on Weymouth services?

Not seen the final version but I understand Fleet calls will be made by the Portsmouth via Eastleigh services in addition to the existing Farnborough call.

As I understand from the statement issued by SWR as part of the annual business plan agreed with DfT there’s no extra services due to lack of revenue bounce back just tweaks to existing services which both of the above changes would fit with.

That seems really poor from a passenger point of view, the trains in question just disappear from journey planners, sometimes with leas than 24 hours notice

Hopefully before long NR will find a way of having a better solution than doing the patrolling via control arrangements.

 

[TEW]

That seems really poor from a passenger point of view, the trains in question just disappear from journey planners, sometimes with leas than 24 hours notice

It's disappointing because it's been going on for so long now that I'm sure it could have been implemented in the LTP timetable.

 

[OliverH68]

Some elements of Dec '22 now trickling through to RTT.

At the time of writing, GTR, Crossrail, Northern & Scotrail are available.

 

[JonathanH]

Some elements of Dec '22 now trickling through to RTT.

Crossrail

Interesting stuff - showing trains from Abbey Wood through to Heathrow, Reading and Maidenhead.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Abbey Wood between 0200 and 0159 on 12/12/2022

Train information at Abbey Wood between 0200 and 0159 on 12/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Iver and Taplow only get a half hourly off-peak service - Iver in the Maidenhead services and Taplow in the Reading services. Canary Wharf to Maidenhead takes about 60 minutes.

GTR

Some interesting changes on the Redhill corridor.

The Gatwick Airport to Bedford trains pick up a South Croydon stop all day and also run through to Three Bridges.

These trains lose their Merstham stop in the morning peak but continue to stop at Coulsdon South. The Earlswood and Salfords stops are transferred to this service from the Peterborough train.

The Reigate departures move earlier and form the front portion of the Victoria trains in the morning peak with the portion from Gatwick joining the rear at Redhill.