December 2023 Timetable Change

[Iskra]

If I was a betting man I would be expecting massive cutbacks in TPE schedules, especially at what they think is "Off Peak".

TPE should be introducing their new Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield-Castleford-York service in the December timetable.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And there’s no plan to do so!

Although there’s many discussions to be had now on now NR fulfils it’s licence agreement inline with Part D of the Network Code with regard to contracted timescales.

NR faces a huge risk of some operators (especially freight) bidding at Network Code timescales and a dispute being raised when they aren’t offered in line with the Network Code, the ORR having made clear that until it is changed Part D timescales apply.

 

[The Planner]

And there’s no plan to do so!

I know that, you know that, but people still seem to think we are going back to it.

Although there’s many discussions to be had now on now NR fulfils it’s licence agreement inline with Part D of the Network Code with regard to contracted timescales.

NR faces a huge risk of some operators (especially freight) bidding at Network Code timescales and a dispute being raised when they aren’t offered in line with the Network Code, the ORR having made clear that until it is changed Part D timescales apply.

Freight have always been bidding at T18 but they know they arent going to be offered back at T12

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I know that, you know that, but people still seem to think we are going back to it.

Depends how much enforcement there is from the ORR… This could get very legalistic as technically Network Rail isn’t full filling it’s license.

 

[HST43257]

Given the 12 weeks target, are we expecting to get nearly all info by 17th September?

 

[The Planner]

Depends how much enforcement there is from the ORR… This could get very legalistic as technically Network Rail isn’t full filling it’s license.

They have yet to get legalistic over various scenarios where NR don't fulfil its licence. Can't see it changing.

Given the 12 weeks target, are we expecting to get nearly all info by 17th September?

For what? The WTT? 12 weeks doesnt apply to the LTP offer.

 

[London Trains]

Any information available on changes to GTR (apart from changes on the Redhill to Tonbridge line) or SWR yet?

 

[JonathanH]

Any information available on changes to GTR (apart from changes on the Redhill to Tonbridge line) or SWR yet?

The potential changes on the West Coastway have been discussed in other threads, which would affect both GTR and, to a lesser extent, SWR.

 

[London Trains]

The potential changes on the West Coastway have been discussed in other threads, which would affect both GTR and, to a lesser extent, SWR.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those changes were going to take place in 2024, not in Dec 2023.

 

[OneOfThe48]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those changes were going to take place in 2024, not in Dec 2023.

Yep, their website suggests next year for those

 

[JonathanH]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those changes were going to take place in 2024, not in Dec 2023.

Ah yes, so it seems. Sorry.

When would these changes be introduced?

Subject to feedback and if the proposals are taken forward, they could be introduced from 2024, date to be confirmed.

 

[duffield]

Hopefully the missing regional services for EMR will return. Then I may be able to go to and from work on the train again.

Apart from the reduced frequency on the Robin Hood line, which other EMR services are still missing?

 

[dk1]

Apart from the reduced frequency on the Robin Hood line, which other EMR services are still missing?

12:51 Liverpool-Norwich still terminates Nottingham & 18:55 Norwich-Nottingham doesn't run.

 

[156421]

Apart from the reduced frequency on the Robin Hood line, which other EMR services are still missing?

06:40 (which I think may have become 06:41 and then 06:43 thanks to being stitched in with the Newark to Nottingham to Derby services) Derby to Crewe was often full with commuters/college kids. Never reinstated.

 

[geoffk]

TPE should be introducing their new Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield-Castleford-York service in the December timetable.

Will they have enough drivers?

 

[156421]

Will they have enough drivers?

May explain the rumored cancellations on other TPE routes, to free up drivers perhaps?

 

[43055]

Apart from the reduced frequency on the Robin Hood line, which other EMR services are still missing?

1 of the 5 diagrams are still missing on the Crewe - Newark service. Which include the first westbound service in the morning and the peak 1648 off Derby which was regularly full.

 

[156421]

1 of the 5 diagrams are still missing on the Crewe - Newark service. Which include the first westbound service in the morning and the peak 1648 off Derby which was regularly full.

That confirms what I said in #44 (didn't know about the number of diagrams) plus explains random 2 hours gaps in service at times.

 

[Liverpool 507]

08:51 Liverpool - Norwich hasn’t ran since before covid.

Apart from the reduced frequency on the Robin Hood line, which other EMR services are still missing?

12:51 Liverpool-Norwich still terminates Nottingham & 18:55 Norwich-Nottingham doesn't run.

 

[dk1]

08:51 Liverpool - Norwich hasn’t ran since before covid.

I think that operates between Nottingham & Norwich

 

[Iskra]

Will they have enough drivers?

They will have to for that route at least- it’s going to be the diversionary route for Transpennine Upgrade works between Leeds and York.

 

[800001]

For retailing, 12 weeks ahead is both the LTP and STP target for reservations and for advance purchase tickets.; and has been for 20 years or more.

That LNER is being released this week is not just because they happen to be ahead of the game but was a deliberate action by the TOC.

How is it deliberate? LNER regularly release advance purchase tickets 20 weeks in advance, with advice to customers that any changes to the time of their train, or it doesn’t run will be clearly communicated to them. So this is no different to what they do now week in and week out.

For info big LNER timetable change is now planned for Dec 2024 and is currently be worked on, although the DFT are very keen for it to commence May 2024!

 

[Adsy125]

For info big LNER timetable change is now planned for Dec 2024 and is currently be worked on, although the DFT are very keen for it to commence May 2024!

How bad are the service cuts then??

 

[Benjwri]

How bad are the service cuts then??

Isn’t this this expansion that was meant to come in 2022? I would presume they want it earlier because of the General Election

 

[dk1]

How bad are the service cuts then??

Thought it was the other way round.

 

[800001]

How bad are the service cuts then??

There isn’t?
Extra services are the plan!

 

[The Planner]

May 24 will be June.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

TPE should be introducing their new Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield-Castleford-York service in the December timetable.

The current rumour mill does not see that service introduced in December.

I hear that there will be a Huddersfield to Castleford service at peak times only, 2 journeys in a morning and 2 in an afternoon. They will be operated as an extension of the Manchester to Huddersfield stopper and it sounds like they will simply replace the Northern bus service which similarly has only 2 journeys in a morning and afternoon.

Having said that, I am not aware that any drivers or guards, save perhaps the odd one or two, sign the bit of traingle direct between Altofts and Whitwood Junctions, which would be necessary.

Elsewhere, current rumours suggest that there will be only 2 express TPE trains per hour between Leeds and Manchester at "Off Peak" times.

 

[TheBigD]

There isn’t?
Extra services are the plan!

Still LNER 6tph?
And still...
2 x Edinburgh
1 x Newcastle
2 x Leeds (2 hourly to Harrogate)
0.5 x Lincoln
0.5 x York
...or something different planned?

 

[transmanche]

From my armchair CEO perspective I actually worked our what TPEx needed to deliver the current timetable. They would need 16 class 802 diagrams to run all Liverpool - Newcastle, Liverpool - Hull and Man Picc - Newcastle but have 19 so enough for maintenance and spares.

But no provision for services north of Newcastle? (I think at the moment they schedule five Newcastle-Edinburgh 'shuttles' per day.)

Is that your suggestion to improve service reliability? Or is ditching north of Newcastle a TPE aspiration?