December 2024 timetable change

[The exile]

Are there sufficient drivers and guards to crew them…?

Is there any point reopening the Northumberland Line if Northern can’t provide enough train crew to run existing services without adding further strain on their staffing resources…?

Sure we were told at least a year ago that recruitment of the extra crew needed was well under way. How much is the North East affected by the shortages - Northern's a very widespread operation.....

 

[dk1]

Are there sufficient drivers and guards to crew them…?

Is there any point reopening the Northumberland Line if Northern can’t provide enough train crew to run existing services without adding further strain on their staffing resources…?

It's mainly Northern's Western operation that suffers. Eastern side are on different conditions so suffer much less.

 

[Harvey B]

Looks like there's specific training runs for Donny drivers on 333s as well.

When will these runs be taking place?

I thought that Donny Drivers were trained on the 333s over the summer?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/december_2024_unit_diagrams/response/2816952/attach/2/Dec%2024%20Unit%20diagrams%20SX%20DRAFT.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Here's an interesting Diagram for the 333's

DIAGRAM: NL 255 SX 333/0 LTP Runs From: 30/12/2024Until: 16/05/2025
WolvertoE MTCE

MILES: (LD) 0:00 (ETY) 0:00 (TOT) 0:00

Does anyone know what this means? Does this mean that the 333s are going to Wolverton for Tfx works?

 

[185]

It's mainly Northern's Western operation that suffers. Eastern side are on different conditions so suffer much less.

A temporary fix - a rolling 3 month solution for those on western aka FNW conditions was suggested to Mr Burnham last week (Sundays at time+50%, minimum 9 hrs). Just awaiting his reply.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Should the trains be put in the timetable so they could be Cancelled due to Staff Shortage?

That should have occurred in December 2014! Let alone December 2024!

 

[dk1]

A temporary fix - a rolling 3 month solution for those on western aka FNW conditions was suggested to Mr Burnham last week (Sundays at time+50%, minimum 9 hrs). Just awaiting his reply.

I did hear a new RDW agreement with a very enticing rate of pay has been agreed. Great news if true.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I don't know about the West, but on the East we've just had granted 1¾ time, minimum of ten hours pay.

 

[87015]

Here's an interesting Diagram for the 333's

Does anyone know what this means? Does this mean that the 333s are going to Wolverton for Tfx works?

Maybe, maybe not. Might just be the location they use for units not counted for depot numbers or similar. We've had units shown as stabled at Aachen, they weren't there in reality, but its a nice easy and clear location to select.

 

[185]

That should have occurred in December 2014! Let alone December 2024!

2004 actually. At the point Firstgroup were kicked off the Northern (West) franchise, that nonsense 2002 pay deal put through favoured the most senior union reps who didn't do overtime, nor rest day work, rarely sold tickets and rarely worked trains - ie only interested in the basic salary being higher and happy to put decades of protective working conditions staff relied upon into the bin - eg "first hour of overtime unpaid" - absolute nonsense conditions just led to even bigger disruption. The finance boss directly responsible was Vernon the accountant, latterly MD of TPE.

 

[dk1]

I don't know about the West, but on the East we've just had granted 1¾ time, minimum of ten hours pay.

That is good news. We'll done on that decent agreement.

 

[Furton]

Is the second hourly service between Liverpool and Euston starting in December? Is this the one that should be calling in Liverpool South Parkway?

 

[jfollows]

Is the second hourly service between Liverpool and Euston starting in December? Is this the one that should be calling in Liverpool South Parkway?

No.
Post 297 (and subsequent discussion) above - there are additional services but not every hour.
https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/prvdec2024/ contains a provisional timetable.
https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nr...ancaster, Carlisle, Edinburgh and Glasgow.pdf for WCML, for example.

 

[hexagon789]

Is the second hourly service between Liverpool and Euston starting in December? Is this the one that should be calling in Liverpool South Parkway?

The current path is the one the Parkway calls are to go in.

 

[swt_passenger]

A temporary fix - a rolling 3 month solution for those on western aka FNW conditions was suggested to Mr Burnham last week (Sundays at time+50%, minimum 9 hrs). Just awaiting his reply.

Is Burnham able to directly fund the TOC? Or is he suggesting DfT pay this?

 

[185]

Is Burnham able to directly fund the TOC? Or is he suggesting DfT pay this?

It's quite obvious how politically close Burnham is to Haigh... if he makes a suggestion, I don't doubt she'll go with it.

The eastern side has just reached a deal. Just the west left now.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's quite obvious how politically close Burnham is to Haigh... if he makes a suggestion, I don't doubt she'll go with it.

I bet they’re hardly ever off the fax machine phone…

 

[185]

I bet they’re hardly ever off the fax machine phone…

lol, they ain't the only firm using fax. If it works, why not... stupid emails get missed or 'fail to send' 'inbox full' etc.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

GWR’s timetables from December are now live on their website.

 

[43055]

Same with Cross Country

 

[weeklycommuter]

According to page 3 of Railfuture's Six Shires Rail October 2024 Cross Country Stansted Airport – Leicester – Birmingham, and Nottingham – Birmingham – Cardiff services will be standard class only from the start of the new timetable on 15 December. I assume this means the nine first class seats on the three car class 170 trains will become standard class seats so all 200 seats on these class 170 Cross Country trains will be standard class. This is confirmed by the following references to Cross Country services on 16 December in Real Time Trains.

https://www.railfuture.org.uk/display3856

"Cross-Country Trains is to remove first class seats from its Class 170 units used on the Stansted Airport – Leicester – Birmingham, and Nottingham – Birmingham – Cardiff routes from the introduction of the new timetable on 15 December. Hopefully this will help to reduce overcrowding on these frequently very busy services."

Realtime Trains | 1V07 1007 Nottingham to Cardiff Central | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1V07 1007 departure from Nottingham to Cardiff Central on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1N49 0921 Stansted Airport to Birmingham New Street | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1N49 0921 departure from Stansted Airport to Birmingham New Street on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[A S Leib]

According to page 3 of Railfuture's Six Shires Rail October 2024 Cross Country Stansted Airport – Leicester – Birmingham, and Nottingham – Birmingham – Cardiff services will be standard class only from the start of the new timetable on 15 December. I assume this means the nine first class seats on the three car class 170 trains will become standard class seats so all 200 seats on these class 170 Cross Country trains will be standard class. This is confirmed by the following references to Cross Country services on 16 December in Real Time Trains.

I know that people's definitions of intercity vary, but would it be fair to say that the only non-IC, or at the very least semifast like TPE's South Route, services with First Class remaining are on GTR (except Moorgate – Welwyn / Hertford and possibly some other shorter routes) and South Western?

 

[duffield]

According to page 3 of Railfuture's Six Shires Rail October 2024 Cross Country Stansted Airport – Leicester – Birmingham, and Nottingham – Birmingham – Cardiff services will be standard class only from the start of the new timetable on 15 December. I assume this means the nine first class seats on the three car class 170 trains will become standard class seats so all 200 seats on these class 170 Cross Country trains will be standard class. This is confirmed by the following references to Cross Country services on 16 December in Real Time Trains.

Given that on overcrowded services standard class passengers already ignore the 1st designation and fill up the tiny 1st compartment, and it's virtually never enforced on services like that, I can't see this will make any significant difference whatsoever.

If they actually replace the seats eventually (seems clear they're not doing that initially) I believe they can potentially squeeze in a whole *five* extra standard seats.

Woohoo.

 

[The exile]

I know that people's definitions of intercity vary, but would it be fair to say that the only non-IC, or at the very least semifast like TPE's South Route, services with First Class remaining are on GTR (except Moorgate – Welwyn / Hertford and possibly some other shorter routes) and South Western?

Any GWR locals operated with IETs.

 

[GW43125]

Any GWR locals operated with IETs.

What about the 166s on the locals and North Downs, is it still enforced?

 

[DDB]

According to page 3 of Railfuture's Six Shires Rail October 2024 Cross Country Stansted Airport – Leicester – Birmingham, and Nottingham – Birmingham – Cardiff services will be standard class only from the start of the new timetable on 15 December. I assume this means the nine first class seats on the three car class 170 trains will become standard class seats so all 200 seats on these class 170 Cross Country trains will be standard class. This is confirmed by the following references to Cross Country services on 16 December in Real Time Trains.

Presumably that means there ought to be some removal of first class fares from the database?
E.g. Derby Nottingham.

 

[GW43125]

Presumably that means there ought to be some removal of first class fares from the database?
E.g. Derby Nottingham.

Is such a fare valid via East Mids Parkway? if so it would allow use of the 222s which do carry first class.

 

[DDB]

Is such a fare valid via East Mids Parkway? if so it would allow use of the 222s which do carry first class.

It would be but that means it should be priced by EMR going forward. I can't imagine anyone doing that though as you wouldn't get long to drink your complimentary tea!

 

[LUYMun]

What about the 166s on the locals and North Downs, is it still enforced?

For the North Downs, I'm told that 'stopping' services have 1st declassified yet 'fast' (skipping half of the Wokingham-Guildford stations and some alternate calls) are maintained. Personal observations from a short trip on Monday noted the fast trains having the 1st class doors working as usual but left fully open on the stoppers.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Presumably that means there ought to be some removal of first class fares from the database?
E.g. Derby Nottingham.

First class fares between Ely and Peterborough are not available from Sunday 15 December. The Greater Anglia and East Midlands train services between Ely and Peterborough (Ipswich to Peterborough and Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street) are already standard class only.

 

[fgwrich]

Apologies but as this thread is now over 19 pages and 570 posts long - is there, and what changes are due for us on the South Western?