Deceptive advertising by CrossCountry

[YorkshireBear]

I think that the issue is that it's XC doing it, and some people don't like XC because they don't offer loads of dirt-cheap advanced tickets (for the simple reason that they don't have spare capacity on their services to do so), so nothing that XC do will be right in some people's eyes (even when its promoting other TOCs).

Maybe that's just me?

No i agree, its a common physcological tendancy. Bad things are much easier to find faults in, and it works the other way around obviously too.

I dont think there is any problem with this at all. I have regularly bought tickets on FTPE, where it is FTPE one way and EC other way. Or vice versa. And this is the same to me.

 

[Minilad]

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't XC can't win on here with all the ticket nerds

 

[All Line Rover]

Northern's website does exactly the same thing, just visited it now and they're advertising:

Halifax-Newcastle £14
Harrogate-London £31
Glossop-London £13.50
Blackburn-Glasgow £16

Now I'd guess that none of these are Northern priced, some will also be possible without travelling on a Northern train too.

No different to XC (other than using obscure routes I suppose), I can't really see the issue here to be honest.

Those journeys all involve travelling with TOC's other than Northern. Quite obvious when you see "London," "Glasgow," etc... I have no issue with it.

In the case of XC, all of the journeys mentioned can be made solely on their network. The Leeds to York one, being via an obscure via point, I find particularly misleading, as people would expect to travel via the XC route. Virgin don't advertise £211.50 Manchester to London SOR's on their website, only for people to find out on further inspection that this involves travelling via Sheffield, as this isn't what customers expect. (Obviously I'd have no issue with Virgin actually doing this, but only if they make it obvious that the ticket involves travelling via Sheffield! Even though they never will do this because it could lead to revenue abstraction).

I appreciate that people have differing views on this, but I find the context of the advertisement is what makes the details misleading, and I have never seen another TOC do this. If XC wanted to make it obvious that not all of the fares involve travelling solely on their network, why didn't they include fares such as Birmingham to London?

 

[bnm]

If you really do find it misleading ALR then why not complain to the ASA?

I'd be interested to see their response, although it will, most likely, be that no laws, statutory rules or ASA codes of conduct have been broken.

Sometimes XC bashing* is warranted. Not in this case though.


*Before a fellow pedant comes along.... I don't mean in the rail enthusiast sense.

 

[tbtc]

Those journeys all involve travelling with TOC's other than Northern. Quite obvious when you see "London," "Glasgow," etc... I have no issue with it.

In the case of XC, all of the journeys mentioned can be made solely on their network. The Leeds to York one, being via an obscure via point, I find particularly misleading, as people would expect to travel via the XC route. Virgin don't advertise £211.50 Manchester to London SOR's on their website, only for people to find out on further inspection that this involves travelling via Sheffield, as this isn't what customers expect. (Obviously I'd have no issue with Virgin actually doing this, but only if they make it obvious that the ticket involves travelling via Sheffield! Even though they never will do this because it could lead to revenue abstraction).

I appreciate that people have differing views on this, but I find the context of the advertisement is what makes the details misleading, and I have never seen another TOC do this. If XC wanted to make it obvious that not all of the fares involve travelling solely on their network, why didn't they include fares such as Birmingham to London?

So its okay when Northern do it, but bad for nasty old XC?

You really need to separate "XC the website" (which is trying to be a one stop shop for all train travel in the UK) and "XC the TOC". As I said previously, sometimes Tesco will promote products that aren't "Tesco own brand", why are XC not allowed to promote tickets run by other TOCs? Because the same XC-haters would be swift to damn them were they promoting XC fares on routes where a cheaper alternative existed...

 

[All Line Rover]

So its okay when Northern do it, but bad for nasty old XC?

Northern are doing something completely different - they are advertising tickets for journeys all over the UK.

XC are advertising tickets to/from stations on their own network - which logically would involve travelling with XC - but via obscure via points or with different TOC's. That is what is misleading. Like I've already said, Virgin wouldn't advertise a Manchester to London ticket on their homepage only for customers to find out later that it is a "Route Chesterfield" ticket, as customers would find this misleading. XC are doing exactly that with the Leeds to York "Route Harrogate" ticket. And for XC to promote a FGW Advance ticket (without any mention of it being a FGW ticket) is like Virgin promoting an LM Advance ticket for Birmingham to London (without any mention of it being an LM ticket). They wouldn't do it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because the same XC-haters would be swift to damn them were they promoting XC fares on routes where a cheaper alternative existed...

I would not. Do we here numerous complaints on this forum about Virgin not promoting LM Only fares, East Coast not promoting Grand Central fares, London Midland not promoting VT Only fares, and so on? No, of course not!

The only complaints we hear about is when the cheaper tickets are not being displayed in the booking engine, an example being Virgin not displaying LM Advance tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you really do find it misleading ALR then why not complain to the ASA?

I'd be interested to see their response, although it will, most likely, be that no laws, statutory rules or ASA codes of conduct have been broken.

Sometimes XC bashing* is warranted. Not in this case though.

• The ASA know too little about Fares & Ticketing to do anything meaningful
• The most the ASA can do is tell XC to change or remove their advert

 

[IanXC]

I think that the issue is that it's XC doing it, and some people don't like XC because they don't offer loads of dirt-cheap advanced tickets (for the simple reason that they don't have spare capacity on their services to do so), so nothing that XC do will be right in some people's eyes (even when its promoting other TOCs).

Maybe that's just me?

I have a feeling you might be right, any opportunity eh!

Sometimes XC bashing* is warranted. Not in this case though.


*Before a fellow pedant comes along.... I don't mean in the rail enthusiast sense.

Sometimes warranted?! Always warranted more like

 

[Paul Kelly]

XC are advertising tickets to/from stations on their own network - which logically would involve travelling with XC - but via obscure via points or with different TOC's. That is what is misleading.

I think that's actually quite a fair point.

 

[bnm]

ALR, what material gain do CrossCountry make from advertising these fares as opposed to their own fares on the same flows?

I'll tell you. None. So they are not misleading customers to benefit themselves, they are merely being scrupulously correct in advertising the lowest fares for particular flows. A very useful tool when a customer wants the best price as opposed to choosing a fare based on journey time or onboard facilities. It's called a 'Best Fare Finder' which many TOCs have on their websites. CrossCountry merely choose to advertise a few examples on their homepage.

And for that you are going to town on them? Misguided ire....

Oh and please explain what you mean by 'via obscure via points'? All the fares advertised involve, at worst, one change of train and I'd hardly call Harrogate obscure when travelling from Leeds to York.

 

[johnnychips]

ALR, what material gain do CrossCountry make from advertising these fares as opposed to their own fares on the same flows?

Well they will make a percentage of the ticket sale if someone is attracted and buys it surely? But I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I wouldn't say its deceptive or misleading, but it does seem a bit odd. Surely they would prefer to advertise their own fares (no matter how much more expensive they may be)?
But as long as it is quite clear that the fares are not valid on XC services, then I don't see the issue (although I think that does need to be made quite clear as I do think some people may not be able to easily understand that).

 

[richw]

I buy all my tickets off of fgw, either at truro station or fgw website, for travel all over the uk, how dare fgw sell me tickets for northern or arriva Wales or scotrail.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[bnm]

Well they will make a percentage of the ticket sale if someone is attracted and buys it surely? But I agree with the rest of your post.

Sorry, I didn't make that point quite clear. If they were advertising their own fares*, either Advance or walk-up on flows they price, then XC would be making more money - from the Advance where they'd have all the revenue, and from the walk-up fares, on flows where they are the lead operator, the lions share (in most cases) of the ORCATS revenue.

By advertising the cheapest fare on a flow, CrossCountry are potentially losing out.

So, deceiving and misleading no-one but themselves.

*They then couldn't link to their 'Best Fare Finder' if there own fare was undercut on a particular flow. That would be misleading.

 

[SGS]

ALR, what material gain do CrossCountry make from advertising these fares as opposed to their own fares on the same flows?

I'll tell you. None.

They might make some money selling new tickets to passengers who have bought a ticket from Leeds to York, from XC's website, based on a headline fare in a XC advert, and who foolishly thought it would be valid on a XC train from Leeds to York.

 

[ian13]

I think that's actually quite a fair point.

It's quite a bait and switch really.

If you go to the CrossCountry site, and see advertised journeys which would normally be completed on a CrossCountry train, you expect the "from" price to apply to that.

In the case of Leeds to York, the advertised price is "from £10.60". Yet, when you search for this, it's £11.70 (with an orange "Cheapest" box) in all instances.

In the case of Bristol to Exeter, the £4 fare only applies to FGW services, and it's atleast £7 to travel by CrossCountry (on their faster service).

 

[bnm]

In the case of Leeds to York, the advertised price is "from £10.60". Yet, when you search for this, it's £11.70 (with an orange "Cheapest" box) in all instances.

I'll concede that that one is a little naughty. When you go through to the main booking engine after making your '£10.60' selection it defaults back to the £11.70 fare on the fastest route. You then have to scroll down and click on, 'Click here to check if cheaper tickets with longer journey times are available' to select the option for the £10.60 'via Harrogate' fare. That's a fault with how the booking engine is programmed,

CrossCountry's claim of fares 'from £10.60' still holds though. You just have to do a little more work to find that cheapest fare.

 

[kieron]

It's not naughtiness in any way at all. Incidentally some tickets ARE cheaper from some websites, as depends on the booking fees accrued. Some charge, some don't.

You can also take advantage of the fact that different web sites sometimes interpret the routeing guide in different ways. For example, Northern's site has no problem with a single from Bidston to Shotton via Whitchurch (Salop), where NRE (for one) does.

 

[bb21]

Much as I dislike the TOC XC, I find the logic a little bizarre that just because they advertise a fare it is assumed that the ticket is valid on XC services. They didn't claim so therefore I seriously doubt the claim of misleading information would stand at all. If a passenger is confident with ticketing matters, surely they would know the validity of the fare. If not, then they would check in advance of travel which services it is valid on. If a passenger is neither knowledgable about fares nor is he/she willing to check, surely consequences would be justified if he/she gets it wrong.

I'm sorry but I too fail to see the point of this whole thread.

 

[Minilad]

I'm sorry but I too fail to see the point of this whole thread.

Another cheap shot at XC would be my guess. Yawn

 

[Bellwater]

Same with EMT, because they don't do cheapo stooodent fares like TPE they shouldn't be running the Liverpool-Norwich route etc.

 

[yorkie]

I'm sorry but I too fail to see the point of this whole thread.

Agreed. There is one way it could have been made useful, and that would be for the person with the concern to contact XC about their concern, and if the response was 'newsworthy' then to report that.

For example...

I'll concede that that one is a little naughty. When you go through to the main booking engine after making your '£10.60' selection it defaults back to the £11.70 fare on the fastest route. You then have to scroll down and click on, 'Click here to check if cheaper tickets with longer journey times are available' to select the option for the £10.60 'via Harrogate' fare. That's a fault with how the booking engine is programmed,

CrossCountry's claim of fares 'from £10.60' still holds though. You just have to do a little more work to find that cheapest fare.

... I would turn it around and ask XC how to obtain the fare that they are advertising. Depending on what XC say, it may be a non-story.... or it may become worthy of a new topic.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if they were unable to answer, but they'd have to be given a chance IMO.

If someone offers something at a price, and you can't immediately find that price, then it is reasonable to ask the seller how to find it, and it is reasonable to expect to be informed. Perhaps XC will give a fantastic response, or perhaps they won't, but without giving them the chance, it's a non-story IMO.

(also I note they say "best fare"; that is sometimes what people here ask for, which makes me highly reluctant to answer. "best fare" is highly subjective; some people will think that it is fantastic value to get extra mileage and the chance of a Pacer via Harrogate, others will strongly disagree, and we're not mind-readers )