Declassified first class on Anglia 37s + Mk. 2s?

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jamesontheroad

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I expect to catch one of the Greater Anglia / DRS class 37 + Mk. 2 rakes in the coming weeks. Catching another train at NRW the other day, I noticed that the rake includes one Corridor Brake First (BFK) carriage.

As these routes have no other first class provision, are the first class compartments in this car declassified and available for customer use?
 
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Deepgreen

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I expect to catch one of the Greater Anglia / DRS class 37 + Mk. 2 rakes in the coming weeks. Catching another train at NRW the other day, I noticed that the rake includes one Corridor Brake First (BFK) carriage.

As these routes have no other first class provision, are the first class compartments in this car declassified and available for customer use?

As a universal rule, if first class is not advertised, standard class ticket holders may use the first class accommodation.
 

WestCountry

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The BFK is locked out-of-use. :(

It's substituting for the usual BSO while that's away for repairs, so might be gone in 'the coming weeks' anyway.
 

NSEFAN

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Deepgreen said:
As a universal rule, if first class is not advertised, standard class ticket holders may use the first class accommodation.
Despite what some RPIs tried to tell me on a Thameslink 319. Only backed down when told so by the driver! :lol:
 

Deepgreen

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The BFK is locked out-of-use. :(

It's substituting for the usual BSO while that's away for repairs, so might be gone in 'the coming weeks' anyway.

Why have a coach in the rake that is permanently locked? By definition it is not substituting for a previously-available one, and will probably just cause confusion when passengers try to board!
 

theblackwatch

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Why have a coach in the rake that is permanently locked? By definition it is not substituting for a previously-available one, and will probably just cause confusion when passengers try to board!

I'd guess that perhaps Anglia do not wish to use a compartment coach. They may have even done a risk assessment and decided against it being used by the public as there is more chance of assault etc.
 

Deepgreen

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I'd guess that perhaps Anglia do not wish to use a compartment coach. They may have even done a risk assessment and decided against it being used by the public as there is more chance of assault etc.

Maybe, but my point was, why pull it around for weeks for no purpose? Surely it wouldn't be beyond them to stick it in a siding somewhere until it is actually able to be used by passengers?
 

DarloRich

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Maybe, but my point was, why pull it around for weeks for no purpose? Surely it wouldn't be beyond them to stick it in a siding somewhere until it is actually able to be used by passengers?

because the train cant run without a brake vehicle?
 

dk1

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I think it doesn't help that it's the wrong way round so passengers would need to go through the brake van with insecure (no CDL) exterior doors.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Maybe, but my point was, why pull it around for weeks for no purpose? Surely it wouldn't be beyond them to stick it in a siding somewhere until it is actually able to be used by passengers?

They still need the brake part, just no real need of the capacity the seating section provides.
 

yorksrob

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That would be a disappointment if I were travelling on the service. I think that from a safety point of view, I'd be a lot more worried about being blocked in by an assailant in airline 3+2 stock (or any airline seating come to think of it) than a corridor compartment with ample room to get past someone.
 

jamesontheroad

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Thanks for the info all. I was aware about the general consensus of using first class when not advertised, but also a bit confused about the orientation of the carriage. I vaguely remember that the compartments were adjacent to the locomotive, with the guard's van / brake van compartment between them and the standard class carriages.

I also notice, through the open doors, a couple of crates of small / complimentary-size bottles of mineral water stored in the brake van, presumably stored on board in case of lengthy train failures?
 

159220

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Sorry if this has already been said.

17159 has its guard exit doors welded shut, thus AGA refuse to use it in passenger service. Some debating between AGA and DRS has lead to the coach being locked out of use, but used in the short rake.

9521 or was it 9525 which was used in the rake until recently, had electrical faults and thus swapped in with 17159 whilst 9521 is away being fixed.
 

Ash Bridge

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Is this not the same MK2 BFK that was used on Cumbrian Coast services last year, l seem to recall it was in passenger service then as someone on here managed to make a journey in a compartment much to my envy.
 

Bungle965

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As a universal rule, if first class is not advertised, standard class ticket holders may use the first class accommodation.

That's interesting as when I was down last summer on the Great Yarmouth line a Class 170 appeared, I had a look on BRfares and it did not appear that there was any first class tickets. I took seat in First class the guard visited a couple of minutes after leaving Norwich and said that it was only people who held first advance tickets from places such as London were the only ones who able to use the `facilities`.
The guard although polite (as with all of the other guards I came across from GA) he was insistent on the rule.
Sam
 

jopsuk

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what's happened as far as GA getting DBSOs in for this operation? Not as if DRS don't now have them
 

chubs

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what's happened as far as GA getting DBSOs in for this operation? Not as if DRS don't now have them

How many do DRS have now? I've seen 5 or 6 mention on here before, but other than the 2 in service there doesn't seem to be any confirmation they have the others or have refurbished them to a useable state.
 

dk1

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I also notice, through the open doors, a couple of crates of small / complimentary-size bottles of mineral water stored in the brake van, presumably stored on board in case of lengthy train failures?

Lengthy train failures?? Where did that come from? No more on AGA than on any other TOC. Copious amounts of bottled water is placed in all their trains from this time of year for use by crew & passengers & always has been. You will see many cases stacked in every fleet class & so it should be.
 

yorksrob

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Sorry if this has already been said.

17159 has its guard exit doors welded shut, thus AGA refuse to use it in passenger service. Some debating between AGA and DRS has lead to the coach being locked out of use, but used in the short rake.

9521 or was it 9525 which was used in the rake until recently, had electrical faults and thus swapped in with 17159 whilst 9521 is away being fixed.

Is there any benefit or reason to having the guards door welded shut ? I notice on a lot of InterCity sets, the door next to the buffet tends to be out of use to passengers.
 

dk1

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Is there any benefit or reason to having the guards door welded shut ? I notice on a lot of InterCity sets, the door next to the buffet tends to be out of use to passengers.

Mostly on HSTs I find. No buffet car doors are welded shut on AGA.
 

47513 Severn

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At some stations (certainly Brundall Gardens westbound, maybe others) the conductor on the short set only releases the very front available door on the train due to platform length. To do that on the BFK would require all boarding and alighting passengers (plus bikes, pushchairs etc) to pass through the very narrow corridor alongside the compartments. I doubt this would be viewed as ideal.

Without wanting to reopen the unadvertised first class can of worms (suffice to say I don't agree with those on here who believe sitting in it with a standard class ticket is a right enshrined in the Magna Carta!) a few Yarmouth trains are (or were, I can't seem to find them now) advertised as having first class and diagrammed for class 170. On those at least, first class means it regardless of fares being available.

I do think it's pointless having first class on the 170s now they no longer serve London though.
 
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BestWestern

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Mostly on HSTs I find. No buffet car doors are welded shut on AGA.

The doors on a MK3 buffet car (buffet end) will still open, but only via an emergency release handle located above the door. They do function.

As for this locked BFK, presumably it makes sense have it spun around so that the brake compartment is actually next to the passenger accommodation, with the out of use compartments tucked away right at the back of the train.
 

dk1

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I do think it's pointless having first class on the 170s now they no longer serve London though.

It can be reasonably well used on Norwich-Cambridge services particularly after Ely, to/from Cambridge in peak hours or when there is engineering on the GEML. Remember on the 3-cars First Class went all the way to the disabled toilet & thats why there are still internal sliding doors on the now standard class section of the 50 vehicle.
 

yorksrob

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At some stations (certainly Brundall Gardens westbound, maybe others) the conductor on the short set only releases the very front available door on the train due to platform length. To do that on the BFK would require all boarding and alighting passengers (plus bikes, pushchairs etc) to pass through the very narrow corridor alongside the compartments. I doubt this would be viewed as ideal.

Without wanting to reopen the unadvertised first class can of worms (suffice to say I don't agree with those on here who believe sitting in it with a standard class ticket is a right enshrined in the Magna Carta!) a few Yarmouth trains are (or were, I can't seem to find them now) advertised as having first class and diagrammed for class 170. On those at least, first class means it regardless of fares being available.

I do think it's pointless having first class on the 170s now they no longer serve London though.

Perhaps they should add it as an amendment to the Magna Carta. It would certainly be more relevant than the bit about fishing on the Medway.

On the subject of the DRS Mk2, the point about everyone having to get through the corridor to reach the front door seems more logical. However I'm still intrigued as to why the other door would be welded shut in the first place !
 

BestWestern

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Perhaps they should add it as an amendment to the Magna Carta. It would certainly be more relevant than the bit about fishing on the Medway.

On the subject of the DRS Mk2, the point about everyone having to get through the corridor to reach the front door seems more logical. However I'm still intrigued as to why the other door would be welded shut in the first place !

Having just Googled an image of 17159, it appears there is a door immediately adjacent to the passenger accommodation at the brake van end which has been sealed - external handles removed etc - but the doors associated with the actual Guard's area are, of course, still intact. That is one single door and then a set of double doors into the van itself. This is mandatory not only for the Guard to work the train, presumably, but also because there has to be a means of escape from either end of a carriage; it cannot be 'sealed' at one end. It may be that the TOC simply doesn't want passengers milling about in the brake van area, where the doors will be independent of the central locking system.
 

yorksrob

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Having just Googled an image of 17159, it appears there is a door immediately adjacent to the passenger accommodation at the brake van end which has been sealed - external handles removed etc - but the doors associated with the actual Guard's area are, of course, still intact. That is one single door and then a set of double doors into the van itself. This is mandatory not only for the Guard to work the train, presumably, but also because there has to be a means of escape from either end of a carriage; it cannot be 'sealed' at one end. It may be that the TOC simply doesn't want passengers milling about in the brake van area, where the doors will be independent of the central locking system.

Thanks, that's very interesting.

How is this different from ordinary loco hauled stock where the guard has to open his own door before releasing the central locking ? It seems peculiar for there not to be some way for the guard to secure and release his own door !
 
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