Delay repay - but I was early!

[neilmc]

I have just undertaken a journey to London from a station with a fairly infrequent service. I went to buy my ticket (off-peak return) from the station early intending to stroll around town for a while but noticed that a previous train running 70 minutes late was due to arrive shortly, so I took that one. The late train didn't make up time but in fact I still arrived in London earlier than I would have done on my intended train!

Now can I be really cheeky and claim Delay Repay - the train manager scrawled what I take to be the reporting number on the ticket so it was clear which train I caught - after all the train I caught was very late even if I wasn't!

Only problem I can see is that an eagle-eyed staff member might spot that the time the ticket was printed at the station was well later than the scheduled departure time of the delayed train so might reasonably assume I never intended to catch it!

 

[ainsworth74]

Nope delay repay is based on your journey and as you arrived earlier than planned you are not entitled to delay repay. If an eagle eyed member of staff spots the time that your ticket was printed it could potential cause the TOC to start investigating for fraud.

 

[Starmill]

No. If your journey was delayed, you can claim compensation for a delay. You have told us your journey was not delayed, so you definitely shouldn't try to claim compensation.

 

[richw]

Nope delay repay is based on your journey and as you arrived earlier than planned you are not entitled to delay repay. If an eagle eyed member of staff spots the time that your ticket was printed it could potential cause the TOC to start investigating for fraud.

A passenger could argue they saw the delay before going to the station, so didn't need to wait around at the origin station, walked around town for example. The time of the ticket sale isn't fully relevant. It doesn't prove the intended journey.

 

[ainsworth74]

Sure but do you really want to start having that argument over compensation that you are not entitled to?

 

[yorkie]

A passenger could argue they saw the delay before going to the station, so didn't need to wait around at the origin station, walked around town for example. The time of the ticket sale isn't fully relevant. It doesn't prove the intended journey.

True, if there was no other train in that time, they could indeed do that, and make that point (if questioned), if that is what happened.

However it wasn't what happened on this occasion, so the claim isn't valid.

 

[neilmc]

No, I'm not going to claim Delay Repay, it just occurred to me I could, if I hadn't bought the ticket until well after the scheduled departure time.

Of course, if this had been on the RETURN journey ...

 

[richw]

Sure but do you really want to start having that argument over compensation that you are not entitled to?

Absolutely not when you aren't entitled, but it nullifies your second sentence in the quote in my last post.
I've done it before, seen nothing running through Cornwall due to a blocked line, and as I live 5 minutes from the station, stayed home until things were running.
I had the scenario last year, all lines blocked, I needed the XC service just before 10 (can't remember the exact time) saw it was delayed and expected at around noon. I left home at 1130 and that was when I bought my ticket. XC paid up no questions asked, despite the late printing of the ticket (there were no other suitable services to the destination other than the circa 10am)

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't think it does nullify my second sentence. If you claimed like that then an eagle eyed member of staff may raise questions that may prompt the TOC to look into things a bit more and starting asking questions of the passenger claiming delay repay. But, equally, they may very well not even think to look at the time of issue so it will probably never crop up.

 

[richw]

I don't think it does nullify my second sentence. If you claimed like that then an eagle eyed member of staff may raise questions that may prompt the TOC to look into things a bit more and starting asking questions of the passenger claiming delay repay. But, equally, they may very well not even think to look at the time of issue so it will probably never crop up.

They could ask questions, but the time of sale is meaningless for the passengers intentions.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'll confess to having done this once, but only because I had bought my ticket the day before without a reservation or itinarry and claimed on the basis that the late train I caught had in fact been my intended one. I shant do so again now. Appologies, feel free to tear me to shreds.

 

[boxy321]

With the West Midlands nnetwork season ticket, you could in theory claim for every late train in the region. I did claim once after a one hour delay (track, not train issue) and got £1.50 back by cheque in the post 3 months later.

The last time we got delayed on board there was that much booze dished out I would feel guilty of claiming anything!

 

[gray1404]

The last time we got delayed on board there was that much booze dished out I would feel guilty of claiming anything!

I am assuming you were in first class.

 

[gray1404]

A passenger could argue they saw the delay before going to the station, so didn't need to wait around at the origin station, walked around town for example. The time of the ticket sale isn't fully relevant. It doesn't prove the intended journey.

Totally agree with this. I have stayed at home (or elsewhere) in much for comfort before going to the station and buying my ticket if I have seen that my intended service is delayed or cancelled.

The time the ticket is sold is not the factor, it is if the passengers intended journey is delayed.

(Although I do admit that in applying this strategy, it is important in order to retain your entitlement to delay repay you need to make sure you travel on the next available trains. Although if even part of your journey involves connecting onto an infrequent - or even hourly - service then might has well wait at home for the next train or rock up when the severely delayed train is arriving).

As a side point I have a friend who is so obsessed with using his train tracker app in will turn up at the station later even if the train is running under 5 minutes late. The amount of times he has missed the train as it's made up time.

 

[boxy321]

I am assuming you were in first class.

Yes but you usually get nothing at all between New St and Coventry in the evening. The staff don't start until approaching Rugby. We were stuck outside Tile hill for about 45mins.

 

[David57]

I was on a Virgin Birmingham-Euston train the other week. and the trolley didn't start to come round until well after Coventry.........

Guess who was getting off at Rugby?............

 

[Antman]

Totally agree with this. I have stayed at home (or elsewhere) in much for comfort before going to the station and buying my ticket if I have seen that my intended service is delayed or cancelled.

The time the ticket is sold is not the factor, it is if the passengers intended journey is delayed.

(Although I do admit that in applying this strategy, it is important in order to retain your entitlement to delay repay you need to make sure you travel on the next available trains.

Why?

Obviously the delay is at most the difference between the train you intended to catch and the next available train, but provided you do actually catch a later train than the one you originally intended to, why does it make a difference if it is the next one or a subsequent one.

If a train is disrupted I tend to avoid the next train as it is usually overcrowded. I don't see why claiming Delay Repay should require an unpleasant journey as well as being delayed.

 

[Tetchytyke]

why does it make a difference if it is the next one or a subsequent one.

Because you have an obligation to minimise your delays as much as the TOC does.

If the next available train is eligible for Delay Repay it doesn't matter, but you can't decide to wait another 10 minutes to bump your delay over 30/60/120 minutes and expect the TOC to foot the bill.

 

[Antman]

Because you have an obligation to minimise your delays as much as the TOC does.

If the next available train is eligible for Delay Repay it doesn't matter, but you can't decide to wait another 10 minutes to bump your delay over 30/60/120 minutes and expect the TOC to foot the bill.

Of course you can't claim for that, and I never suggested you could. Did you miss the -

Obviously the delay is at most the difference between the train you intended to catch and the next available train

To make it abundantly clear -

Train you intended to catch but which is cancelled was scheduled to leave at 10:00 arriving at 11:00.

The next train will leave at 10:30 arriving 11:30 (and leaves and arrives on time), but will be absolutely rammed full.

You have been delayed 30 minutes irrespective of whether you catch the 10:30 or decide to hold off and catch a subsequent train.

If by saying "you have an obligation to minimise your delays" you mean you have an obligation to catch the next train, then I disagree as there is no such obligation.

The only obligation is to claim for the delay caused by the train company.

 

[yorkie]

Why?

Obviously the delay is at most the difference between the train you intended to catch and the next available train, but provided you do actually catch a later train than the one you originally intended to, why does it make a difference if it is the next one or a subsequent one.

If a train is disrupted I tend to avoid the next train as it is usually overcrowded. I don't see why claiming Delay Repay should require an unpleasant journey as well as being delayed.

Without a real example and context, it is difficult to comment.

However in general if you choose to incur additional delay for comfort reasons then you are not eligible for compensation under Delay Repay in my opinion however if you fully explain your reasoning (presumably you do in your correspondence) then discretion is likely to be shown, where you acted reasonably.

 

[Antman]

Without a real example and context, it is difficult to comment.

I am not sure why a real example is any better than the theoretical example I gave, but here goes.

Let us suppose you wanted to catch the 16:40 Great Northern Kings Cross to Peterborough service, but it was cancelled due to the lack of a driver and the nice train company sent you a text message half an hour before hand telling you.

Now you could head down to Kings Cross and catch the slow 16:50 and arrive 28 minutes late. However your chance of getting a seat is going to be slim.

You could try for the 17:07 but that is going to be definitely overcrowded, so you would need to be there early and even then the lovely Great Northern will probably do their favourite trick of not putting it on the board until 17:06, so you have the mad dash to the platform, And you still end up late home.

Or alternatively you could say "ah well" and do a bit more work in the office and catch the 17:37.

Whatever happens you are going to be at least 28 minutes late because Great Northern didn't have a driver for the train you planned to catch, but do you really need to stand all the way to Peterborough to make a 15 minute Delay Repay claim, rather than take the sensible option of letting the problem subside.

And for the avoidance of doubt I am NOT suggesting you can claim for a 35 minute delay if you caught the 17:07 or the one hour 10 minute delay if you waited until the 17:37. Just the 15 minute Delay Repay for the 28 minute unavoidable delay.

However in general if you choose to incur additional delay for comfort reasons then you are not eligible for compensation under Delay Repay in my opinion

So you are suggesting you forfeit your rights to Delay Repay if you don't also suffer a horrible standing journey on the next overcrowded train?

I cannot say I agree.

however if you fully explain your reasoning (presumably you do in your correspondence) then discretion is likely to be shown, where you acted reasonably.

I see no need to explain. If the train company wanted to know which train I eventually caught they would ask. They don't.

 

[AlterEgo]

Without a real example and context, it is difficult to comment.

However in general if you choose to incur additional delay for comfort reasons then you are not eligible for compensation under Delay Repay in my opinion however if you fully explain your reasoning (presumably you do in your correspondence) then discretion is likely to be shown, where you acted reasonably.

The time of purchasing the ticket is important. You may not be entitled to delay repay if you knew at the time you purchased your ticket of the delay to your journey.

No ticket, no contract.

(The situation is a little different if there are no ticket facilities)

 

[Antman]

The time of purchasing the ticket is important. You may not be entitled to delay repay if you knew at the time you purchased your ticket of the delay to your journey.

No ticket, no contract.

A season ticket in the example above.

 

[AlterEgo]

A season ticket in the example above.

Well clearly you have bought the ticket prior to travel. But you cannot select the most favourable train for delay repay during the validity of your ticket unless you really did intend to travel on that train. (I know you weren't suggesting that - that's for the benefit of others)

It is quite easy to spot the chancers.

 

[Antman]

But you cannot select the most favourable train for delay repay during the validity of your ticket unless you really did intend to travel on that train. (I know you weren't suggesting that - that's for the benefit of others)

So we agree that provided you did intend to travel on the train that creates the delay you can catch whatever subsequent train that meets your need, without impacting on the Delay Repay claim. Good.

 

[AlterEgo]

So we agree that provided you did intend to travel on the train that creates the delay you can catch whatever subsequent train that meets your need, without impacting on the Delay Repay claim. Good.

You can catch whatever train you like as long as you claim for the first available train, in my view that is the morally correct thing to do.

 

[Antman]

You can catch whatever train you like as long as you claim for the first available train, in my view that is the morally correct thing to do.

Good. I couldn't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

 

[sheff1]

The time of purchasing the ticket is important. You may not be entitled to delay repay if you knew at the time you purchased your ticket of the delay to your journey.

A few days ago I arrived at Aberdeen station around 1045 with a view to catching the 1103 to Inverurie but the departures board showed the train as cancelled. The next scheduled train is the 1200.

I made enquiries and was told they "hoped" to run a replacement bus. Shortly afterwards I was told a bus was running and so bought a ticket. When we arrived in Inverurie, more than 30 mins after the scheduled arrival time of the 1103, the staff member there was waiting and dishing out Delay Repay forms to everyone who alighted. Most people seemed to have been connecting from south of Aberdeen, but when I said I had only started my journey there he said I could still claim Delay Repay as I had been delayed the same as everyone else - this got me thinking and now I wonder what people on here think.

I had left the hotel expecting to arrive in Inverurie at 1127. When I arrived at the station I realised I would not be able to do so. Catching the next train (or, as it transpired, the replacement bus) would still be the quickest way of getting there, other than getting a taxi. So it seems to me that, even though I had bought the ticket after knowing of the delay, the advice that I should qualify for Delay Repay seems morally correct, even though the terms of Delay Repay suggest otherwise. Thoughts ?

 

[AlterEgo]

Strictly speaking, you were told of the delay prior to making any contract with the railway as you hadn't bought your ticket. I wouldn't argue the toss about paying it if it were within my gift but some people might.

 

[yorkie]

You can catch whatever train you like as long as you claim for the first available train, in my view that is the morally correct thing to do.

Agreed.

dragonblyth - thanks for providing an example; it avoids unnecessary confusion, as it turns out we are all in unanimous agreement on that point!

I am not so sure about the point of not yet having had a ticket; if the rail industry wants to adopt this view on a strict basis they need to abolish contactless/smart travel and provide a way of buying a ticket for a journey from any station using all acceptable payment methods for any journey. As they will not do this, then I think it should suffice if the customer acted reasonably.