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Delay Repay: Multiple Operator Conundrum

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axander

New Member
Joined
8 Mar 2021
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2
Location
Leicester
Firstly, I have just signed up for this forum, so please shout if I'm doing something wrong. Additionally, just for some background, I am messing around with the Darwin Historical Performance API and looking to write some automated scripts, hence the need to understand the Delay Repay logic.

So, the conundrum...

I am going to give a fictitious example, however, it isn't too dissimilar to some journies I have caught in the past.

The journey is Leicester (LEI) to York (YRK) with a changeover in Sheffield (SHF):
  • EM 1100 LEI -> SHF (scheduled arrival before 1230)
  • XC 1230 SHF -> YRK (scheduled arrival 1330)
Consider the following scenario:
  • EM 1100 LEI -> SHF arrives late and I miss the 1230 connection to YRK.
  • I catch an alternative train, XC 1330 SHF -> YRK (scheduled arrival 1430).
Now the tricky bit...
  • The train I was scheduled to catch (XC 1230 SHF -> YRK) arrives late at 1420. This is 50 mins after the scheduled arrival of 1330.
  • The alternative train I was forced to catch due to EM delay also arrives late at 1440. This is 10 minutes after the scheduled arrival of 1430.
So, which company do I claim compensation off? And, how much do I claim?
  • I arrived at 1440, 1 hour and 10 minutes late compared with my scheduled arrival time for the entire journey.
  • Naively, I would claim from EM, saying their delay in the 1100 LEI -> SHF caused this. Additionally, I would claim for the 1h10m delay.
  • However, EM could say I arrived only 20m after my scheduled train (1230 SHF -> YRK), thus the total delay is actually only 20m.
  • So, instead, do I claim compensation from XC for the 50m delay on my scheduled train (1230 SHF -> YRK)? But I wasn't actually on this train. So, would that be fraudulent?
I hope this gets across my point. You can construct many scenarios like this and I think it is very confusing to know exactly who to claim off and what bracket (15+, 30+, 1h+ etc). This is only amplified when additional legs and operators are added too.


Any help would be greatly appreciated
 
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LA50041

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2017
Messages
2,163
Firstly, I have just signed up for this forum, so please shout if I'm doing something wrong. Additionally, just for some background, I am messing around with the Darwin Historical Performance API and looking to write some automated scripts, hence the need to understand the Delay Repay logic.

So, the conundrum...

I am going to give a fictitious example, however, it isn't too dissimilar to some journies I have caught in the past.

The journey is Leicester (LEI) to York (YRK) with a changeover in Sheffield (SHF):
  • EM 1100 LEI -> SHF (scheduled arrival before 1230)
  • XC 1230 SHF -> YRK (scheduled arrival 1330)
Consider the following scenario:
  • EM 1100 LEI -> SHF arrives late and I miss the 1230 connection to YRK.
  • I catch an alternative train, XC 1330 SHF -> YRK (scheduled arrival 1430).
Now the tricky bit...
  • The train I was scheduled to catch (XC 1230 SHF -> YRK) arrives late at 1420. This is 50 mins after the scheduled arrival of 1330.
  • The alternative train I was forced to catch due to EM delay also arrives late at 1440. This is 10 minutes after the scheduled arrival of 1430.
So, which company do I claim compensation off? And, how much do I claim?
  • I arrived at 1440, 1 hour and 10 minutes late compared with my scheduled arrival time for the entire journey.
  • Naively, I would claim from EM, saying their delay in the 1100 LEI -> SHF caused this. Additionally, I would claim for the 1h10m delay.
  • However, EM could say I arrived only 20m after my scheduled train (1230 SHF -> YRK), thus the total delay is actually only 20m.
  • So, instead, do I claim compensation from XC for the 50m delay on my scheduled train (1230 SHF -> YRK)? But I wasn't actually on this train. So, would that be fraudulent?
I hope this gets across my point. You can construct many scenarios like this and I think it is very confusing to know exactly who to claim off and what bracket (15+, 30+, 1h+ etc). This is only amplified when additional legs and operators are added too.


Any help would be greatly appreciated
Delay repay should be on the actual Journey you make vs the planned arrival.

if you were scheduled to arrive 1330 then that is what delay replay should be based on and claimed from the first company that delayed your journey
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
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12,215
Location
UK
You claim from the first company whose service's delay or cancellation causes your journey to become delayed. In this case EMR.

You claim for your actual arrival time at your destination station vs your scheduled arrival time. So in this case 70 mins delay, i.e. 1hr+ level of compensation.

Intermediate times are only of relevance where you decide to break your journey (say at Sheffield in this case), or if you haven't allowed the minimum connection time between services (and thus planned an 'impossible' connection).

The only scope for argument is if your both your first and second trains are disrupted, and the first TOC might say "ah, but it doesn't matter that our train was cancelled/late, there wouldn't have been a train for you to connect to anyway". But usually they accept liability straight away.
 

axander

New Member
Joined
8 Mar 2021
Messages
2
Location
Leicester
You claim from the first company whose service's delay or cancellation causes your journey to become delayed. In this case EMR.

You claim for your actual arrival time at your destination station vs your scheduled arrival time. So in this case 70 mins delay, i.e. 1hr+ level of compensation.

Intermediate times are only of relevance where you decide to break your journey (say at Sheffield in this case), or if you haven't allowed the minimum connection time between services (and thus planned an 'impossible' connection).

The only scope for argument is if your both your first and second trains are disrupted, and the first TOC might say "ah, but it doesn't matter that our train was cancelled/late, there wouldn't have been a train for you to connect to anyway". But usually they accept liability straight away.

Thanks! This makes sense now. Really appreciate it.

Although you may well want to see the Delay Repay Fraud thread before you started automating any claims!
Thanks. Don't worry, I won't actually be sending claims. I am just working on a side project which is actually relevant to me!
 

Qwerty133

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2012
Messages
2,457
Location
Leicester/Sheffield
You claim from the first company whose service's delay or cancellation causes your journey to become delayed. In this case EMR.

You claim for your actual arrival time at your destination station vs your scheduled arrival time. So in this case 70 mins delay, i.e. 1hr+ level of compensation.

Intermediate times are only of relevance where you decide to break your journey (say at Sheffield in this case), or if you haven't allowed the minimum connection time between services (and thus planned an 'impossible' connection).

The only scope for argument is if your both your first and second trains are disrupted, and the first TOC might say "ah, but it doesn't matter that our train was cancelled/late, there wouldn't have been a train for you to connect to anyway". But usually they accept liability straight away.
It'd be unlikely for any TOC to object if the delay to their service meant that you would be unable to catch your connecting service if it had been running to time. The only time in which it may be a problem is in the situation in which the delay to the first train would not have prevented you from catching your connecting service had it been on-time (as in that case the first TOCs train being delayed would have had no impact on your arrival time at your final destination if the other TOCs train was running to time).
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,683
Subsequent delays which take you into a new threshold are still claimed from the first TOC to delay you despite that additional delay not being their fault, what they do is irrelevant but it is them that owe your the money.


It's also a shame that we have a regular "anti passenger" poster trying to frighten you into not claiming any delay repay that may be due but sadly this is increasingly common here.
 
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