Delay repay query, split ticket multiple TOCS

[talltim]

My sister and I were recently delayed travelling back from Lancaster to Chesterfield
I had bought returns Chesterfield-Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Piccadilly-Lancaster from EMT
We were due to catch a TPE train from Lancaster to Manchester, but it was cancelled. We ended up catching a Virgin train to Preston and changing onto a Norther service to Manchester there. I'm not sure how much later than planned we were into Manchester, I think about 50 mins, but I can probably check. This meant that we caught the EMT service an hour later than planned.
I still have both return portions of the Lancaster-Manchester tickets and one of the Manchester-Chesterfield tickets (I suspect my sister had the other)
When I look at the EMT delay repay form it says

ONLY SHOW YOUR JOURNEY WITH EAST MIDLANDS TRAINS

Should I be claiming from EMT? If so, should I be claiming for the hour delay to whole journey?
If not I assume I need to claim from TPE? Again,should I be claiming for the hour delay to whole journey?
What do I do about the missing ticket? Can I only claim for the whole journey for once and the delay into Manchester for the other ticket?

 

[185143]

You claim from the TOC who delayed you, in this case TPE.

Regarding the missing ticket, find as many tickets as you can and then send them. The outward portion for the lost ticket may help, but explain that you have lost the return. (TPE won't have to pay for that as the correct ticket hasn't been sent, but in my experience they are usually sensible with compensation claims)
You have 28 days for them to receive it so there's no real urgency yet.

 

[najaB]

What do I do about the missing ticket? Can I only claim for the whole journey for once and the delay into Manchester for the other ticket?

I would claim for the full delay for both tickets, attaching/writing a note to say that one of the tickets was lost. The worst they can do is deny the claim for the second ticket, but I expect that they wouldn't.

 

[talltim]

Train details
We were planning to catch the 17:30 TPE service from Glasgow to Manchester Airport which was cancelled
We then caught the 17:37 VT Glasgow to Euston which was 20 minutes late and got off at Preston (first ride on a Pendolino. Although not as bad as I had got the impression, was very underwhelmed, considering they are supposed to be a flagship British train)
From Preston we caught the 18:20 NT Preston - Hazel Grove, getting into Manchester Piccadilly at 19:23 instead of 18:31 as originally planned.
This meant we caught the 19:43 EMT service to Chesterfield instead of the 18:43, This service got in 8 minutes late at Chesterfield, meaning that we were over an hour late

 

[SickyNicky]

I would claim for the full delay for both tickets, attaching/writing a note to say that one of the tickets was lost. The worst they can do is deny the claim for the second ticket, but I expect that they wouldn't.

If they do decide to deny any part of the claim, please let us know. In these circumstances, it may well be worth pointing out certain wording in the conditions of carriage and the delay compensation scheme to them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they do decide to deny any part of the claim, please let us know. In these circumstances, it may well be worth pointing out certain wording in the conditions of carriage and the delay compensation scheme to them.

And that by saying the ONLY SHOW YOUR JOURNEY... bit they are in breach of their franchise agreement?

To whom should this be reported?

Neil

 

[SickyNicky]

And that by saying the ONLY SHOW YOUR JOURNEY... bit they are in breach of their franchise agreement?

If they happily pay up, I really wouldn't be worried about it. I suppose they're only interested in the EMT service that caused the delay. In any case, I would ignore what the form says and send in the whole journey details with all the tickets. Keep copies, obviously.

 

[Clip]

And that by saying the ONLY SHOW YOUR JOURNEY... bit they are in breach of their franchise agreement?

To whom should this be reported?

Neil

Not really as I would say 90% if not more of the claims they receive will be from only EMT users.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not really as I would say 90% if not more of the claims they receive will be from only EMT users.

However it will encourage those who are delayed, say, 10 minutes on an EMT service but this causes a delay of over 2 hours to the overall journey because they were making a valid connection into an infrequent service, not to bother applying for the full 2 hour delay repay even though they are entitled to it.

For that reason I believe they are in breach.

Neil

 

[Clip]

Well you know where to report them to don't you.

Do let us know how you get on.

 

[talltim]

However it will encourage those who are delayed, say, 10 minutes on an EMT service but this causes a delay of over 2 hours to the overall journey because they were making a valid connection into an infrequent service, not to bother applying for the full 2 hour delay repay even though they are entitled to it.

For that reason I believe they are in breach.

Neil

It caused me doubt, and while I've never claimed before, I do know more about railways than the average punter
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not really as I would say 90% if not more of the claims they receive will be from only EMT users.

Dunno about that. From Chesterfield, for example, only 60% of trains are run by EMT, and they tend to be the ones that are on time

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well you know where to report them to don't you.

I'm guessing Passenger Focus?

Neil

 

[sonic2009]

You need to write to TPE not EMT as TPE were the who originally delayed you in the first instance.

They should pay relevant vouchers for the delayed incurred.

 

[bb21]

Am I a bit slow here?

If the delay originated from an EMT service, then by showing the affected EMT service and stating your actual destination, there should not be a problem claiming for the journey.

If the delay did not originate from an EMT service, then this is irrelevant, as the passenger should not be claiming from EMT anyway.

So while this is not perfect wording, I struggle to see any real problem. I always print out the form, fill it in manually, and send any relevant ticket(s) to the Freepost address listed on their form if the claim is more complex than the most straight forward. I don't think a complaint about the wording is unreasonable, but a franchise breach? Surely not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd imagine only a breach if they are trying to signify that only the EMT delay is of significance.

Though there is the other side, namely that if a one hour delay to an EMT service (say) caused no delay to the overall journey, e.g. because you had a long connection onto an infrequent service, nothing is payable.

Neil

 

[talltim]

Am I a bit slow here?

If the delay originated from an EMT service, then by showing the affected EMT service and stating your actual destination, there should not be a problem claiming for the journey.

If the delay did not originate from an EMT service, then this is irrelevant, as the passenger should not be claiming from EMT anyway.

So while this is not perfect wording, I struggle to see any real problem. I always print out the form, fill it in manually, and send any relevant ticket(s) to the Freepost address listed on their form if the claim is more complex than the most straight forward. I don't think a complaint about the wording is unreasonable, but a franchise breach? Surely not.

The confusion comes from buying the tickets from EMT, thus my contract is with them.
And working out the TOC that caused the delay is not as simple as all that either. The cancelled TPE train was the original cause, but then the Virgin train was late too, if it had been on time I might have been able to catch an earlier train at Preston and thus an earlier train at Manchester (I haven't checked this). And at the end of the journey the EMT train was late, tipping us from being 60 minutes late to 68 minutes late.

 

[Tibbs]

The confusion comes from buying the tickets from EMT, thus my contract is with them.
And working out the TOC that caused the delay is not as simple as all that either. The cancelled TPE train was the original cause, but then the Virgin train was late too, if it had been on time I might have been able to catch an earlier train at Preston and thus an earlier train at Manchester (I haven't checked this). And at the end of the journey the EMT train was late, tipping us from being 60 minutes late to 68 minutes late.

You go back to first causes IMO. The TPE train cancellation was the cause of all the resulting delay, you wouldn't have been on the (late) Virgin train had that train run, so the claim lies with them.

 

[talltim]

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Just saying that its not as simple as it first seems when you have different lateness cutoff compensation amounts. TPE 'might' have only made me half an hour late
BTW neither the EMT or TPE forms seem to have anywhere to explain the journey, do people add the explanation separately? Also they don't the option to claim for two tickets (i.e. mine and my sister's) on the same form.

 

[yorkie]

The confusion comes from buying the tickets from EMT, thus my contract is with them.

You have a "contract between you and each Train Company whose trains you have the right to use" (source: NRCoC)

And working out the TOC that caused the delay is not as simple as all that either. The cancelled TPE train was the original cause.....

• You can obtain compensation for your journey.
• You may use two or more tickets for one journey.
• Your journey was from Lancaster to Chesterfield.
• A delay to a TPE train caused the initial delay, and therefore it is TPE who you claim from.
• Your journey was delayed by 72 minutes (measured at the final destination for your journey; 1952 compared to 2104).

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also they don't the option to claim for two tickets (i.e. mine and my sister's) on the same form.

Either don't use their form, or alternatively I'd use one form each person, and I'd enter the information as follows:

• Ticket type: write both ticket types, if one is different to the other
• Ticket number: write both ticket numbers
• How much did you pay for your ticket: enter the total price.
• Journey from: Lancaster
• Journey to: Chesterfield
• length of delay: 72 minutes