Delay Repay rejected for a journey that was abandoned

[Smeags]

At the end of November, I had an issue travelling to work from my local station, Hattersley, where a Northern Rail train did not show up. I waited around for half an hour after the due time - nothing (there was actually meant to be another train in that period too).

After that 30mins, the worker in the ticket office gave everyone some info - a train had broken down on the line and was blocking everything. He said he had no idea how long it would take to fix.

I ended up going and paying for a bus (1hr journey. Train is usually 20mins). For all I knew, I could have been waiting there for hours.

My delay repay claim for this eventually got rejected! They said, because I did not complete the journey by train. I thought this was ridiculous at the time - how am I meant to complete my journey by train, when no train shows up?!
And after my latest incident, I feel like they're just trying to get out of paying for everything. Is this what they do? I think the sooner Northern lose their franchise, the better.

Chris

 

[221129]

My delay repay claim for this eventually got rejected! They said, because I did not complete the journey by train.

That is also correct. You can't claim for a journey you didn't make.

 

[30907]

Just to add -

At the end of November, I had an issue travelling to work from my local station, Hattersley, where a Northern Rail train did not show up. I waited around for half an hour after the due time - nothing (there was actually meant to be another train in that period too).

After that 30mins, the worker in the ticket office gave everyone some info - a train had broken down on the line and was blocking everything. He said he had no idea how long it would take to fix.

I ended up going and paying for a bus (1hr journey. Train is usually 20mins). For all I knew, I could have been waiting there for hours.

My delay repay claim for this eventually got rejected! They said, because I did not complete the journey by train. I thought this was ridiculous at the time - how am I meant to complete my journey by train, when no train shows up?!
And after my latest incident, I feel like they're just trying to get out of paying for everything. Is this what they do? I think the sooner Northern lose their franchise, the better.

Chris

Technically, Northern are right. You are entitled to the full refund of your fare, because you did not travel.

 

[yorkie]

At the end of November, I had an issue travelling to work from my local station, Hattersley, where a Northern Rail train did not show up. I waited around for half an hour after the due time - nothing (there was actually meant to be another train in that period too).

After that 30mins, the worker in the ticket office gave everyone some info - a train had broken down on the line and was blocking everything. He said he had no idea how long it would take to fix.

I ended up going and paying for a bus (1hr journey. Train is usually 20mins). For all I knew, I could have been waiting there for hours.

My delay repay claim for this eventually got rejected! They said, because I did not complete the journey by train. I thought this was ridiculous at the time - how am I meant to complete my journey by train, when no train shows up?!
And after my latest incident, I feel like they're just trying to get out of paying for everything. Is this what they do? I think the sooner Northern lose their franchise, the better.

Chris

If the ticket went unused, then a full refund is available from the retailer (was this Northern?)

If it was a return ticket, 50% of the value should be refunded.

If it was a Season ticket, then that's a bit different, and it should be treated as a Delay Repay claim.

 

[mmh]

High time delay repay and refunds were taken out of the hands of TOCs and just dealt with centrally - why can't the RDG be doing this? Far too many stories of "this wasn't our fault, go there" or incorrect and inconsistent rule interpretation.

The terms for a ticket seller should also mean they handle refunds/repay for any ticket they've sold too, to end the nonsense of trainline/trainsplit/random TOC directing people to companies they've had no transaction with. They can deal with their internal chargebacks however they want - why should the passenger care?

 

[mmh]

On a happier note, some TOCs don't quibble about how you apply for a refund. Before Christmas, I applied for "delay repay" from TFW when all trains from Llandudno were cancelled one evening for the return leg of a journey. (RTT showed that eventually they did run a couple, but by then I'd long given up and got a bus)

I got a full refund.

 

[Starmill]

I don't agree with Northern, or some of the comments above.

If they didn't provide a train for 60 minutes, they were required to provide alternative transport if there wasn't another suitable train coming.

If they didn't do that, and you provided your own, and your own alternative transport subjected you to a qualifying delay, then the company are on the hook to pay delay repay in the same way as if they'd organised you a taxi.

Of course, if you hadn't used your ticket for any other part of the journey then a refund would be better for you.

I've had a situation before where I made my outward journey, then the return train was cancelled so I waited for more than an hour, then as there was no sign of a train coming ended up walking back instead of using a train. I would have not been entitled to much refund because I'd used the outward portion, but I claimed Delay Repay for the delay incurred by the walk.

If cancellation(s) means you're facing a delay of more than an hour, and the company declines your reasonable request for an alternative, it's them that have committed the breach, not you. Making your own arrangement could result in a consequential loss claim against them, but even if you choose not to pursue one, it cannot disqualify you from delay compensation.

 

[221129]

If they didn't provide a train for 60 minutes, they were required to provide alternative transport if there wasn't another suitable train coming.

Source please?

 

[SteveM70]

To be fair to Northern, I got a delay repay approved when I couldn’t complete my journey because the line was flooded. Or maybe they approved it because it was effectively not their money they were refunding

 

[Starmill]

Source please?

The EU Passenger Rights Obligations, the UK's exemption for which recently expired.

 

[AM9]

The EU Passenger Rights Obligations, the UK's exemption for which recently expired.

Ironically, just before the UK government gets ready to ignore EU rights legislation.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

That is also correct. You can't claim for a journey you didn't make.

Indeed, the OP couldn't if they had decided to abandon the journey. But the fact that they decided to make their own alternative transport arrangements doesn't mean they abandoned their journey, it just means they stepped in where the TOC was unwilling or unable to help them.

If a situation like this occurs (i.e. a long delay with no indication of alternative transport being provided) it is often worth considering the best approach. Sometimes that is to apply for a refund, thus discharging the TOC from any further obligation but obtaining a full refund of the relevant portion of the ticket. Other times it is better to remedy the TOC's breach by making your own alternative transport arrangements and then accordingly claim delay compensation and, if relevant, any reasonably incurred expenses in doing so.

 

[TurbostarFan]

If the ticket went unused, then a full refund is available from the retailer (was this Northern?)

If it was a return ticket, 50% of the value should be refunded.

If it was a Season ticket, then that's a bit different, and it should be treated as a Delay Repay claim.

I thought that for a return ticket only the difference in price between a single and return fare, less a possible £10.00 admin fee would be refundable.

 

[island]

That would be the usual case for a passenger choosing not to make their return journey for their own reasons. If the non-use was due to disruption, you will generally be able to allocate the values of the journeys on a 50-50 basis.

 

[tomwills98]

On a happier note, some TOCs don't quibble about how you apply for a refund. Before Christmas, I applied for "delay repay" from TFW when all trains from Llandudno were cancelled one evening for the return leg of a journey. (RTT showed that eventually they did run a couple, but by then I'd long given up and got a bus) I got a full refund.

We do care where it comes from. If our train's late causing a delay, delay repay compensation applies. If the journey is abandoned and never made, a refund is needed from the retailer. As you were making your return journey, you would have got home so the comp would have been based on the next train service.

High time delay repay and refunds were taken out of the hands of TOCs and just dealt with centrally - why can't the RDG be doing this? Far too many stories of "this wasn't our fault, go there" or incorrect and inconsistent rule interpretation.

We can't refund a ticket we haven't sold. You would buy a jumper from Tesco then ask for a refund from Marks, same applies with TOCs and ticket retailers

 

[L401CJF]

I was travelling from Lime Street - Barrow in Furness November 2018 for a ride up the coast on the 37 hauled service, tickets booked via Virgin trains. First leg was Northern to Wigan NW, then Virgin to Lancaster, then Northern again to BIF. I arrived to Wigan on time, the service to Lancaster was delayed by approx 20 mins (I believe they had signalled it behind a late running Crewe to Liverpool stopper north of Crewe according to the station staff). As a result of this, I would miss my connection at Lancaster for Barrow. Not the end of the world as the Barrow service an hour behind at Lancaster would have been adequate to get me there in time for the 37 hauled service. Unfortunatley a quick look on Real Time Trains showed the later service between Lancaster and Barrow had been cancelled. I therefore decided it would be pointless heading further and caught the next service back to Liverpool and went home.

As soon as I got home about 2 hours later, I got straight onto Virgin trains live chat ( I thought delay repay wasn't quite what I needed as I wasn't delayed, I had to abort the journey due to a delay and a cancellation on 2 of the 3 booked services.), I explained the situation to the advisor, explained that I had used my tickets as far as Wigan, aborted the journey due to delay, which would mean missing a connection and the later service cancelled making my journey pointless, and that I had returned back home with the return ticket so my tickets would both have been read at the Lime St barriers. She checked, confirmed what I had said was correct, double checked the delay and cancellation, then issued me a full refund for the entire journey.

I had also prebooked the Cumbrian Coast section for the 37s separatley through Northern, which of course I didnt use as I only got as far as Wigan. I decided to get onto Northern about refunding them, explained the same situation and how I didn't get to use them. They asked me to return the tickets to an address so they could be 'read' (presumably to see if they had been put through a barrier or not?) and then a refund would be issued. I did get the tickets fully refunded.

I was more than satisfied with the result and used the money to rebook the trip for a couple of weeks later.