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Delay repay with M Card

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bobblebob

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Anyone had success claiming delay repay with a West Yorkshire M Card recently?

Fed up of Northern trains constantly cancelled and having 4 hourly trains in a row cancelled the other month was the tipping point. As someone who never bothered trying to claim delay compensation as multi modal cards were never part of the scheme, i thought i would try my luck but my claim was rejected for this reason.

Comsidering how much i use the trains and how so many are cancelled, the compensation itself would pay off a chuck of my card each month.
 
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_toommm_

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You can't claim Delay Repay as such - claiming it via the Northern Delay Repay portal will get it declined pretty quickly.

Instead, you need to email them and state you wish to claim under the 'Consumer Rights Act' (CRA) as they have failed to provide the service advertised. If the delay was in the remit of Northern's control I.e. a broken down Northern train etc., they will compensate you with the free tickets. If it is something outside of their control e.g. signal failure/congestion etc. then they won't.

It can take a few weeks for them to reply, and they may even have to contact the relevant depot to find out the real reason for the delay so it can be a lengthy process; but it is definitely worth it. When I claimed, I normally did it at the end of the week so the claim(s) were amalgamated into one email for me to keep track of easier. I would also take some proof of the delay, either through an app such as TheTrainLine, or a screenshot of RealTimeTrains incase of any disputed claims.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Anyone had success claiming delay repay with a West Yorkshire M Card recently?

Fed up of Northern trains constantly cancelled and having 4 hourly trains in a row cancelled the other month was the tipping point. As someone who never bothered trying to claim delay compensation as multi modal cards were never part of the scheme, i thought i would try my luck but my claim was rejected for this reason.

Comsidering how much i use the trains and how so many are cancelled, the compensation itself would pay off a chuck of my card each month.
It's worth pointing out that, in addition to any remedy you have under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the National Rail Conidtions of Travel (NRCoT) were recently updated so that you are entitled to compensation of 50% of the relevant portion of your ticket if you are delayed by 60+ minutes. The cause of the delay now has no bearing on your eligibility for such compensation. The NRCoT do not allow for any exemption for specific ticket types from such compensation.

Northern seek to exclude such ticket types from their more generous Delay Repay scheme but they cannot change passengers' NRCoT entitlement. The DfT's position that Delay Repay applies to all ticket types seems not to matter to Northern.

I suspect it may take significant escalation for them to pay out such a claim, perhaps even a Court claim. So if you want the cash rather than free tickets, or the cause of the cancellation is not directly Northern's fault, it may be worthwhile to only escalate it that far when you have several incorrectly declined claims. Just remember that you have 28 days to notify them of your claim - but 6 years to actually make a Court claim (assuming you still have the evidence).
 
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yorkie

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Anyone had success claiming delay repay with a West Yorkshire M Card recently?

Fed up of Northern trains constantly cancelled and having 4 hourly trains in a row cancelled the other month was the tipping point. As someone who never bothered trying to claim delay compensation as multi modal cards were never part of the scheme, i thought i would try my luck but my claim was rejected for this reason.

Comsidering how much i use the trains and how so many are cancelled, the compensation itself would pay off a chuck of my card each month.
Delay Repay does apply; see https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-to-compensate-on-multi-modal-tickets.173787/

However Northern refuse to co-operate (no surprise they are set to lose the franchise), but if you mention the Consumer Rights Act 2015 they will at least pay something, even if it's not the full amount due.

Northern will try every trick in the book to try to get out of their obligations though; for example
https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1210515262363058177
Delay repay cannot be claimed as buses have been provided and they take longer to travel than trains
They may use this argument either if you have a multi-modal ticket and get a service bus, or if they put a rail replacement bus on the route. However if using the bus results in a delay of a qualifying length, compensation is payable.
 

bobblebob

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My MCard is also zone 2-5 so doesnt cover Leeds. Thats fine as i dont travel to Leeds enough to warrant the extra cost. However when a direct train from Huddersfield to Wakefield is cancelled, i have to either wait for the next hourly service, get a bus that takes forever or hop on a train home via Leeds

Ive refused to pay to travel through Leeds before due to Northern cancelling the non Leeds train. Not sure legally where i stand but most conductors understand
 

yorkie

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My MCard is also zone 2-5 so doesnt cover Leeds. Thats fine as i dont travel to Leeds enough to warrant the extra cost. However when a direct train from Huddersfield to Wakefield is cancelled, i have to either wait for the next hourly service, get a bus that takes forever or hop on a train home via Leeds

Ive refused to pay to travel through Leeds before due to Northern cancelling the non Leeds train. Not sure legally where i stand but most conductors understand
It's worth asking them if ticket acceptance is in place, but it's unacceptable to say you should wait an hour. How much time would taking the bus add to your journey?

I'd write to your MP about this; include the quote from the thread I linked to, and point out that Northern are not complying with the Government's instructions.

Make it clear what your alternatives are, how much time you will add and that it's not right that Northern refuse to allow a reasonable alternative without charging you.

Another option is to pay for a replacement ticket on a credit card and do a chargeback if Northern refuse to refund it, but this may annoy the bank. It may be worth discussing with your bank. Perhaps a better solution is to make a small claim against Northern. If the charges happen often, you could perhaps amalgamate 3 months worth of charges into one claim.

Before you pay for a ticket, obtain evidence that the delay did occur, and also evidence that ticket acceptance was not in place, thus forcing you to buy the additional fare. Also buy the fare from Northern themselves, so that it is Northern who you claim the money back for, and avoiding an innocent third party retailer in the the dispute.
 

bobblebob

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The bus takes 1 hour 10 mins (train takes 30), but only run every 30 mins, so if the train is cancelled i can be waiting up to 30 mins for the bus.

Ive never purchased the additional ticket to cover me through Leeds - as like i say i refuse when its Northern forcing me to go that route. However very few conductors come round checking tickets from trains leaving Leeds
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Ive never purchased the additional ticket to cover me through Leeds - as like i say i refuse when its Northern forcing me to go that route. However very few conductors come round checking tickets from trains leaving Leeds
That's clearly morally supportable but unfortunately I doubt that it would be seen that way if Northern decided to send some RPIs round between Leeds and the first Zone 2 station. You might then find yourself the subject of a Penalty Fare, or worse, due to Northern's incompetence.

It's a no-win situation unless you are willing to enforce your rights through the Courts where necessary.
 

yorkie

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That's clearly morally supportable but unfortunately I doubt that it would be seen that way if Northern decided to send some RPIs round between Leeds and the first Zone 2 station. You might then find yourself the subject of a Penalty Fare, or worse, due to Northern's incompetence.

It's a no-win situation unless you are willing to enforce your rights through the Courts where necessary.
It may also strengthen your case to write to Northern and ask them to clarify if they would issue a PF if you did this.

If you can gather evidence along the lines that Northern say you have no option but to wait 1 hour or pay again, and that if you wait 1 hour you will not be given Delay Repay compensation (which we know is wrong, but they are likely to say that), and if you do use the alternative route without paying again, you will get a Penalty Fare, this would all support your case that they are acting unreasonably.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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If you can gather evidence along the lines that Northern say you have no option but to wait 1 hour or pay again, and that if you wait 1 hour you will not be given Delay Repay compensation (which we know is wrong, but they are likely to say that), and if you do use the alternative route without paying again, you will get a Penalty Fare, this would all support your case that they are acting unreasonably.
It might, I suppose, give rise to—
there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the appellant should not be liable to pay the penalty fare
which would be one ground of appeal against a Penalty Fare, under Regulation 16(3)(d).

Unfortunately this would be of no comfort if Northern decided to prosecute under Byelaw 18 and/or RoRA, as it would not raise a defence.
 

Starmill

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The company may not refuse valid claims for delay compensation under NRCoT. To do so would be breach of contract. They may or may not be required to pay under Delay Repay, my view is that they are, some people take a different view. There can be no argument that they must pay under NRCoT, however.
 

bristollh

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29 Sep 2019
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Warrington
Given what I was reading here I was sceptical but TPE have just paid out delay repay of £4.50 against a £9.00 West Yorkshire bus and train day rover (issued as an M card branded scratch card from a bus station) after I was caught up in the chaos near Mirfield a couple of Saturdays ago and arrived Huddersfield from Leeds 109 mins late. No arguments or appeals.

Jeff
 
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