Delay Repay?

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Indigo, 13 Apr 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Indigo

    Indigo New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    13 Apr 2015
    I usually travel on the 0810 from Grove Park (GRP) to Charing Cross (CHX).

    This morning, overrunning engineering works meant that there was significant disruption to all trains through London Bridge.

    Before reaching the station, I checked the online departure board for GRP and realised that there were problems, so returned home, preferring to avoid what was likely to have been a long and uncomfortable journey.

    I kept an eye on the departure boards, and eventually decided to aim for the 1103 which was cancelled after I left home. I arrived at the station a little after 1130.

    The next CHX bound train turned out to be the 1133, which arrived at GRP at 1156 and eventually arrived at CHX at 1219 - (23 minutes late.)

    Do I have any hope of being able to claim "Delay Repay", since the train I ended up on was actually only 23 minutes late? What would I put on the form?

    It turns out that the 0810 (my usual train) was cancelled and the next direct train from GRP->CHX was at 0933, but was also only 27 minutes late on arrival.

    (All times courtesy of real time trains.)
     
  2. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,334
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    You don't seem to be entitled to compensation in this instance on the face of it. What kind of ticket were you using?
     
  3. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,324
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    I can't see how you would be eligible for Delay Repay as the journey you attempted was only delayed by 23 minutes.
     
  4. Indigo

    Indigo New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    13 Apr 2015
    > What kind of ticket were you using?
    Z1-4 Annual Travelcard on Oyster.

    > I can't see how you would be eligible for Delay Repay as the journey you attempted was only delayed by 23 minutes.
    I feared Southeastern might see it that way.

    To my mind, however, the journey I initially attempted was to catch the 0810 from Grove Park - which was cancelled. I should have arrived at Charing Cross at 0832.

    If I had waited on the platform, the best I could have done* would have been to catch the late running 0813 to Elephant & Castle (arriving at 0919, 39 minutes late) or perhaps the late running 0805 which arrived at London Bridge at 0928 (68 minutes late.)

    In reality, I would have been very surprised to have actually been able to board either of those trains - they're very busy at the best of times and there's only space for a small number of people when there's any disruption.

    The first train after 0810 to actually make it from Grove Park to Charing Cross was the 0933, which arrived at CHX at 1025. This was just 29 minutes late by its schedule, but nearly two hours later than the 0810 - my intended train - was scheduled to arrive.

    It's probably fair to say that I abandoned this journey, and I guess Delay Repay doesn't cover this scenario. Shame.

    ===

    When I left home for the second time, I was aiming for the 1103, which should have arrived at Charing Cross at 1126. As it happened, the 1103 was cancelled on arrival at Grove Park (it was already 41 minutes late); so I caught the 1133 which got me into Charing Cross at 1219.

    Put another way, if the 1103 had been on time, I would have been at Charing Cross at 1126. As it happened, I didn't arrive until 1219 - a delay of 53 minutes.

    Is it really the case that Delay Repay isn't payable in the event that the train you eventually board is "on time" despite the fact that earlier trains were cancelled? Surely any delays should be calculated from when I would have arrived at my final destination (1126) had everything been running to plan. Do I have to wait on the platform in order to be eligible?

    ---


    * - all times are according to real time trains
     
  5. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    34,896
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    If you had actually gone to Grove Park, your intended journey would have been:
    Grove Park 0810
    Charing Cross 0830
    Your actual journey would have been
    Grove Park 0809 ½
    Charing Cross 0922
    You would have been entitled to delay repay.

    However you did not make that journey. Therefore, it is irrelevant.

    If you then intended to catch the 1103 (due into Charing Cross 1126) , and you definitely took the first available train to depart, then I believe you are entitled to delay repay if you arrived at 1156 or later. I believe the next available train was the delayed 1045 (actual departure 1130) arriving 1203, which would qualify for Delay Repay.

    The problem with not waiting at the station is that you can mistakenly make a potentially false/incorrect claim if you believe there was no train and, in reality, there was. That does appear to have happened on this occasion, and therefore it muddies the waters and complicates matters.
     
  6. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

    Messages:
    2,020
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2013
    I think the OP omits an important word which clarifies the matter, and establishes that there is no entitlement to delay repay.
     
  7. maniacmartin

    maniacmartin Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    4,862
    Joined:
    15 May 2012
    Location:
    Purley
    I would claim for the delayed 0810 as your journey was delayed, and still would have been delayed had you gone to the station.
     
  8. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

    Messages:
    2,020
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2013
    The OP did not travel at that time, and was not delayed at that time. A claim would be fradulent.
     
  9. IanD

    IanD Established Member

    Messages:
    2,264
    Joined:
    18 Sep 2011
    Location:
    Newport Pagnell
    I'm sure we've had similar posts about people looking at an app and seeing the train they want to catch is late so they stay in the pub/office and catch a later train and then put in a delay repay claim based on the original train.

    When I called one of the posters on this loads of people jumped to his defence and claimed he was in the right. I believe congratulations were also offered on his ingenuity and ability to make a profit out of staying in the pub.

    I don't see how this thread is any different to those threads so based on the previous comments on the other threads, I don't understand why anything the OP has said is irrelevant to his claim for being delayed.
     
  10. maniacmartin

    maniacmartin Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    4,862
    Joined:
    15 May 2012
    Location:
    Purley
    The Customer Charter and Delay Repay form don't specify that you have to enter the station. I would say that if the OP was intending to travel, already had a ticket and checked the running information from home, then their "Southeastern journey has been delayed by more than 30 minutes".

    Of course, there is no way for the OP to prove that they intended to make such a journey.
     
    Last edited: 16 Apr 2015
  11. Indigo

    Indigo New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    13 Apr 2015
    Thanks for the responses... it seems that a claim is likely to be "involved" and probably not worth the hassle for the £1.60 that was the "prize" for my only other Delay Repay claim.

    I take it that there's no provision (as part of the Delay Repay scheme, or otherwise) for compensation for abandoned journeys, where the choice to abandon was made after purchase of a [period] ticket and as a direct result of "serious" disruption?

    The 1045 was actually a London Bridge / London Cannon Street service; but I wanted to travel to Charing Cross. Do I disqualify myself from Delay Repay if I don't take the first train that's going in vaguely the right direction?

    Of course I could have taken the 1045 and changed somewhere en-route, but given that the information I had at the time was that there was a Charing Cross train a few minutes behind, it seemed reasonable to let the 1045 go. As it was, the 1103 did arrive a few minutes later.. and I nearly sat down(!) before they announced that it was being taken out of service.

    I'm not sure I understand this point Clearly it would be unsporting and outside the spirit of Delay Repay to go searching for delayed trains to catch... but that's not what happened. (And I know that's not what you're suggesting I did.)

    Indeed - that feels like the right thing to do "morally speaking", although there's some feeling that to do so would be outside the rules. Practically speaking, my Oyster record wouldn't show me as touching in until 1130, so there'd instantly be a problem.

    If it came down to it, I suspect the fact that I usually make that journey at that time most days of most weeks would put that beyond reasonable doubt. :)

    Thanks again - and apologies for not knowing how to quote properly :-\
     
  12. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    34,896
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I think we would need to know what time the passenger intended to travel, and compare that to when they actually travelled.

    If you intend to depart at 0800, and no train departs that station until 1100, and you are watching events and arrive in time for that first train, then that's a legitimate claim.

    However if you intend to depart at 0800, and a train departs at, say, 0810 which doesn't qualify you for Delay Repay, and you arrive in time for a train departing at 1100, then the claim cannot reasonably be that your actual arrival is a delay in relation to the originally intended arrival time.
    I agree, but by not entering the station you do risk a train unexpectedly providing a journey opportunity, and it wouldn't be correct to deny that this journey opportunity existed. So, yes, you can do this (and I sometimes will), but it comes with risks.

    For example if my train was the 1802 York-London and I noted the inbound arrival was due to arrive 1815, and I chose not to arrive at York station until 1815, we departed at 1825, got further delayed and arrived 31 minutes late, it's questionable whether a Delay Repay claim would be valid, if the preceding non-stop train due at 1757 departed at 1802 and passengers for London were told they should catch it, and assuming there were sufficient seats available for them. Would a Delay Repay claim be appropriate, if you made choices which meant you did not take the Company up on an offer not to be delayed?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I don't think so.

    Under the old scheme (still in use at other Train Companies, e.g. South West Trains) it was arguably better for Season ticket holders making short, but frequently served, journeys, as a day like that would probably be declared a "void day". This meant you got a free day when you next renewed (irrespective of whether you actually travelled or not, or indeed whether you were delayed or not).

    That's a good question which may be difficult to answer. To cover myself I'd seek staff advice. If it was not possible to do this (e.g. help point not working or not responding, ticket office unstaffed or long queues) then I would try to adopt a common sense approach (and each journey is different) and if my chosen option wasn't the best, I'd note it wasn't possible to obtain advice.
    If the next train wasn't a slower train and was advertised as being just behind, then that sounds reasonable to me to wait for it.
    Agreed.
    Indeed. But there is no harm in a brief, concise letter explaining the circumstances.

    Indeed, and may well result in 'discretion' or a 'common sense' approach being shown. That's not something we can easily debate here!
    No worries :)
     
  13. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

    Messages:
    2,020
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2013
    I am suggesting that when you say you went for the 1103 train, you did not arrive at the station before 1103, but before the time you believed it would arrive based on its delay according to the app or whatever you were following. IN the event that it arrived at Grove Park and was then cancelled, I think it may be reasonable to base your claim on that particular time, because that is when your journey should have started.
     
  14. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    4,907
    Joined:
    15 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Crayford
    In normal circumstances it would naturally be a good idea to get a train calling at London Bridge to change for Charing Cross, but of course we are at the start of three years of very abnormal circumstances. If a following train of any description (faster or slower) is expected within 10-20 minutes then I would hope that Southeastern would expect people to wait rather than join the overcrowded Underground network for alternative options. Indeed the advice for most commuters is to try and catch a train going to the correct terminal and only to change at places like Lewisham or use the Underground if there really isn't any other option.
     
  15. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,334
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    There is a tick box on the Southeastern delay claim form for "abandoned journey".

    Just putting that one out there without comment.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page