Delays due to train failures in the BR era.

[Cowley]

After reading about the absolute nightmare that passengers experienced due to the wires coming down near Peterborough on the 23rd of September I was wondering what experiences people had of failures during the 'golden' era of BR?
I can remember plenty of trains turning up in Exeter with either failed HST power cars requiring an assisting loco, or trains that had had a locomotive fail en route with a replacement loco being provided (sometimes a freight loco with the dead locomotive still on the train but no heating/aircon being supplied).
On the display boards these trains could often show as running many minutes late, and I mean many. I think I remember an Aberdeen service being 200 minutes late once. Yet it wasn't cancelled, possibly due to the fact that the stock had to get to it's destination anyway?

I was never on a train that bought the wires down in that era (I'm talking late 80s/early 90s), however I can remember a few incidents of failed trains that I was on and they were all sorted out quickly - mainly due to there being nearby and available spare locos back then.
These are the ones I can remember offhand:

1) 47491 grinding to a halt on Dainton Bank having had a main generator flashover. About an hours delay while 47637 (47826 in new money) was summoned from Exeter to push us to Totnes and run round before heading on to Plymouth.

2) 47809 gave up at Pinhoe and 47813 was quickly rustled up from Exeter to rescue us. Less than an hours delay from what I remember.

3) 47846 - failed at Banbury on a cross country train from Paddington with fire bells ringing. Everyone got off and caught the following train an hour later.

I remember hearing stories of 37s on the Far North line failing or even worse, getting stuck in snow drifts. I think it was so bad after a blizzard up there once that people were stuck on a train for over 24 hours.

Does anyone else have any memories of when things didn't quite go according to plan? I'd love to hear about any massive disastrous delays if you ever had any?

 

[Mag_seven]

A couple of notable ones from my "memory bank" all from the mid/late 80's:

1. 87006 failing just south of Rugby on the UP "Royal Scot". A Class 56 then proceeded to drag the whole train to Euston.

2. An Class 303 EMU failing just short of Uddingston station and the unit being subsequently pushed into the station by a couple of 37's on a Hunterston-Ravenscraig Iron Ore train.

3. An "out of the box" 90028 failing just short of Motherwell on a Euston-Glasgow service. A class 37 was summonsed from Motherwell TMD which then proceeded to drag the train to Glasgow.

I'm sure there are others which I will add as they come to mind.

 

[Ianno87]

April 1996. Coming back from Belfast to Bolton via Stranraer and Carlisle.

An 87 hauling our ICWC train from Carlisle to Preston failing north of Carlisle, with a long, cold wait on Carlisle station resulting.

Carlisle thunderbird (a RES 47/7) sent to rescue eventually turning up to haul train south.

Also:
-Being stuck at Dinting for 45 minutes on a lovely summers evening due to a failed 305 further ahead.
-My last ever memory of getting on a 304 was at Stockport...and goung nowhere when it soon failed.

 

[DerekC]

I recall some time in early 1972 being detrained from a Lea Valley line train close to Hackney Downs station because of a "wires down" incident. We eventually walked along the track to the station and caught an Enfield line train into Liverpool Street. Getting people out of the train took a long time, I remember - it was my first day at a new job and my employer was distinctly unimpressed by my turning up a couple of hours late. No mobile phone to call him from!

My other similar memory is the third rail equivalent from right at the end of the BR era - not sure of the date, but our 442 heading for Waterloo managed to get its shoegear in a twist to the extent that it damaged the conductor rail. The train happened to stop with its rearmost door just on the end of the disused up fast platform at Esher. So we all ten cars worth detrained in orderly fashion through the end door. We then walked up onto the footbridge, where the gate that had been installed to prevent access to the disused platform would only open enough to allow one person at a time to squeeze round it - which we duly did, again in good order. Then over to the up slow and onto whatever stopper happened to be trundling in. The whole process took well over an hour even once the order to detrain had been given!

The main difference from today that I can recall is how little grumbling there was from the passengers - it seemed to be accepted as just one of those things.

 

[randyrippley]

In Warship days the chance of a breakdown on the Waterloo-Exeter seemed to be about one in three.....maybe an exaggeration but that's what it seemed like.
Luckily there was nearly always a Hymek at Salisbury or Westbury (or occasionally a 33) which could be borrowed to resolve things, but even then there was usually a 90 minute wait before the relief arrived.
Of course it wasn't unusual for the relieving loco to arrive at the rear...being pushed to Salisbury can take a long time. Arrival at destination could be three hours late, with complete disruption to the rest of the service

 

[Cowley]

The main difference from today that I can recall is how little grumbling there was from the passengers - it seemed to be accepted as just one of those things.

That's how I remember the failures I experienced too. Just a quiet train with the odd rustling of a newspaper while everyone waited for it to get sorted out. No constant texts going etc...
It did help that if you were in the middle of nowhere you could get up and go and stare at the tracks back and forth out of the window and then settle on watching some cows in a field for a bit. Quite relaxing really.

 

[gingerheid]

I've been reminiscing a lot recently, and this was one of the things I've been thinking of. I remember many intercity journeys having very long delays, but always somehow limping there (with or without heating).

Hypothesis: Stock was simpler and standardised. It was easier to drag a train of Mark 2s to somewhere the loco could be replaced with something else the driver could also drive? And the network was less crowded and there was more slack, so it was feasible to do this?

Nowadays we couldn't see a 390 dragged to Brum NS where a non-existent spare loco from a 221 that wouldn't be compatible and that the original driver couldn't take over wouldn't be available to take the train to somewhere the non existent 221's loco couldn't be maintained, after some shunting and coupling exercises there wouldn't be capacity in the station for?

And this is also one of the reasons we can't have trains like Glasgow - Harwich?

 

[jon0844]

Surely this thread is a joke? We all know NO trains ever failed in the BR days.

Everything was sweet and ran like clockwork.

Now can we close this thread and carry on?

 

[36270k]

Class 307 bringing wires down at Liverpool Street at 1700, home via Fenchurch St
Class 47 catching fire at Witham
Class 47 throwing con rod, black oil down the side on the coaches, retrieved by Class 31
Cravens DMU catching fire at Colchester.
Class 309 bringing wires down at Shenfield, home via Cambridge

 

[eastwestdivide]

Early 80s, such delays on the cross-country routes (XC now) would often result in a part-route relief/substitute train. Unfortunately this could well be whatever DMU they could rustle up, resulting in things like the Tyseley 116s ending up at Reading or Sheffield.
If you were out and about, it was a big debate whether to catch the relief and carry on with plan "A" or wait for the main train and gamble on an unusual loco as a replacement for the failed one.
Will try and find some examples from my notebooks later.

 

[Marklund]

Late 70s, going north to visit relatives.
Kings Cross to Edinburgh.

Deltic was taken off at Newcastle, and a 47 was put on, the deltic wasn't obviously a failure.
47 failed (near where the tunnel collapsed in the borders a year or so later).
Waited hours for 2x31s arrived and limped in hours late to Waverley.

 

[Ianno87]

That's how I remember the failures I experienced too. Just a quiet train with the odd rustling of a newspaper while everyone waited for it to get sorted out. No constant texts going etc...
It did help that if you were in the middle of nowhere you could get up and go and stare at the tracks back and forth out of the window and then settle on watching some cows in a field for a bit. Quite relaxing really.

You waited til you got home then wrote a letter to the complaints department. That's what my Mum did!

 

[plarailfan]

I worked on the station at Huddersfield from 1979 through to 1986 and sadly, many trains expired during my time there.
It got a lot worse when the Woodhead route closed, because the MGR coal trains to Fiddlers Ferry were sent via Healey Mills and Diggle. The class 56's were flogged to death on the heavy trains heading up the Colne Valley to Marsden.
Some 56's sat down before the climb up the valley https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...3XN-RAAaZw-6NYKMc-6P3LeS-6P3PWf-8rFHU3-837a9p
DMU's were worn out as well - here's half a Trans-Pennine set, with a Cravens tacked on the rear https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...RVC-pmQVS1-paDudH-qzLWwZ-7Qq48e-7cV1bu-neqQNx
Here's a good one with 31 198 doing the honours https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...3XN-RAAaZw-6NYKMc-6P3LeS-6P3PWf-8rFHU3-837a9p
There were many other nightmares, but now, I can look back rather fondly on all the haulage opportunites and wish we still had them available to us today !

 

[Cowley]

I worked on the station at Huddersfield from 1979 through to 1986 and sadly, many trains expired during my time there.
It got a lot worse when the Woodhead route closed, because the MGR coal trains to Fiddlers Ferry were sent via Healey Mills and Diggle. The class 56's were flogged to death on the heavy trains heading up the Colne Valley to Marsden.
Some 56's sat down before the climb up the valley https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...3XN-RAAaZw-6NYKMc-6P3LeS-6P3PWf-8rFHU3-837a9p
DMU's were worn out as well - here's half a Trans-Pennine set, with a Cravens tacked on the rear https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...RVC-pmQVS1-paDudH-qzLWwZ-7Qq48e-7cV1bu-neqQNx
Here's a good one with 31 198 doing the honours https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...3XN-RAAaZw-6NYKMc-6P3LeS-6P3PWf-8rFHU3-837a9p
There were many other nightmares, but now, I can look back rather fondly on all the haulage opportunites and wish we still had them available to us today !

I love the one with the Cravens tacked onto the Trans-Pennine. I've not seen that happen before.

 

[plarailfan]

You're welcome buddy - you might like this pic of a white & blue livery Metro Cammell tacked on to a Trans-Pennine https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...9is-7VVRVC-7VSAuV-pmQVS1-paDudH-qzLWwZ-7Qq48e
and here's an occasion that 'our' station shunter failed and a 47 took it away to Healey Mills https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294...pCR-8Pd1Lu-8yHXYy-dYKbeM-7qxZtK-6NueY7-6TX7xR

 

[edwin_m]

I recall travelling Euston to Manchester in the back cab of an 87 in 1988 while monitoring some experimental kit. Soon after I arrived and was looking for the train back to Nottingham, it became clear that the freight out of Trafford had failed somewhere around Oxford Road. They borrowed the loco I'd come in on to drag it out - not something you could do with a Pendolino! Needless to say this caused most through trains to be delayed by an hour or more.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A 52 on a Paignton - Cardiff failing at Newton Abbot and assisted forward after 40 mins by a 46.

 

[D400.50050]

Cant remember the exact date, late 80's..

Returning home from Basingstoke to Newton Abbot, D400 was in charge, everything was fine till we reached Honiton. The Last Basingstoke Service failed on the Single Section between Whimple and Pinhoe. They sent a 37 from Exeter to push the failed train into Honiton, however the 37 couldn't push it up the hill, so in the end D400 was removed from our train to drag it into Honiton and beyond (not sure if it made the full journey or got capped somewhere, anyhow, the 37 took us the remainder of the journey to Exeter.

We arrive if I can remember that far back around 170 minutes late, which meant we missed the last service South to Newton Abbot. So we had to have a Taxi back to Newton Abbot.. Although as there was 5 of us (Family) I was only 8 or 9 at the time, the youngest being just under 1 the Driver wasn't going to deposit us at Newton Abbot at 2am, so took us home to Kingskerswell (thanks to BR)

I do remember the train being wedged from the start and it was standing room only from Basingstoke, so the Guard allowed us to have a First Class Compartment for the trip. So wasn't all bad (other than loosing my Fav loco 2/3rds of the way home)

 

[ooo]

Was there any kind of delay compensation during BR times?

 

[DerekC]

I am pretty sure there were more failures, but there was more of a "can-do" attitude then. The staff took it as their job to get the train to its destination somehow, even if that meant bending the rules a bit - and their ability to clear up a mess quickly was quite astonishing.

It's a bit off-topic but while looking up something else I came across the report of an accident that happened at King's Langley at about 11pm on 13th March 1935. It involved four freight trains, blocked three tracks and ended up with a pile of wreckage 120 yards long. Sadly one of the drivers died. I can't do better than quote Lt.Col Mount:

Notwithstanding such interference with normal operation, the delay and inconvenience occasioned to the public, both in respect of passenger and goods transit, was reduced to comparatively small proportions, and the success of the arrangements for diversion of traffic, which were promptly put into operation in conjunction with the Great Western Railway and The London Passenger Transport Board, reflect credit on everyone concerned. The majority of the Western 'Division up express passenger trains were handled at St. Pancras Station on the 14th, having travelled over the Midland Division via. Nuneaton and Wigston; the down express passenger trains despatched from Euston on that date also travelled over the Midland Division, reversal at Acton Wells being thus involved. On the fifteenth, down passenger trains, with few exceptions, ran from Euston, and, although a few of the up trains were still diverted into St. Pancras in the morning, normal working was practically restored during the day. and it was completely resumed at Euston by about 6.0 pm

By modern standards this is an astonishing achievement. The ability to divert comes from more resilience and more slack in the network, but how did they clear the line and get it back up and running in less than 48 hours?

 

[plarailfan]

Was there any kind of delay compensation during BR times?

There didn't seem to be a specific system of dealing with compensation back in those days. A complaint letter to the area manager might result in a travel voucher for, money off the irate travellers next rail journey, although taxis, or rail replacement bus services might be arranged to keep passengers moving over short distances, but quite honestly it was more often than not, just a chaotic shambles and many passengers just resigned themselves to the disruption until it cleared.
I well remember the Huddersfield station supervisor, 'phoning control, to let them know there were passengers for Manchester airport (long before the station was built there) also, we often had passengers hoping to connect with the ferry from Holyhead to Dublin/Dun Laoghaire.
Thankfully, rail services are usually far more reliable these days.....

 

[Busaholic]

My wedding day in 1969. Married at Preston Register Office 2 p.m. followed by reception. Parents-in-law accompanied my new wife and I to Preston Station for an approx. 7 p.m. departure to London. A derailment near Carnforth(?) meant our train arrived approx. midnight - in to Euston at about 3 a.m. Then a taxi ride around half of London when we were the final passengers out of the taxi about 5 a.m. It was also the first time in our bedsit in a shared house, so trying to find door keys and positioning of light switches, etc didn't endear ourselves to new neighbours!

P.S. Although this journey sticks in the mind for obvious reasons, it is by no means the longest delayed journey I've been involved in, and even less so in the case of my wife, but they've all been in the privatised era.

 

[PaxmanValenta]

I've been reminiscing a lot recently, and this was one of the things I've been thinking of. I remember many intercity journeys having very long delays, but always somehow limping there (with or without heating).

Hypothesis: Stock was simpler and standardised. It was easier to drag a train of Mark 2s to somewhere the loco could be replaced with something else the driver could also drive? And the network was less crowded and there was more slack, so it was feasible to do this?

Nowadays we couldn't see a 390 dragged to Brum NS where a non-existent spare loco from a 221 that wouldn't be compatible and that the original driver couldn't take over wouldn't be available to take the train to somewhere the non existent 221's loco couldn't be maintained, after some shunting and coupling exercises there wouldn't be capacity in the station for?

And this is also one of the reasons we can't have trains like Glasgow - Harwich?

I dread to think what it's gonna be like when the class 800 Hitachis replace the HSTs. I fear they will have the same problems as the voyagers. Couplings incompatible with conventional locomotives meaning only a small amount of rescue locomotives with the coupling adaptors and delays finding a rescue loco. I mean any loco can haul an HST but these Bombardier Voyagers and Hitachis are a different kettle of fish.
Will the 800s cope with Dawlish sea wall and water getting into their electronics systems?


I long for the days when Britain designs and builds its own locomotives and rolling stock like we used to!

 

[ooo]

I dread to think what it's gonna be like when the class 800 Hitachis replace the HSTs. I fear they will have the same problems as the voyagers. Couplings incompatible with conventional locomotives meaning only a small amount of rescue locomotives with the coupling adaptors and delays finding a rescue loco. I mean any loco can haul an HST but these Bombardier Voyagers and Hitachis are a different kettle of fish.
Will the 800s cope with Dawlish sea wall and water getting into their electronics systems?


I long for the days when Britain designs and builds its own locomotives and rolling stock like we used to!

How often are rescue locos actually used though?

I believe the Hitachi IEPs had coping with sea water as a specific design requirement so they don't suffer in the same way as voyagers.

 

[sprinterguy]

I dread to think what it's gonna be like when the class 800 Hitachis replace the HSTs. I fear they will have the same problems as the voyagers. Couplings incompatible with conventional locomotives meaning only a small amount of rescue locomotives with the coupling adaptors and delays finding a rescue loco. I mean any loco can haul an HST but these Bombardier Voyagers and Hitachis are a different kettle of fish.
Will the 800s cope with Dawlish sea wall and water getting into their electronics systems?

All of the Hitachi sets have at least one diesel engine, so they can get themselves out of trouble, no rescue loco required.

As ooo says, the ability to contend with salt water was included in the IEP specification.

 

[randyrippley]

All of the Hitachi sets have at least one diesel engine, so they can get themselves out of trouble, no rescue loco required.
........

Try thinking about that one again.....
ONE diesel engine, just like most of the BR-era trains. And don't forget having two diesels didn't stop the Warships from breaking down

 

[SouthDevonian]

I think 1975 was the worst year for train failures for me. In January, I was returning from Scotland to the West Midlands when the Glasgow-Birmingham was delayed for over an hour at Carstairs because the Edinburgh portion had failed.

Next a 47 hauled excursion in the Spring from the West Midlands to Tenby failed before Pembrey on the outward journey. A 37 propelled us into Pembrey, removed the 47 and took us on to Tenby although it struggled on the banks between Whitland & Tenby. It returned us as far as Cardiff where another 47 took over.

A later West Midlands excursion was to Ramsgate. On the return the 33 failed before Herne Bay and we were propelled to Herne Bay by the following EMU where its passengers were detrained. It then pushed the excursion train (ie. 33+11 coaches+8 car EMU) to the approach to Faversham station where a replacement 33 took over just the excursion for the run to Mitre Bridge via the Catford Loop.

A final excursion that year was to Llandudno, again from the West Midlands. On the return, the electric loco, which had come on at Crewe, failed north of Wolverhampton. After about an hour, another electric was attached and took us forward.

 

[Cowley]

I think 1975 was the worst year for train failures for me. In January, I was returning from Scotland to the West Midlands when the Glasgow-Birmingham was delayed for over an hour at Carstairs because the Edinburgh portion had failed.

Next a 47 hauled excursion in the Spring from the West Midlands to Tenby failed before Pembrey on the outward journey. A 37 propelled us into Pembrey, removed the 47 and took us on to Tenby although it struggled on the banks between Whitland & Tenby. It returned us as far as Cardiff where another 47 took over.

A later West Midlands excursion was to Ramsgate. On the return the 33 failed before Herne Bay and we were propelled to Herne Bay by the following EMU where its passengers were detrained. It then pushed the excursion train (ie. 33+11 coaches+8 car EMU) to the approach to Faversham station where a replacement 33 took over just the excursion for the run to Mitre Bridge via the Catford Loop.

A final excursion that year was to Llandudno, again from the West Midlands. On the return, the electric loco, which had come on at Crewe, failed north of Wolverhampton. After about an hour, another electric was attached and took us forward.

Blimey. That was an unlucky year! Interesting to hear of your 33 tour being pushed by an EMU. I suppose that used to happen sometimes but it must have been a fairly rare occurrence?

 

[DerekC]

As ooo says, the ability to contend with salt water was included in the IEP specification.

Well yes, but of course having it in the specification is one thing and demonstrating it works day in day out is another.

 

[Cowley]

Looking at what's happening on the ECML tonight brings all this into focus somewhat. Oh for a couple of spare locos at Gateshead and Haymarket plus a couple of rakes of spare coaches at Craigentinny...