Demand Responsive Transport

[TheManOnThe172]

I've been looking for resources that track the successes and failures of Demand Responsive Transport (DRT) in the UK - but I've not found anything substantial.

Schemes come and (too often) go, but I can't find any resources that look at the whole picture and seek to work out what works and what doesn't. There are repeated trials, but no obvious exploration of what can be learned from them.

In scientific fields, such as medicine, each trial builds on the experience of its predecessors. In DRT, there seems no synthesis of experience, rather a succession of trials where previous experience is ignored, and the same unicorn-hunting hopes see the burning of startup funding followed by closure as the same lesson is expensively demonstrated again and again.

That lesson seems to be that in the absence of special conditions, DRT is considerably more expensive per passenger than scheduled services - so if you want to replace a scheduled service with DRT you either need to find a lot more money (to provide current bus users - plus others who are attracted by the improved service - with a better-than-scheduled experience), or impose severe rationing where a small proportion of people get a better service, but many more find themselves missing out.

The big question is what special conditions constitute a viable exception to these generalities, and have the realistic prospect that DRT can deliver a lower-cost service. I'd guess that trials such as the PickMeUp service in Oxford were set up in the hope that the increase in convenience delivered such a big jump in ridership that cost per trip dropped to the point where it required only an affordable ongoing subsidy. And as Oxford has shown, that isn't easy to achieve. At the other end of the spectrum, extremely rural scheduled services that average less than one or two passengers might be more cheaply replaced by DRT in cases where the larger fixed-schedule vehicle doesn't have home-to-school journeys in its schedule and so the cost of the DRT vehicle would replace the cost of a larger vehicle (rather than being an additional cost, as is the case in most rural areas where society will still need to fund large vehicles for the school runs). But these are just my guesses - what I am looking for is a list of schemes, how they work(ed), how they have fared, and what lessons can be learned from them.

Any pointers?

 

[PeterC]

I have no inside knowledge but Oxford's PMU service was predicated on providing for journeys to peripheral locations that weren't catered for by the classic radial bus network.

Where I live rural services seem to be built around school journeys and areas that appear ideal for DRT would all still require the same number of classic buses twice a day.

 

[Kevpbus]

The DfT invited expressions of interest from local authorities, working with operators where appropriate, for rural and suburban DRT schemes to run as pilots with detailed monitoring and research on which aspects of the schemes are found to be successful. The EOI deadline closed a week ago and a short list of projects will move on to a second, full business case, stage later in the year.

 

[padbus]

Roger French's https://busandtrainuser.com/ blog might help. He has travelled and reported on most of the recent DRT startups and is is somewhat sceptical about the concept.

 

[GusB]

Roger French's https://busandtrainuser.com/ blog might help. He has travelled and reported on most of the recent DRT startups and is is somewhat sceptical about the concept.

Is there any specific post in Roger French's blog that you think might help? A quotation or two wouldn't go amiss

 

[Hophead]

Is there any specific post in Roger French's blog that you think might help? A quotation or two wouldn't go amiss

If he's good with his admin, the tag DRT should work. The relevant URL is https://busandtrainuser.com/category/drt/

 

[GusB]

If he's good with his admin, the tag DRT should work. The relevant URL is https://busandtrainuser.com/category/drt/

The point I was trying to make was:

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[Taunton]

There is of course a very extensive and longstanding demand responsive system in Britain, and that is taxis. More recently this has become supplemented by Uber etc. In some places this has had a notable negative impact on established public transport, not just recently. Post-deregulation increases in bus fares from traditionally low levels was a notable driver.

Public transport operators trying to move into this market often seems nothing more than an ego exercise by their managements, and supporting politicians, with public money. The actual cost of such schemes seems commonly to be more than if you gave any of their passengers a taxi ride instead.

We seem to have been saved some of the grossly elaborate infrastructure schemes from elsewhere, such as the Morgantown one in the USA, which ended up really being a single route with horizontal-moving, wheeled demand-responsive lift cars (about the same size) on viaducts that would hold up a TGV. Anywhere else would have done a bus route on the streets.

 

[Andy Pacer]

One DRT scheme I was involved with the introduction of was such because of the budgets available in the section 106 funding from housing developers, it was more cost effective than a traditional bus service.

 

[py_megapixel]

We seem to have been saved some of the grossly elaborate infrastructure schemes from elsewhere, such as the Morgantown one in the USA [...] Anywhere else would have done a bus route on the streets.

There's an excellent video by Tom Scott on this subject which explains that the Morgantown PRT actually replaced a bus network, but because of the steep, narrow roads the buses were too unreliable and caused frequent traffic problems. The entire goal of the project was to get it off the roads and onto a dedicated network. (Of course they could have built a dedicated busway instead, not sure why they didn't choose that)

 

[py_megapixel]

Overall, I don't really see what the selling point of demand responsive transport is supposed to be. Honestly, I find a turn-up-and-go bus service (or even a fairly frequent timetabled one) to be more convenient than having to actually go out of my way to request a vehicle, whether it be on the phone, a website, a mobile app etc. If I wanted a private/direct experience I'd just book a taxi.

The case where I can see it being worthwhile - and where it is already used across the UK - is for assistance to elderley people.
But for most of the population, D.R.T seems to fill a gap in the market which is, simply put, nonexistent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is of course a very extensive and longstanding demand responsive system in Britain, and that is taxis. More recently this has become supplemented by Uber etc. In some places this has had a notable negative impact on established public transport, not just recently. Post-deregulation increases in bus fares from traditionally low levels was a notable driver.

As is the convenience. Having the right change is a faff (a lot of taxi drivers always denied having change even if they did have it). Having to phone someone on a bad line who can barely understand where you're asking for a taxi from, only to be told "5 minutes" to describe anything from 30 seconds to half an hour is a faff. Having to argue about the fare because "the meter is broken mate" is a faff. OK, if you live in a big city and on a busy road you might be able to flag one down, but that's not true everywhere.

App based taxi services hugely increase the utility of the service. And it isn't all "Uber pushover" - Uber is not massive in MK, the local firms are much bigger, cheaper and offer a better service.

As for DRT, it only works when more than one person wants to do the same journey at the same time, which they invariably don't exactly (buses are different, because you're told when it is, so you "like it or lump it" and so most people adapt their journey a bit to fit). The "ViaVan" service being trialled around MK invariably seemed to be carrying one passenger. It does have a bit of a purpose in providing socially necessary services in large rural areas, where you can set up something like "on a Thursday market day, we will arrange for a vehicle to pick you up from anywhere in this 10 mile rural radius to get to the market at about 11am, we'll let you know your pickup time the day before but it could be anywhere between 9-10:30am, then we'll run back at about 2pm and drop you all back home" - that does work and is used in a few places - but you really don't get the convenience for people who are time pushed which is why it never goes big.

 

[Taunton]

the Morgantown PRT actually replaced a bus network, but because of the steep, narrow roads the buses were too unreliable and caused frequent traffic problems. The entire goal of the project was to get it off the roads and onto a dedicated network. (Of course they could have built a dedicated busway instead, not sure why they didn't choose that)

The traffic issues seem to have been something of a fiction/self-justification by the project team. We have of course seen this sort of thing elsewhere. It was the pet project of the head of civil engineering at the university there at design time.

Here's the main road that parallels the PRT, so you can see the "steep, narrow, congestion" for yourself ...

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

The Tees Flex service has been running a while now - there seems to be a few who use it, to be fair.

 

[PG]

Any pointers?

Maybe the Article on the A2B Dial-a-bus in Aberdeenshire that I found on the eltis website would be of interest?
https://www.eltis.org/discover/case-studies/a2b-dial-bus-aberdeenshire-scotland
There is a link to a document which was submitted to the Scottish Transport Awards in 2010.
https://www.eltis.org/sites/default/files/case-studies/documents/cat2a2bdial-abusfinal_5.pdf

 

[Snow1964]

TfL have 2 versions : Dial-a-ride (for disabled, need to become a member), last I heard they were buying lots of new euro6 vehicles

There were 2 trials of proper DRT, one in Sutton for a year to June 2020 called GoSutton (which died in March), and a more recent one in Ealing called slide with smaller vehicles (which seems to have been abandoned after few weeks). Both needed an app, had a separate payment system from other TfL services.

 

[65477]

To answer the original question about resources two examples from Essex.

Back in the 1970's there was an experimental DaR service in Harlow and this was undertaken with academic research - I think the final report was by Cranfield University. The Dar service was replaced at the end of the trail with a conventional bus route using the same Find Transit mini buses.

Essex County Council were still replacing conventional rural bus routes with DaR until very recently so the minutes of meetings or a Freedom of Information request to the council might provide results.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the key to them working is one of:

1. A special need that can't economically/practically be provided for on the mainstream service, and where people will put up with a much slower service than otherwise (community transport/paratransit/whatever you call it).

2. A sparsely populated area but one that has a reasonable population that will want to go to one key destination (the rural version) - like the "market day" trip I outlined above.

For larger, denser populations you very quickly reach the point where a timetabled bus route would work better. For random point to point destinations with no single "honeypot" only really cars and taxis seem to work as it's rare that you'll get two people making a similar trip. (The latter is why it's never really worked in MK).

 

[robk23oxf]

.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

There were 2 trials of proper DRT, one in Sutton for a year to June 2020 called GoSutton (which died in March), and a more recent one in Ealing called slide with smaller vehicles (which seems to have been abandoned after few weeks). Both needed an app, had a separate payment system from other TfL services.

The Go Sutton trial was due to end in June 2020. It was suspended shortly after lockdown and has been formally abandoned, the Mercedes Sprinters used on it have now largely left London.

Ealing’s Slide started in November 2019 on a 1 year trial using 10 MAN minibuses operated by RATP’s London Sovereign division, but working out of the London United depot at Fulwell. 5 buses were used on early turns with the other 5 on late turns. This also got suspended at Lockdown and has now been (quietly) abandoned.

Both trials seemed very half hearted on the part of TfL. I live in the Slide area, but there was absolutely no marketing of the service to addresses in the area. The local station had a limited supply of leaflets, complete with a wrongly printed discount code, but these quickly ran out. Most marketing was done by the few passengers who knew about it posting their experiences on Facebook. Generally it was a well liked service, but too few people knew about it to make a success of it. Moreover the zone of operation was somewhat limited and didn’t serve the ‘natural’ town centres at Hounslow and Hayes which are closer to some parts of the zone than Ealing Broadway.

Dial a Ride are taking loads of new Tucana’s, mostly spending their lives running about empty. I never sure why the Dial a Ride couldn’t be opened up to others as a DRT service

 

[GusB]

The only encounter I've really had with Demand Responsive services was with the Nairn Dial-a-Bus. After my father had his stroke it would have been useful for him to get home from GP appointments and the likes of Sainsbury's, but those journeys were exempt from the dial-a-bus service because those places were already covered by the regular town service. Unfortunately due to the dog-bone nature of the town service route, and the fact that it only goes in one direction at each end, it would have meant him having quite a long wait at the supermarket on the return, and then having to go around the whole circuit before getting home.

I tried to make enquiries by email to see if he would be permitted to use the dial-a-bus to make these journeys due to his mobility issues, but I received no response from the council at all.

A few other issues that would perhaps prevent people using it:
- It has to be pre-booked before 6pm the previous day
- The service only operates Mon-Sat 8am-5.30pm
- It wasn't all that well publicised
- The perception that it's only for old people and/or those with disabilities

The vehicle that was used at the time was a high-floor Mercedes Vario (with tail-lift), while the regular town service was using either a Solo or a Streetlite, both of which were more easily accessible. In the end he decided he wouldn't bother with it, and would either wait for me to be there to give him a lift, or go one way on the bus and get a taxi home.

 

[tbtc]

I think I'm s sceptic.

"Demand Responsive" services are like the "last mile"/"feeder" services - both concepts have been tried/ failed/ reinvented/ failed again over and over, and nobody has found a medium term solution (once the initial funding/ enthusiasm runs out).

Back in the 1980s I remember Strathclyde running "Demand responsive" minibuses (something like "Your Wee Happy Bus"?), trying to compete with taxis (so that a family/group of passengers would travel for much less than the equivalent number of single fares).

Stagecoach certainly tried with their "Yellow TaxiBus" (between Fife and Edinburgh) almost twenty years ago.

But like a swanky proposal from FirstGroup, it never seems to work once the adrenaline dissipates and the passenger numbers refuse to grow beyond a certain level.

Nowadays, with smart phones enabling Uber etc, I could see someone trying to solve the problem from the "taxi" side of things but it's too fiddly for bus companies to crack - below a certain number of bums-on-seats it's just not cost effective to pay bus driver wages.

I'm sure there'll be another attempt at finding a crossbreed between "taxi" and "scheduled minibus" every couple of years, someone aspiring Elon Musk and attempt to reinvent the wheel but there's a big gap between "reliable scheduled bus service along the main roads" and "demand responsive transport that can penetrate housing estates and cater to individual needs" - running a minibus is never going to be cost effective compared to running a private hire car (and I don't know that I'd want bus companies to be cutting lots of corners to try to compete in such a bottom-of-the-market operation).

Some nuts can't be cracked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Uber already have - Uberpool - but I have a feeling there are licencing issues with it in the UK.

 

[edwin_m]

The fundamental issue is that if a DRT service became popular enough that the fares started to cover costs, the vehicle would have to carry enough people making diverse journeys that anyone with an alternative would have given up on it because it made their own journey so slow and indirect. So these services are inherently loss-making and therefore an easy target for funding cuts on a country where local authorities are cash-starved, and while they can sometimes find one-off capital they struggle with ongoing revenue support. If funding is allocated on the basis of subsidy per journey, it will tend to go to fixed route bus services that are near but not quite commercial.

This might change if costs were reduced by eliminating the driver. Personal Rapid Transit was an attempt to do this, but needs total segregation from other road users so the promise of "door to door" service also implies mostly elevated infrastructure that is both hugely costly and hugely obtrusive. If it works at all it's in a closed environment such as an airport or university campus, but it's worth noting that this idea has been around and technologically feasible for half a century and we only have a handful of systems worldwide.

Two more recent developments might make some difference: micromobility in the recent past and autonomous driving on normal roads at some indeterminate future time. Micromobility in the form of hire bikes and scooters is here now but only economically viable in dense urban areas, and most people who can't use normal public transport (and are often the reason for providing DRT) probably can't manage a bike or scooter either. Autonomous driving could therefore be a game-changer, but still has issues such as how to keep the vehicle clean and safe when there is no driver supervising passenger behavior.

 

[py_megapixel]

Autonomous driving could therefore be a game-changer, but still has issues such as how to keep the vehicle clean and safe when there is no driver supervising passenger behavior.

That's an interesting question which I hadn't thought about before regarding automated transport. My guess is that in the first instance it will probably involve some form of CCTV system and atwo way intercom in each vehicle, coupled with the vehicles periodically returning to wherever they are based to be checked over and cleaned, but there are still problems with that.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Maybe the Article on the A2B Dial-a-bus in Aberdeenshire that I found on the eltis website would be of interest?
https://www.eltis.org/discover/case-studies/a2b-dial-bus-aberdeenshire-scotland
There is a link to a document which was submitted to the Scottish Transport Awards in 2010.
https://www.eltis.org/sites/default/files/case-studies/documents/cat2a2bdial-abusfinal_5.pdf

Given that the service is still going 16 years later and has been gradually expanded/grown i think it's safe to say A2B has been a success. The key reason undoubtedly though is because of the more rural nature and the lack of other alternatives, these are seen as vital services rather than a commercial venture.

 

[MotCO]

Back in the 1970's there was an experimental DaR service in Harlow and this was undertaken with academic research - I think the final report was by Cranfield University. The Dar service was replaced at the end of the trail with a conventional bus route using the same Find Transit mini buses.

At around the same time, there was a dial-a-ride in Hampstead, again using similar Ford Transits, and this converted to a fixed route service.

 

[MotCO]

The Go Sutton trial was due to end in June 2020. It was suspended shortly after lockdown and has been formally abandoned, the Mercedes Sprinters used on it have now largely left London.

Ealing’s Slide started in November 2019 on a 1 year trial using 10 MAN minibuses operated by RATP’s London Sovereign division, but working out of the London United depot at Fulwell. 5 buses were used on early turns with the other 5 on late turns. This also got suspended at Lockdown and has now been (quietly) abandoned.

I was surprised when these were instigated. It was obvious that these would require a (huge?) subsidy, based on schemes elsewhere. Given the change in fortunes in TfL's finances over the last few years, not helped by reducing numbers of passengers and no fares increase, I'm not surprised that these have been quietly stopped.

 

[cactustwirly]

Arriva also have "Arriva Click" which is an app based DRT in Leicester and Liverpool.

 

[MotCO]

One possible advantage of running DRTs is that it helps to identify passenger needs and flows, so that a fixed stop service at the required times might be more effective. However, any transport manager worth his salt would know this anyway.

I see the main problem of DRT in urban areas is that few people want the same journey at the same time. Even if there was a common transport objective such as a shopping centre or sports centre, passengers will want to board at different, random places, so a round-the-houses trip is inevitable unless there is only one person on the bus (which seems to be the norm!).