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Denied travel at Paddington in the evening peak despite holding a valid ticket

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Flamingo

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Paddington are ****holes as regards tickets.

I was going to Cardiff via Newark a few years ago and holding a ticket that was valid for the complete journey, but technically due to the timing wasn't valid at Paddington. (The ticket wouldn't have been if it was Paddington to Cardiff, but because it was a ticket Newark to Cardiff, it was.)

The amount of books and phone calls they had to go through just to confirm this was unbelievable, they were so looking for an excuse to say that the ticket was invalid.

But they did look it up, and you were allowed to travel? So what's your point?
 

WelshBluebird

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I think the point is validity code information should be easily available.

It should be on the NRE site, So god knows why a member of staff couldn't quickly look it up. Granted it is a little hidden, but its not too difficult to find.
 

bnm

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Problem is though that even after looking it up, the staff, and one Supervisor in particular, will totally ignore the evidence in front of their eyes and state that FGWs evening peak from Paddington is a blanket rule, particularly in regard to Off Peak Day tickets.

That's what happened with me. They had the text there in front of them from 'The Manual' but said that the entry was incorrect, telling me that all Off Peak Day tickets to Thames Valley stations were barred on fast services in the evening peak.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the training of ticket office staff if they are going to ignore the official sources of information and instead make up their own rules. That there is someone in a supervisory position lying to customers over what is a contractual point is even more worrying.

Sending out 'goodwill gestures' following complaints isn't enough. If I ever get denied travel again at Paddington when holding a valid ticket I will be suing for breach of contract.

I'd urge others who have been denied travel to do the same.
 

island

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When you sue someone it is often to represent some loss, or damages, which you have suffered. The question is what are the damages?
 

benk1342

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Beg pardon.

Could you elaborate?

If you sue someone for breach of contract one of the things you have to prove is that you suffered damages, i.e. the sum of money the other party's breach cost you. If you sued a TOC for denying you travel (even indefinitely), the most you would possibly be out (your damages) would be the cost of the ticket. If the TOC gave you a refund (whether called a goodwill gesture or whatever) you would have no damages at all.

You could try to argue that because you were denied travel, you missed a business deal or something and lost out on some sum of money. These are known as consequential damages. However, they are very difficult to recover unless you can show that the other party knew at the time you entered the contract that the business deal hung in the balance. They are also expressly excluded from many contracts, including the NRCoC clause 42(c).
 

bnm

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The damages for loss would be the cost of the additional ticket needed to be purchased to travel in the evening peak. I'm fully aware that other damages for inconvenience, disappointment and stress are rarely awarded.

Of course the loss could be mitigated by waiting until 1915 but would that be seen as reasonable?

I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. However, a money claim for breach of contract is a relatively cheap (free for me as I receive an income related state benefit) process and I'd be prepared as a matter of principle to pursue such a course of action, win, lose or draw.

And yes I'm aware that costs can be awarded against me if I lose.
 

benk1342

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[A] money claim for breach of contract is a relatively cheap (free for me as I receive an income related state benefit) process and I'd be prepared as a matter of principle to pursue such a course of action, win, lose or draw.

And yes I'm aware that costs can be awarded against me if I lose.

If you lost (which you certainly would if you had already been given a refund), then the costs that would be awarded against you if you pursued the matter to a resolution in court would not be cheap. They would far outstrip the value of the ticket.
 

bnm

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I'm not talking about a situation where I've already been given a refund. I've said that if I'm denied travel again when holding a valid ticket I'd be pursuing a claim for breach of contract.

And costs if I lost would be based on my income and ability to pay. Instalments based on disposable income.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Besides which, in a small claim, it is unlikely that a judge would award costs against a claimant who loses, unless he decided that the claim was frivolous or malicious.
 

JamesRowden

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How about sending to the Office of Rail Regulation a video recording of an event (and specific details) of being denied travel on such trains with such tickets at Paddington.
 

bnm

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Would have to be secretly recorded with concealed equipment. Not something I have.

Poking a camera in the face of rail staff you are in dispute with is a quick route to being escorted off the premises or even arrested.
 

JamesRowden

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Would have to be secretly recorded with concealed equipment. Not something I have.

Poking a camera in the face of rail staff you are in dispute with is a quick route to being escorted off the premises or even arrested.

Don't enter a dispute. Just ask them if it is valid. A friend could use their smart phone and because the staff member will be concentrating on the enquiry they might well think that the friend is just looking something up on the internet. The ticket could be shown in the video after asking the staff member and kept in constant view in between so that a viewer can tell that it is the same ticket.

Alternatively you could just go for Top Gear's James May tie camara that they used to do a test drive of the 'City Rover' (making sure that the camara is poining in the correct direction). :lol:
 
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