Denied travel at Paddington in the evening peak despite holding a valid ticket

[benk1342]

You can always ask if you think your ticket is ok.

But the problem is that asking doesn't work because the staff (most staff? many staff? some staff? a few staff?) do not seem to understand/know/believe that restriction codes exist and must be taken seriously.

 

[bnm]

It's disappointing to hear these problems are still occurring, but I don't think FGW will actually address them (despite saying they will), so I predict people will still be told their valid tickets are invalid in future.

Oh, ye of little faith!

I'm led to believe, from a well placed source, that things are being addressed. Messages on the screens have been changed to say that 'Off Peak tickets MAY not be valid on this service' and further information is given regarding journeys that have started outside London. With a request to ask staff if unsure.

Staff have also been briefed as well.

If this is indeed the case then it is good to see swift action taken to address the issue of Off Peak restrictions, or the lack of them, through Paddington in the evening peak.

I'll be looking out for any updated information the next time I travel through Paddington.

 

[Deerfold]

Oh, ye of little faith!

Staff have also been briefed as well.

If this is indeed the case then it is good to see swift action taken to address the issue of Off Peak restrictions, or the lack of them, through Paddington in the evening peak.

If this is the case it's great. I'm not sure I'd describe it as swift though as I've been reading about problems like this at Paddington since I joined this forum.

 

[bnm]

I meant swift only in reference to my written complaints.

I wonder though whether FGW will attempt to have other fare setters change their restrictions to bring them into line with the London<->Thames Valley fares they set.

 

[Rich McLean]

I will have another go with this next time I do a Cambridge run and back on a period Off-Peak Return

 

[bb21]

Messages on the screens have been changed to say that 'Off Peak tickets MAY not be valid on this service' and further information is given regarding journeys that have started outside London.

I really don't see the point of messages like this. May? Might as well not bother.

Would be better to say something along the lines of "Off-Peak tickets between London Terminals and stations listed above up to XXX are not valid on this train."

 

[island]

I am pleased to note that FGW has improved its electronic displays at Paddington station regarding the validity of off-peak tickets.

Formerly, it was common to see displays reading "The following tickets are not valid: Super Off Peak, Off Peak Day, Off Peak (except to Swindon and beyond)". Of course, there are tickets which meet this description that would be valid for various reasons. Common ones include the evening peak when an off peak day ticket from London Terminals is barred but one with a cross-London transfer is not (e.g. London Terminals to Didcot Parkway vs Limehouse LTS to Didcot Parkway).

The message now reads "The following FGW tickets may not be valid: [list as before] See staff for details." A separate notice expands on this, stating that tickets with validity on other TOCs or where there is a change of trains may have different rules, and to speak to a member of staff for information.

We are very quick to criticize the industry for giving misleading information, so credit where it's due to FGW for this.

 

[postye]

Oh, ye of little faith!

I'm led to believe, from a well placed source, that things are being addressed. Messages on the screens have been changed to say that 'Off Peak tickets MAY not be valid on this service' and further information is given regarding journeys that have started outside London. With a request to ask staff if unsure.

Staff have also been briefed as well.

If this is indeed the case then it is good to see swift action taken to address the issue of Off Peak restrictions, or the lack of them, through Paddington in the evening peak.

I'll be looking out for any updated information the next time I travel through Paddington.

Well from my experience today it appears that absolutely nothing has changed at Paddington.
I arrived today armed with a boundary Z4-Reading CDR and was denied boarding onto the 16:30 Taunton Train because "I had an off peak ticket" and all off peak tickets are invalid on all fast trains to reading between 16:00-19:00.
When I mentioned that the ticket concerned had a validity code "W1" and showed him the national rail website restriction code pdf of W1 which stated any train after 09:30 I was told that the website was wrong and the screens said off peak tickets were invalid.
I then spoke to a supervisor who just kept reiterating that all off peak tickets from anywhere within the former NSE area are not valid on peak trains.
I asked for a manager and was told I would need to go to the ticket office, queued up for 15 minutes, and was 'confronted' by a "sales Supervisor" who refused to accept that the code printed on the ticket was a validity code, claimed he was unable to look up validity codes in the ticket office, and that it didn't matter anyway as a peak train is a peak train and no off peak tickets are valid on them.
Finally I went to the station reception and asked to see the duty manager, who was the first person that actually seemed to listen to what I was saying without interrupting and went off to investigate. 10 minutes later he returned to tell me that "surprisingly" my ticket was valid and is an anomaly because most off peak tickets are not valid.

 

[jb]

Well from my experience today it appears that absolutely nothing has changed at Paddington.

Sounds like a recipe for free travel. Turn up an hour before you actually want to leave, argue with the cretins for an hour, hey presto - compo claim.

 

[sheff1]

Well from my experience today it appears that absolutely nothing has changed at Paddington .....

... was 'confronted' by a "sales Supervisor" who refused to accept that the code printed on the ticket was a validity code, claimed he was unable to look up validity codes in the ticket office, and that it didn't matter anyway as a peak train is a peak train and no off peak tickets are valid on them.

Why does that not surprise me.

Finally I went to the station reception and asked to see the duty manager, who was the first person that actually seemed to listen to what I was saying without interrupting and went off to investigate. 10 minutes later he returned to tell me that "surprisingly" my ticket was valid ...

And why on earth is he surprised ? The relevant info has been in the public domain, never mind internal sources, for years.

If supervisiors/managers don't have a clue, no wonder the staff are equally clueless.

 

[Greenback]

And why on earth is he surprised ? The relevant info is in the public domain and has been for many years.

The culture of FGW is that cheap (sic) tickets are not valid on any fast train timed to elave London between 1600 and 1900, and it has been like that for at least fifteen years!

I suspect that even if stenuous efforts wer emade now, it would take some years to get rid of this idea from the minds of all staff!

 

[Flamingo]

When we get a briefing on it, I'll come back here and let you know.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[pinguini]

I avoid FGW if I can for these types of reasons.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Look, you don't need to worry yourself about validity codes and Conditions of Carriage. Its not valid because they sez so. Alright?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Flamingo]

I avoid FGW if I can for these types of reasons.

If you don't stay away, how can we miss you?

 

[bnm]

I've had some correspondence by PM, on this and other forums, with a few people wrongly denied travel through Paddington in the afternoon/evening when holding Off Peak tickets.

I'm preparing a sort of super complaint to be forwarded to Passenger Focus and would like to hear from anyone else who has been denied travel from Paddington despite holding a valid ticket.

I know that Passenger Focus doesn't have much in the way of clout, but it's the nearest we've got to an ombudsman.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To hear, that even after reports of screens being updated and staff being re-briefed, of a passenger again being denied travel means that FGW are still not off the naughty step as far as I'm concerned.

I was mistaken to welcome news of changes at Paddington it seems.

 

[SickyNicky]

We had a problem at Paddington a few months ago. Someone I had bought a ticket for was told it wasn't valid and forced to buy an excess. I subsequently wrote in and got a refund for the excess.

A couple of weeks after this, I went to a "meet the manager" event at Paddington and complained about it. Following this (not necessarily because of it though - I don't know) the departure boards now show Off-Peak and Super-Off Peak tickets as valid to Hereford on peak trains via Oxford.

We have not had any problems since.

Edit: actually this problem works both ways. An Off-Peak Day Return from Hereford to Paddington route Evesham (restriction P7) is NOT valid on trains in the evening peak. However the departure boards say that it is (via Oxford)!

 

[bb21]

Don't forget that you need London Travelwatch to deal with the super complaint, not Passenger Focus.

 

[Deerfold]

Don't forget that you need London Travelwatch to deal with the super complaint, not Passenger Focus.

Even if many of these journeys go far beyond LTW's area?

 

[bb21]

Even if many of these journeys go far beyond LTW's area?

I understand the situation as an issue specifically occurring at Paddington, hence under the jurisdiction of LTW. (Not that I would stake my life on it, but quite confident that it is the case.)

 

[bnm]

Thanks for that bb21. I'll cover all bases and copy in PF to the complaint, addressing it in the first instance to LTW.

 

[thelongestroad]

FYI bnm, there was a section of FGW's internal retail circular reminding staff that certain off-peak tickets are valid in the evening peak this week. I don't remember the exact example they gave but it mentioned connections onto the ECML.

 

[34D]

I seem to recall from posters that "if the problem occurred between x and London" it was an issue for LTW.

This matter doesn't concern PF in my opinion.

 

[postye]

I've had a response back from FGW about being denied travel last week. Unfortunately it appears to be Thier standard letter apologising for inconvenience and confirming ticket was valid, promising an investigation and saying they will re-train and brief staff.

Will have to try another trip to Reading with a valid CDR and see what happens

 

[bnm]

Depends on the ticket. If you get an FGW-priced off-peak ticket, yes.

It's just been brought to my attention that there are many flows priced by FGW where, according to the restriction text, travel is permitted any time after 0930 to destinations in the Thames Valley.

These tend to be Singles or the outward portion of Returns that originate from National Rail stations within Greater London.

If evening peak restrictions are supposed to suppress demand, why are folk in the Thames Valley denied travel on their return journey, but folk in London aren't on their outward journey?

 

[Eagle]

If evening peak restrictions are supposed to suppress demand, why are folk in the Thames Valley denied travel on their return journey, but folk in London aren't on their outward journey?

Probably because they only want to suppress demand in one direction, the peak flow (i.e. out of London in the evening).

 

[yorkie]

If evening peak restrictions are supposed to suppress demand, why are folk in the Thames Valley denied travel on their return journey, but folk in London aren't on their outward journey?

It's a way of managing demand, and people who have done a day return to London may be more willing to return later.

The same technique is used by FCC, so the return portion of a Stevenage to London CDR isn't valid in the evening peak. But the outward portion of a London to Stevenage CDR is valid at any time after 0930.

I'm sure other TOCs use it too.

 

[bnm]

Probably because they only want to suppress demand in one direction, the peak flow (i.e. out of London in the evening).

That doesn't work though. The 'peak flow' is surely the same regardless of whether you are on your return journey or on your outward/single journey.

Passenger A holds the return portion of a Reading to London Terminals Off Peak Day Return. He's not allowed to travel on his return journey on fast services between 1600-1915.

Passenger B holds the outward portion of a Wembley Stadium to Reading Off Peak Day Return. He's allowed* to travel from Paddington at any time and on any train provided he has begun his journey at Wembley Stadium after 0930.

Is it right that folks returning to Reading are regarded as being on the 'peak flow' whereas those originating from stations in Greater London aren't?

Is it right that someone starting a single journey at Paddington and travelling to Bedwyn at 1833 has to pay nearly £5 more than someone starting their single journey at Wembley Stadium and connecting into the 1833 at Paddington? The first passenger has to travel on an Anytime ticket, the second can travel on an Off Peak ticket. Both are on the supposed 'peak flow' out of Paddington.


*I say allowed. Staff at Paddington have said otherwise. I've been made aware of a passenger travelling on the outward portion of a ticket (priced by FGW, but not from Wembley Stadium - that was just illustrative) with restriction code W1, who was denied the right to travel on a fast service at some time between 1600 and 1915.

 

[Deerfold]

Is it right that folks returning to Reading are regarded as being on the 'peak flow' whereas those originating from stations in Greater London aren't?

Is it right that someone starting a single journey at Paddington and travelling to Bedwyn at 1833 has to pay nearly £5 more than someone starting their single journey at Wembley Stadium and connecting into the 1833 at Paddington? The first passenger has to travel on an Anytime ticket, the second can travel on an Off Peak ticket. Both are on the supposed 'peak flow' out of Paddington.


[/SIZE]

Is it right? Perhaps not. But what do you suggest doing about it? The obvious answer seems to be to restrict the passenger from Wembley. That might technially be "farier" but I doubt you'd be thanked by anyone for it. I certainly can't see FGW taking all the restrictions off Paddington tickets becaue there's one somewhere that allows travel at "peak" times.

Restrictions are a balance between managing flow and not putting people off travelling.

Where should a restriction on an Edinburgh to Plymouth ticket be to manage flow? You probably pass through the "peak" travel of lots of different areas at different times. But if you make sure an off-peak traveller avoids all of them you'd probably make ann off-peak ticket useless.

 

[stevefreestone]

Paddington are ****holes as regards tickets.

I was going to Cardiff via Newark a few years ago and holding a ticket that was valid for the complete journey, but technically due to the timing wasn't valid at Paddington. (The ticket wouldn't have been if it was Paddington to Cardiff, but because it was a ticket Newark to Cardiff, it was.)

The amount of books and phone calls they had to go through just to confirm this was unbelievable, they were so looking for an excuse to say that the ticket was invalid.