Derailment at Charlton 3/6/15

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by MikeWh, 3 Jun 2015.

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  1. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Looks like Southeastern are taking another hit today. Nothing running between London Bridge and Slade Green via Woolwich. Anyone know what's happened?
     
  2. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    The title says it. Freight derailment at Angerstein Jn.
     
  3. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Cheers! I just wish the alerts would describe the full scope of the issue. Yes, the Woolwich line is blocked. This also has a major knock on effect on the Sidcup line as the Gravesend trains are formed from Gillingham semi-fasts at Charing Cross and the rounders - are rounders via Woolwich.
     
  4. class 9

    class 9 Member

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    6V43 Angerstein Wharf- Pengam. GBRF.
     
  5. wensley

    wensley Established Member

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    Reports that the points flashed O/O/C with the passage of 6V43 and the image above seems to illustrate the end result! No doubt RAIB will get to the bottom of the cause in due course.

    It would seem passenger services have resumed now but recovering that little lot will take a while. Main thing is nobody was injured.
     
  6. westcoaster

    westcoaster Established Member

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    Is that the same place as the freightliner one last year.
     
  7. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Ok should know this but what is O/O/C?
     
  8. Alistair G.

    Alistair G. Member

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    o/o/c = Out of correspondance
     
  9. fv43576

    fv43576 Member

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    How it can be derailed at low speed? is the bend too much for long wagons?
     
  10. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I read it as open/open/closed - i.e. that's what the switch blades were doing! :)
     
  11. John Webb

    John Webb Established Member

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    Yes - same train and same location I believe - 9th of May 2014.
     
  12. QueensCurve

    QueensCurve Established Member

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    I am a bit confused that nationalrail.co.uk reported that trains could not run via Greenwich. I thought it would have blocked the route via Lewishiam?
     
  13. wensley

    wensley Established Member

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    What I can sumise (someone who knows the area better may well correct me!) the job was totally stopped and then the lines to the right (which I presume are the route via Greenwich?) were re-opened in due course.
     
  14. Temple

    Temple Established Member

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    That's correct. The lines to the right are via Greenwich and they merge behind the camera at Charlton Jn with the lines to the left which come from Blackheath (Can be seen on Google Maps if you search for 'Victoria Way, Charlton'). The loco and first few wagons were across the junction to begin with, preventing trains from Charlton to Greenwich.

    Crude and quick sketch of mine on paint...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 3 Jun 2015
  15. david737

    david737 Member

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    It was 2nd April 2014 it happened, the May date is when it appeared on the RAIB website.

    The Greenwich line was reopened about 1600ish after the loco and first few wagons were removed, its just the Blackheath jn to Charlton jn that remains closed and probably will be for a day or two.
     
  16. Alistair G.

    Alistair G. Member

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    I know this is probably a stupid question but it has always baffled me so I have to ask.

    How as a driver do u know when a truck had derailed?. I can understand it if your loco comes off or maybe even the front wagon or so, but I've seen pictures before where it's a wagon right near the back of a train, how do u know when that's off the track?. No rear view mirror so do u just depend on the air brakes disconnecting and kicking in?, or does the train pull differently???.
     
  17. John Webb

    John Webb Established Member

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    Thanks for the correction. I usually see it at St Albans City station around 3.20pm on Weds, when I'm working at the signal box - wondered why it hadn't come through today!
     
  18. wensley

    wensley Established Member

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    Could be either or, in most (freight) derailments the RAIB reports indicate the Driver being made aware the issue having lost air and the brakes having come on.
     
  19. GB

    GB Established Member

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    As said, it can be both depending on the nature of the derailment. Driver maybe able to hear it if circumstances are right or see it if he happens to be *looking back down the train...

    *Periodic looking back at the train is a requirement on freight trains to make sure everything is ok.

    Its also possible that a train can derail without the driver realising and also derail and rerail without the driver or anyone else noticing.

    The freight that derailed at Marks Tey a few years ago managed to travel for about a mile before getting the word to stop as the wagons remained up right and connected.
     
  20. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    The Marks Tey one was stopping distance for that train.

    Drivers have a good sense of train movement for a given location/speed/power controller setting. You will know if it is not accelerating /coasting/braking as it should, in much the same way that you will know if your car is suddenly short of power (eg if the turbo goes). So they will usually know that something is wrong even if the brakes don't come on or there is no noise.
     
  21. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Out of interest do modern freight locos have any rear facing cameras to monitor the train?
     
  22. kentman

    kentman Member

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    How's this for a VSTP - 370F 2200 Hither Green to Lewisham, Test, Diesel

    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U03850/2015/06/04/advanced

    Hither Green [HGR]
    New Cross [NWX]
    Angerstein Jn
    Plumstead C.H.S. [XPS]
    Angerstein Wharf
    Plumstead C.H.S. [XPS]
    Lewisham [LEW]
    London Charing Cross [CHX]
    London Bridge [LBG]
    Lewisham [LEW]
     
  23. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    Despite the derailment - Southeastern managed a respectable 94% PPM this afternoon. Good work all round.
     
  24. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    Points have to be 'in correspondence' before any signals routing over them can show a proceed aspect. The detected positions of the switch blades have to 'correspond' with their desired controlled position in the interlocking. On panels and control screens there is a flashing white indication when out of correspondence to draw the signallers attention. This also flashes when points are commanded to move legitimately from one position to the other.

    So if the points were in the correct position initially, perhaps something dragging under a wagon caught on a switch blade and moved it out of true causing the following wagons to derail.
     
  25. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Yet the southeastern trains twitter feed for yesterday is full of complaints about late and cancelled trains although a trespass incident in the Dover area and a passenger taken ill at Etchingham obviously didn't help.

    The line has now reopened between Charlton and Blackheath.
     
    Last edited: 5 Jun 2015
  26. class 9

    class 9 Member

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    Don't be daft, that would cost money!
     
  27. oldsiggie

    oldsiggie Member

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    Pretty sure he was unaware to start with, think it was someone trackside calling in an Emergency.
     
  28. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    To be fair I can't remember, I have tried to erase that 'week from hell' from my memory. It was the same week as the Liverppol St East London Line bridge issue.
     
  29. Chris M

    Chris M Member

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    There was a passenger EMU (last year?) where one of the later cars derailed and rerailed on points leaving Liverpool Street. The driver was unaware until the guard informed them of some rough riding but didn't spot anything amiss when they eximined the train from a platform.
    IIRC it was only when the people responsible for maintaining points took a second look (after their first failed to fix the signalling indication?) that it was realised what had happened.
     
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