Derailment at Kirkby (Merseyside) - 13/03/2021

[Ianno87]

It doesn't say where it was doing 42mph, RAIB's summary is ambiguous and could be construed as rather misleading. The question I'd want to know is what speed was it doing when the front rolled into the station, and was it under the TPWS trip-speed. They may as well write OMGZ! the train was doing 70mph at some point.. (three days earlier probably near Ainsdale).

I'm getting the impression that it was doing 42 mph at a point where the speed should have been much lower.

My interpretation of the wording is that the 42mph is relevant because that is the point at which the emergency brake application was made.

 

[Llama]

There is no TPWS equipment at the start of the station. There is a 15mph PSR at the start of the station.

There are TPWS OSS loops at a distance of 295m on approach to this 15mph PSR (set speed TBC) and also a set of TPWS OSS loops 55m on approach to the buffer stop, set speed either 10 or 12mph as per previous posts.

 

[43096]

Speculatively, it probably was, but there should be no room for ambiguity in anything put out by RAIB, including these summarisations - despite this 'not being the full report'
this ambiguity could directly affect subsequent prosecutions.

How does it affect any prosecution? Investigators would have access to far more data (OTMR download for a start) than a brief RAIB press summary.

Think you are making some rather big assumptions.

 

[Highlandspring]

Speculatively, it probably was, but there should be no room for ambiguity in anything put out by RAIB, including these summarisations - despite this 'not being the full report'
this ambiguity could directly affect subsequent prosecutions.

Calm down. RAIB investigations are independent of any investigation carried out by enforcing authorities (ORR, HSE, CPS, COPFS etc..) and their findings are specifically by law not allowed to be used as evidence for prosecution.

 

[Ianno87]

Think you are making some rather big assumptions.

Including jumping to mentioning prosecutions when at this stage we have no idea what actually went wrong, nor will we until the full report is published.

 

[mr_moo]

Calm down. RAIB investigations are independent of any investigation carried out by enforcing authorities (ORR, HSE, CPS, COPFS etc..) and their findings are specifically by law not allowed to be used as evidence for prosecution.

Not quite. Their findings can be used in a court of law as evidence, but that's not what they are looking for.

Their job is to establish the facts of the incident with a view to learning whatever can be learned to improve safety in future. They specifically exclude any establishment of blame.

If the police wishes to do a separate investigation, they can use the data from an RAIB investigation as evidence - it's just that, the facts. Establishing blame or wrong-doing comes an an additional set of info that the RAIB will not get involved with - that's entirely up to the police. This is why the reports will contain statements like "the driver did", but never the driver's name.

 

[HSP 2]

It does say that the train was approaching the station at 42mph before a emergency brake application was made.
Looking at in cold light it could have been the TPWS at the start of the station. But that is just second guessing.

It could have been the TPWS at the start to the approach to the station. Not inferring at the start of the platform.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Have to say I have never used "ambiguity" and "RAIB" in the same sentence, and will continue to wait until they publish the full report.

 

[158747]

From the video footage the train was travelling at approximately 28mph when it hit the buffers.

 

[Llama]

It could have been the TPWS at the start to the approach to the station. Not inferring at the start of the platform.

Unlikely, unless a serious brake failure or low adhesion situation happened, lasted for about 300yds and then rectified itself by around the start of the platform.

If either of those two were likely factors then we would know about it. Reading between the lines in the RAIB's statement their suspicions at this stage are pretty obvious.

 

[notlob.divad]

There is an awful lot of speculation on this thread. The kind that we are usually dissuaded from making until the full RAIB report is out.

 

[Vespa]

Saw the train at Kirkdale today on the siding next to the platform, the bogies looks knackered and the body has a gouge along the sude, later looked at Kirkby they've fixed everything up in double quick time, you wouldn't have known there was a derailment there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Saw the train at Kirkdale today on the siding next to the platform, the bogies looks knackered and the body has a gouge along the sude, later looked at Kirkby they've fixed everything up in double quick time, you wouldn't have known there was a derailment there.

It looked to me like a slightly messy job, but it won't be long before it's all being rebuilt for Headbolt Lane anyway, so more than adequate and VERY quick.

 

[Mike395]

Now the RAIB have confirmed they're investigating, we're going to lock this thread for now until the report is published to avoid further speculation.

 

[ainsworth74]

It has been reported in the Liverpool Echo that the train driver involved was arrested last week on suspicion of endangering the railway before being released under investigation:

The driver of the Merseyrail train which derailed at Kirkby station causing massive damage has been arrested, the ECHO can reveal.

Police and a number of government agencies are investigating the March 13 incident, which saw a Saturday evening service leave the tracks.

The impact, which happened when the train collided with a buffer stop, caused a significant amount of damage with smashed up concrete and other debris. Part of the platform in Kirkby collapsed.

Now, the ECHO has learnt that a 58-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of endangering the safety of the railway.

He was the driver of the 6.35pm Merseyrail service, who was left "shaken up" after the crash and was taken to hospital as a precaution.

The driver, from Liverpool, was detained by British Transport Police officers last week before being questioned by detectives and the released under investigation.

Investigators remain tight-lipped over any potential cause for the crash, which happened on March 13.

The train, which was carrying 12 passengers and two crew members, was seen to enter the station before it derailed and smashed into the platform, and surrounding walls.

Sparks flew and flashes of orange briefly were seen.

A series of investigations are underway involving the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) and the Office for Rail and Road.

Train driver arrested over crash that left trail of destruction

The 58-year-old was 'left shaken' by the incident and taken to hospital as a precaution

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

The thread will remain locked for now as the RAIB investigation is still ongoing and there now appears to be a criminal investigation underway alongside it. If anyone has any further updates please do feel free to report this post and we can look at adding updates or unlocking the thread as appropriate.

 

[ainsworth74]

Thread will remain locked for now however by way of an update it appears that the driver has been charged in connection with this incident:

Man, 59, charged over Kirkby train derailment​

Passengers and crew were on board when the train left the tracks and smashed into a platform

A man was charged over the derailment of a train that smashed into a platform at Kirkby station.

Passengers and crew were on board the Merseyrail service which was traveling along the Kirkby line when it derailed on March 13, 2021.

As the train approached the station it crashed into a buffer stop and left the tracks.

Dramatic pictures showed a significant amount of damage, with piles of debris, rubble and smashed up concrete.

Part of the platform had also caved in.

It took days for the train to be removed and the station was closed for around two weeks.

Now, police have confirmed a 59-year-old man has been charged in connection with the incident and will appear in court next month.

In a statement, a spokesperson for British Transport Police said: "A 59-year-old man has been charged in connection to a train derailment at Kirkby station on 13 March 2021.

"Phillip Hollis, of Spellow Lane, Liverpool, was charged with endangering safety of people on the railway and will appear at Liverpool Magistrates’ Court on February 8.

"The charge was issued by postal requisition."

Man, 59, charged over Kirkby train derailment

Passengers and crew were on board when the train left the tracks and smashed into a platform

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Thanks to those that reported this so the update could be posted and please do feel free to report any further updates.

 

[ainsworth74]

A further update today is that the driver has pled guilty at Magistrates and the matter is being sent to the Crown Court for sentencing next month:

Merseyrail train derailed after entering station at 40mph​

Driver admits endangering passengers after travelling at close to three times speed limit

A train driver was going at close to three times the speed limit when he crashed a Merseyrail service at Kirkby station.

Phillip Hollis admitted endangering the safety of passengers at Liverpool Magistrates’ Court this morning following an accident last year.


Michael Page, prosecuting, told the court the train was travelling at around 40 miles per hour when it entered the station at 6.52pm on March 13, 2021.

This was well above both the legal speed limit of 15 miles per hour and a Merseyrail policy of 10 miles per hour.

Magistrates were told Hollis then applied the emergency brake 18 metres into the platform but the train crashed through barriers at the end of the station.


There were 12 passengers and a guard also on the train at the time of the accident but none were injured.

Pictures of the aftermath showed a significant amount of damage , with piles of debris, rubble and smashed up concrete.

Part of the platform had also caved in.

It took days for the train to be removed and the station was closed for around two weeks.

Hollis, of Spellow Lane, Walton, was supported by family and friends and spoke only to confirm his personal details and indicate that he would plead guilty to endangering the safety of passengers travelling on a railway through wilful omission or neglect.

He was formally convicted shortly afterwards.

Victor Wozny, defending, told the court the 59-year-old had had four decades of unblemished service as a train driver before the accident.

He has no previous convictions and was granted unconditional bail.

The case was sent to Liverpool Crown Court, where Hollis will be sentenced next month.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyrail-train-derailed-after-entering-23023407

 

[ainsworth74]

The BTP have released more information today on this case. Their investigation showed that the driver was using their mobile phone whilst in the cab:

Train driver convicted after crashing train at nearly three times speed limit - Merseyside​

16:09 09/02/2022

A train driver who was using WhatsApp less than thirty seconds before he crashed his train at nearly three times the speed limit has been convicted, following a British Transport Police investigation.

Phillip Hollis, 56, and of Spellow Lane, Liverpool, pleaded guilty to endangering the safety of passengers at Liverpool Magistrates’ Court on 8 February. He will be sentenced at a later date.

On Saturday 13 March 2021, Hollis was driving a Merseyrail Service from Liverpool Central to Kirkby, which was due to arrive at 6.52pm.

The Network Rail speed limit for the approach to Kirkby station is 15mph, but the train travelled in at 40mph. Hollis applied the emergency brakes but the train has collided with the buffer stop at the end of the platform. This caused the train to derail, and an estimated £450,000 in damage to the station.

There were twelve passengers and a guard on board the service at the time. Thankfully they only sustained minor injuries.

Hollis told police that his bag had fallen off a cupboard in the cab and he’d stood up to retrieve it along with a bottle of Lucozade, before sitting back down and seeing the buffers approaching.

However, when Hollis’s phone was seized and analysed, detectives found he’d sent a WhatsApp message at 6.51.34pm, 26 seconds before the crash. He was interviewed again by detectives and admitted his phone should have been turned off in the cab.

Hollis was dismissed by Merseyrail in September 2021.

Detective Chief Inspector Steve May said: “This was a complex investigation but we could be confident from our analysis that Hollis was using his phone in the seconds before crashing the train into Kirby station at high speed.

“I have no doubt this will have caused him to become distracted while driving, endangering the safety of the passengers and staff on board. It was only through sheer luck that they weren’t seriously injured or worse, killed, as a result of this incredibly dangerous incident.”

https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/in-the-courts/train-driver-convicted-after-crashing-train-at-nearly-three-times-speed-limit---merseyside/

Thanks to those that are notifying us when there are updates. Please do feel free to report any further updates.

 

[Cowley]

The driver has now been sentenced:

Driver who used Whatsapp before Kirkby train crash sentenced

A Merseyrail train driver who was found to be using WhatsApp before a the Kirkby train crash has been sentenced.

www.railadvent.co.uk

A Merseyrail train driver who was found to be using WhatsApp before the Kirkby train crash has been sentenced.

Phillip Holis from Liverpool pleaded guilty to endangering the safety of passengers last month and today, 8th March, was sentenced to 12 months in prison, suspended for 2 years.

Phillip Hollis, 56, was found to be sending the WhatsApp message 26 seconds before the crash, with his train approaching the buffer stops at 40mph.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Very lucky all things considered. If people had been hurt I feel the sentence would have been quite different.

 

[nedchester]

Very lucky all things considered. If people had been hurt I feel the sentence would have been quite different.

Should have been a custodial as a deterrent to others.

 

[sjm77]

Should have been a custodial as a deterrent to others.

I am surprised it wasn't. We seem to be soft on this kind of thing whether you are driving a car or a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very lucky all things considered. If people had been hurt I feel the sentence would have been quite different.

A very interesting moral issue is whether sentences should be based on outcome or on intent/the level of the negligence. There is a pretty good argument that the sentence should be the same either way, because it could have resulted in deaths and was only blind luck that it didn't.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Should have been a custodial as a deterrent to others.

It was custodial, but suspended.

 

[Ianigsy]

The Liverpool Echo article mentions him being a career for his partner, in which case there’s probably an argument that the partner shouldn’t be caused additional distress or suffering because of his actions. But yes, very fortunate not to have killed or injured somebody or indeed himself. Under normal circumstances a Saturday evening train from Liverpool to Kirkby would have been well loaded with shoppers and probably also football supporters, and there would have been a fair few people waiting on the platform as well.

 

[nedchester]

It was custodial, but suspended.

Hair splitting

It was a deliberate act which should have meant a proper custodial not suspended.

 

[ComUtoR]

as a deterrent to others.

The 'Deterrent to others' really is aimed at other Drivers. Drivers are regularly briefed and monitored within an inch of their lives. There have been various campaigns regarding mobile phone use in cabs, there are specific mobile phone policies at each TOC and this is not the first time someone has been involved in an incident caused by mobile phone use. Personally I know of 3 Drivers at my TOC who have lost their jobs due to mobile phone use.

I have no doubt that this incident will be used on further training and development days. But as a deterrent. The threat of jail time isn't really that effective.

Hair splitting

It was a deliberate act which should have meant a proper custodial not suspended.

What do the sentencing guidelines show ?

 

[ainsworth74]

What do the sentencing guidelines show ?

And even more to the point what were the judges sentencing remarks? They'll explain why the sentence was what it was.

 

[43066]

Should have been a custodial as a deterrent to others.

It was a custodial sentence.

The American justice system is an excellent demonstration of how “lock them up and throw away the key” sentencing has very little deterrent value.

Hair splitting

Nope. A suspended sentence is only handed down where the custody threshold has been reached and a custodial sentence imposed. The decision to suspend is separate, based on other factors.

Are you saying that the sentencing judge was wrong to suspend the sentence? Why do you think you know better than them?

It was a deliberate act which should have meant a proper custodial not suspended.

No again. There was no suggestion the driver crashed the train into the buffers deliberately. Allowing himself to become distracted by his phone was certainly an act of negligence, in fact a very serious one, as reflected by the fact it has resulted in a criminal conviction and immediate (suspended) custodial sentence for someone with no prior record. That’s in addition to job loss and the fact he’ll almost certainly never work in the industry again.

The 'Deterrent to others' really is aimed at other Drivers. Drivers are regularly briefed and monitored within an inch of their lives. There have been various campaigns regarding mobile phone use in cabs, there are specific mobile phone policies at each TOC and this is not the first time someone has been involved in an incident caused by mobile phone use. Personally I know of 3 Drivers at my TOC who have lost their jobs due to mobile phone use.

Indeed.

A sage reminder to keep phones off, and if there’s something in your personal life distracting you at work, tell someone. Also a reminder of how one slip can be enough to see you down the road in this job.

 

[Vespa]

Is the driver still able to claim on his pension considering he will be 60 by now even when you're sacked for such a serious incident ?