Derailment on the Great Central Railway

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MattRobinson

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However, it should be noted that those rulebooks have many of the same rules as the mainline- add they've changed their operating practices over the years, so have heritage lines, to keep up with best practice.

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broadgage

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DO you know what these pipes contain?

Commonly refered to as a vacuum, though a pedant might refer to a PARTIAL vacuum, or to air at a pressure below that of the atmosphere.
Under other conditions the pipes are open to the air.

Low tech repairs to vacuum pipes tend to work well since the partial vacuum within tends to make any sealing or patching material adhere more tightly, rather than being blown of as would happen with compressed air.
 

AlexS

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The GCR works to a 2003 (or 2004, one or the other, can't remember off the top of my head) version of the RSSB Modular Rulebook, until 1st July, when it's own best practice rulebook comes into operation (which I understand has taken several years, and lots of blood, sweat and tears to get into place, and it's quite impressive too!) and the RSSB one will be binned.
 

Tomnick

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Just to be clear, I'm referring to the RSSB book generally here, and not specifically to the GCR :) .
If you can't clear the signal then one of the requirements of S5 is that you have to have detection before authorising the train to pass the signal, if you can't get detection you refer back to T1b.

For mechanically operated points if you can't get required indications then you should arrange for the points to be checked and that they are in the required position and secured if facing.

Having never worked with mechanical points I had to look that last bit up :)
I'll agree with all that. It's less clear when you've got mechanical detection on a set of points though - which isn't indicated in the box, it's proved only when the signal is cleared (if you've not got detection, the slides on the signal wire will be held by the mechanical detectors - so you might get the lever fully reverse, but only by stretching the wire between the box and the detector!). As I say, I fully agree with the principle of what you're saying (especially as the most common reason for the signal being unable to clear is that the points aren't fitting up - you can feel it through the lever too), but I still don't think the RSSB book makes it a requirement to clip facing points in that case.
 

bunnahabhain

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the TPO's the loco was attempting to pull out have had their emergency brakes applied.

Lastly, the TPO set was juddered so badly that it's emergency brakes applied, and until these are taken off, they cannot be moved.

Are you able to explain to me the significance of these "emergency brakes"? They would certainly seem to be a new development to me, to have brakes that are not part of the normal braking system, particularly on a train that only has a single set of brake rigging for both air and vacuum. Is it worked by magic perchance?
 

MattRobinson

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Commonly refered to as a vacuum, though a pedant might refer to a PARTIAL vacuum, or to air at a pressure below that of the atmosphere.
Under other conditions the pipes are open to the air.

Low tech repairs to vacuum pipes tend to work well since the partial vacuum within tends to make any sealing or patching material adhere more tightly, rather than being blown of as would happen with compressed air.

It should also be pointed out, foot the avoidance of doubt, that it is worked by the automatic vacuum brake, where a leak in the pipe would cause the brakes to leak on rather than off.

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edwin_m

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Are they trying to say that the derailment damaged the vacuum pipe, causing an emergency brake application on the train, and that the pipe now needs to be repaired?

(I don't know if this is the case but it is a possible interpretation of the journalese!)
 

Tomnick

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If I had to guess, I'd say that the unreliable mole has seen the strings (necessarily) being pulled to allow the set to be moved, and concluded that something must therefore be broken.
 

MattRobinson

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Were they moved by an air braked loco then or taken without a brake? Or something else entirely?

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455driver

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There is no reason a vac braked loco couldnt move them once the strings had been pulled.

Look on the strings as a vac brake reset valve in this case.
 

MattRobinson

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My understanding was that it could be moved as a vacuum braked train without pulling the strings assuming that the vacuum was the same amount? No need to pull the strings unless something that couldn't create as much vacuum was to move the stock (eg, a br standard at 21" taking stock previously hauled by a gw loco at 25")

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Tomnick

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Perhaps the potential difficulties with getting a loco - of any sort - attached to the set where it came to a stand are best left as an exercise for the reader.
 

E&W Lucas

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It's the damage that you can't see that may be significant. Frames knocked out of alignment. Can't tell that until they get it into the shops. Fingers crossed that nothing significant has happened.
 

MattRobinson

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I heard that a loco was attached at the back in some way? Is that incorrect? A lot of rumours were flying around in the days afterwards.

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ilkestonian

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I heard that a loco was attached at the back in some way? Is that incorrect? A lot of rumours were flying around in the days afterwards.

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My understanding is that the line in question is a siding rather than a loop, so the only access would be via the points adjacent to the trap.
 

Tomnick

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A picture is forming in my mind.... one that would require the pulling of strings... ;);):D
I shall make no further comment ;) :)

In all seriousness, the crane lads went about it, in my humble Signalman's opinion, in the most sensible and practical way.
 

ainsworth74

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Out of curiosity have the RAIB taken an interest in this accident?
 

Tomnick

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It's not reportable, according to the RAIB's own guidelines (on their website).
 

455driver

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I reckon the Butler did it in the drawing room with a knife! ;)


Yes I have been drinking acloho alchil alcohlo um beer! :lol:
 
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