Derby Resignalling - 22 July - 7 October 2018

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by LTJ87, 22 Jan 2018.

  1. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Many Crewe passengers change to or from Nottingham, so if it uses 3B or 4B they have a short walk either along the same platform or between two sets of stairs on the footbridge. In recent years before the remodelling the Crewe train tended to use one of the B platforms rather than 5.
     
  2. martinsh

    martinsh Established Member

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    I notice there are no yellow lines on the platforms !
     
  3. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    They aren’t required if the speeds are as recently mentioned in this thread.
     
  4. The_Engineer

    The_Engineer Member

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    Being house-bound, I have taken the opportunity to watch train movements on Real Time Train's Derby area map over the new track layout in and around Derby station since the full reopening. There is no doubt, to me, that it has achieved a much better flow of trains, and amongst the operational benefits I have observed (over and above the objective of eliminating the former
    restricted two-
    track southern exit from all Derby platforms) is now:

    1. terminating trains from both Peartree and Spondon directions on platforms 3 to 6 making more use of Chaddesden curve tracks as turn-back sidings between turns, if it's required to have the full platform length for other passenger trains.
    2. the use of the four-track sections on the Peartree and Duffield directions to allow trains to clear the platforms promptly, and be held for conflicting moves outside the station rather than blocking the platform. The same applies to approaching trains from those directions to platforms 3 to 6 waiting for a clear platform, so avoiding unnecessary delays to trains routed through platforms 1 and 2.
    3. the flexibility of the bi-direction lines. I saw the simultaneous release of three trains towards Peartree on one occasion from platforms 2 to 4, clearing all three platforms promptly, and then flighted onto the down Tamworth at Peartree in the correct order!
    4. the easing of empty stock movements between Etches Park and platforms 3 to 6 by more use of the direct Derby Pilot Line between Etches Park and Chaddesden curve. In the morning, a lot of trains leave the depot as soon as they are ready and are held on the curve before proceeding to their platform at the right time. The reverse happens in the evening, and allows empty stock to clear the platforms promptly and be held on Chaddesden curve or on the pilot line to wait their turn to access the depot. This route is also used occasionally throughout the day if required but more often they are able to go directly to and from depot.

    All the above must be having a good effect in reducing unnecessary delays to trains at the station, which under the old layout would have been ready for departure but delayed by conflicting movements. In turn this reduces delays to arriving trains that formerly were held outside the station waiting for their platform to be cleared.
     
  5. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    My not entirely serious suggestion for a platform 0 was not to free up a platform. Having the Crewe service use the B end of platforms 3 or 4 works fine when everything is running to time, but my experience is that it leads to serious delays when things are running out of schedule, or a set swap is needed.
    The new layout is undoubtedly a major improvement, for the through services. Unfortunately the Nottingham-Cardiff reversers have drawn the short straw, in that they are now restricted to using just two of the platforms, that they also have to share with the Crewe terminators, and services into and out of the carriage works and research yard. Every time that I have travelled when services have been disrupted, this has caused these reversing services to be further delayed, held outside the station waiting for a platform. As others have pointed out, it is now possible for the through services to get past them, but I doubt those sitting on the train held outside the station are too happy to see the through service overtake them!
     
  6. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    Had a good look yesterday. The line of what you thought might be bases on platform 3 are I think the ducts for the new lighting columns. Platform 2/3 now has new lighting columns beyond the limit of the canopy. The end of the platform 4/5 canopy still looks pretty much as your photo, and beyond there is currently temporary lighting fed from a generator, with the new lighting columns starting parallel with those on platform 6/7. So it looks like the canopy on platforms 4/5 is going to be extended out to match platform 6/7, but the platform 2/3 canopy is not. As the trains that use platform 6 are the same trains that use platform 5 on the way back, it makes sense for the canopies to be the same length.
    Obviously the canopy extension works weren't included in the October works that DDB mentioned, but there is still a lot of work going on in the area. Mostly recoveries, I noticed lots of bags of cut cables on the trackside. However, I also spotted what looked like shuttering for some new concrete bases being erected north of the station.
    While I was waiting, I spotted near-enough simultaneous arrivals into platforms 3A and 4A. The train from Nottingham left platform 4A for Birmingham slightly late at 38, as the platform staff were occupied dealing with a departure from platform 5 (much to the annoyance of the guard on platform 4!). This was closely followed by the conflicting move leaving platform 3A for Nottingham at 40, then the Crewe train behind it in 3B leaving at 42. All very slick, but not much margin in case of late running.
     
  7. DDB

    DDB Member

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    To partially answer my own question. The line next to the former siding is now proper plain line I assume done during the closure on the Sunday before last. However the remains of the siding are still there along with rail plant and today a small detachment of the orange army. IMG_20181107_085634.jpg
     
  8. Foggycorner

    Foggycorner Member

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    The small detachment of the orange army that you saw is a light company of the 173rd corps of ballast under foot ha ha
     
  9. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    The TSR and the joined (clamped?) track suggests there is more work to be done here.
     
  10. Skymonster

    Skymonster Member

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    Indeed, and as I've seen a few times now a down St.Pancras-Derby into P5 sometimes has to cross a Derby-Nottingham leaving P3/4, leading inevitably to one of the two being signal checked. I've no doubt arrangements for the long distance services have improved but the loss of flexibility for platforming the regional services seems to be something of a retrograde step.
     
  11. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Regarding the remodelling of Derby station, has it been future proofed for overhead line electrification should it ever happens?
     
  12. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    At present the new layout is running a timetable that was put together to suit the old one. It's possible that the next timetable change will make some adjustments to reduce conflicts on the track layout now in place. For example, before 2008ish Derby-Nottingham trains had a single lead at Trent so couldn't be timetabled to pass in that area. Now it's a double lead they frequently pass on or close to the junction and this maximises junction capacity.
    Certainly the gantries are of the type that provides clearances. I would expect that the design work was substantially complete before the electrification was cancelled, too late to de-scope those parts needed for compatibility with electrification.
     
  13. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Pretty much all standards for new infrastructure in a major project such as this allow for OLE. Particularly so here, where it was designed before the electrification was ‘paused’.
     
  14. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

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    That's until they change the standard for electrification again.
     
  15. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    The Nottingham-Birmingham and Birmingham-Nottingham services are timetabled to arrive at about the same time, and depart within a couple of minutes of one another. Fairly obviously, these services conflict, and there is nothing that any layout can do about that without providing a flyover. What I hadn't realised until I looked at the new track plan, is that with the new layout, they now often conflict both when they arrive AND when they depart! Even if you put the arrival from Nottingham into platform 4, and that from Birmingham into platform 3, the Nottingham has to pass in front of the Birmingham and then over the scissors to get to platform 4. It is possible to get simultaneous arrivals, such as I witnessed awhile back, if the train from Nottingham is routed over onto the up and then "wrong-road" into platform 4. Unfortunately there is a London train due out of platform 6 at about the same time as these trains are arriving, which will usually block this.
     
  16. chorx18

    chorx18 New Member

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    Does anyone know what is going to happen to Derby PSB? Trent PSB seems (from the outside at least) to have been abandoned...
     
  17. DanDaDriver

    DanDaDriver Member

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    Talking to one of the signallers and apparently there’s quite a bit of Asbestos in it so it’s unlikely to be demolished any time soon. I’m sure NR can use the space for something.
     
  18. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    Is it my imagination, or have the "Welcome to Derby (Midland)" signs on the platforms had the 'Midland' reference removed? That didn't last long.
     
  19. civ-eng-jim

    civ-eng-jim Member

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    Yep - Long gone. Not sure why they were put up in the first place.
     
  20. 43055

    43055 Member

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    It Has been removed.

    In other news some work has been done to the canopy on Platform 6/7 (fences on the edge I think) so maybe the canopy on 4/5 will be sorted out soon.
     
  21. grumpyoldman01

    grumpyoldman01 Member

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    According to the March 2019 issue of 'Modern Railways', outstanding work such as on the canopies will be completed "over the course of the year" (page 53)
     
  22. nottinghamcity

    nottinghamcity Member

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    I vaguely remember reading somewhere (sorry no refs)that sunnyhill to Burton was recontrolled from EMCC but the relays are still in the PSB relay room because that part wasn't time expired. I will revisit my paper copies of Rail Engineer to confirm!
     
  23. Jozhua

    Jozhua Member

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    Hi everyone,
    I've recently found out about the Ambergate Junction upgrade and am unable to find a dedicated thread, however I feel it is related to the Derby re-signalling project and upgrades in the Derby area in general. I was interested to know if anyone knows what the increase in line speeds will be and what other benefits the project will bring.
    Thanks!
     
  24. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Branch junction speed goes from 20mph to 50mph.
     
  25. Jozhua

    Jozhua Member

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    Thanks for the information! From someone who used to use the Matlock line heavily, that will make the journey certainly feel a lot faster. Obviously it's near Ambergate station and the train often has to wait for clearance onto the mainline but for the times it can sail straight through, should make a decent difference. Has the speed of the mainline increased? I'm guessing it might not have as the corner is still rather tight.
     
  26. civ-eng-jim

    civ-eng-jim Member

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    The through alignment is now good for 100mph but I don't believe trains will run at that speed for the time being. The Ambegate scheme was part of an S&C renewals (with some significant remodeling) but the linespeed improvement is a separate project.
     
  27. rower40

    rower40 Member

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    This could be corrected with improved recognition by the timetable planners of how to do it.
    The Birmingham to Nottingham service should always use platform 4, and the Nottingham to Birmingham should use platform 3. Both services should run 'bang road' (Up the down slow, and down the Up slow) between Derby and Peartree. Then there would be no trains using the scissors between platforms 3 and 4, and there can be parallel departures. The only conflict is on a fixed diamond on arrival - and that can be first-come-first-served. The signallers seem to be doing this for those pairs of trains where the services are timed into those platforms. I commute in on 1D53 each morning (0825 from Willington into platform 4), and when I alight, the platform starting signals of both platform 3 and 4 are sometimes green - with 1D53 routed to Nottingham, and 1V05 routed to Birmingham from platform 3 on the Up Tamworth Slow line.
     
  28. Jozhua

    Jozhua Member

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    Thanks for the information, I believe the speed was increased to 80mph a few years ago, still a pretty good speed, however you definitely notice the slowdown leading to the junction from either direction. I'm guessing 100mph is the speed for the majority of the section between Belper and Chesterfield? All of these time savings should be adding up now, especially with the considerably faster approach from Nottingham direction into Derby!
     
  29. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    Wasn't there some talk of opening up Toadmoor Tunnel a few years ago? I understand it's barrel shape restricts the amount by which the track through it can be canted. Could the curve be eased if the tunnel was opened?
     
  30. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    I've used it a couple of times recently and they also followed this practice.

    The timetable hasn't changed significantly since the re-modelling so trains will still be timed for the old layout. I'm hoping there are a few tweaks at some point to optimise it for the new layout, rather as they did when Trent became a double lead junction and the Birmingham trains now pass each other on or near it.
     

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