Derby to Crewe EMT services

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by NorthWestRover, 23 Oct 2018.

  1. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Member

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    Alas I’ve been a passenger for longer than that! When I said “recently” that is over six years in my book :lol:
     
  2. ChrisC

    ChrisC Member

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    There have been quite a number of 158’s on the Robin Hood Line too during the last few months. On a number of days there have been more than one 158 on Mansfield/Worksop trains. I was sat on a 158 in Nottingham station only a couple of weeks ago which was going to Worksop and at the same time a train from Liverpool arrived with a 156 at the back.
     
  3. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    What’s the plan for post 2020??
     
  4. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    1 extra evening train Mon - Sat.
    Sunday morning trains.

    Don't get too excited now.

    Rolling stock for the whole franchise (non midland mainline) - whatever leftovers are available after other franchises buy new fleets, cascade and ROSCO's scrap the good stuff to keep prices high for the end-of-life rust buckets.
     
  5. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    Mugby was on his return journey - heading towards Derby.
    The signal at the end of the platform heading towards Crewe is generally cleared before the train approaches the platform but I have seen the train stop in the platform with the barriers still up and the signal red therefore - there is a modest distance between the signal and the road. Very rare, possibly only once have I seen it.
    Heading towards Derby, the signal is before the crossing (obviously) but there is another level crossing east of the station at Cresswell Lane. On a 222, it is front door of front carriage only, and the remainder of the train sits blocking the road until the passenger call is completed.
     
  6. Old Yard Dog

    Old Yard Dog Member

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    This service has really gone down the nick over the last few years. It used to be a very useful through service from Crewe to Skegness, operated by two-car 158s. Then it was cut back to Nottingham. The final kick in the teeth occurred when it was cut back to Derby with poorly timed connections to and from Nottingham. And the last service from Derby to Crewe is inconveniently early at 2042.

    Many services are often run by single car 153's which leads to serious overcrowding, particularly when there are major football matches on or racing at Uttoxeter. And, in my admittedly limited experience, cancellations are not infrequent, nor are curtailments at Stoke.

    In an ideal world, the service could extend to Chester replacing/augmenting the short TfW shuttles, but I accept that it would be impractical to cross the WCML at Crewe even though the move is technically feasible. Indeed I have done it on a special.
     
  7. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Manchester Airport seems to make the most sense, regarding through moves at Crewe.

    Neither Derby or Nottingham have services to MAN (and Derby not to Manchester at all!) - so I'd think at minimum that could be an interesting route. There's potential here as a regional/XC lite routing which I think could do more.
     
  8. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Member

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    I think most people from Derby don't want to go to Manchester, which is why there isn't a service. There are plenty of Manchester trains from Stoke and Kidsgrove. There used to be summer through trains to Chester and North Wales, which were always crowded. But crossing the WCML hourly now would be difficult. So bar building a flyover, Crewe is probably best as terminal.
     
  9. ashworth

    ashworth Established Member

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    Going back to even before the days of Crewe to Skegness it used to be Crewe-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Lincoln. That was a really useful hourly service providing Nottingham with direct links to Crewe for connections to the WCML and North Wales plus far better connections from Lincoln via one change of train at Derby.
    This was certainly the service pattern during the 1970's as I used it regularly over a period of 4 years travelling to and from Derby direct from Lowdham on the Nottingham to Lincoln line. There were also a very small number of trains which ran right through beyond Lincoln to Cleethorpes as I remember a friend who used this on Friday evenings to travel back home direct from Derby to Market Rasen.
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2018
  10. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    It might be practical again once HS2 reaches Crewe. With some high-speed services bypassing the station completely(?), and the talk of putting some platforms on the independent lines (which would be of particular benefit to Cardiff-Manchester services, bypassing the northern throat) things may slacken up enough to allow a Stoke-Chester pathing across the station..
     
  11. vlad

    vlad Member

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    How about Nottingham - Derby - Stoke - Crewe - Middlewich - Greenbank - Chester? <D
     
  12. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

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    I'm not aware of any market research that supports or disproves this assertion. - My theory is that the reason there isn't a service because of a lack of paths and rolling stock.

    My second theory, based on occasionally using the route on business (and finding the existing one coach train from Derby to Stoke per hour woefully inadequate) is that if there was a fast, reliable and more frequent service, people from Derby would be delighted to travel to Manchester by train on business or for work, the the demand would rise quickly.
     
  13. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Member

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    It did run to Manchester Airport for a short while, but never reached double figures for passenger numbers. And that’s with no through trains to the airport from any station except Crewe.
    If a service to Manchester was introduced it would still be faster to change at Stoke, whilst a through train is often preferred, the faster journey time isn’t attracting people at the moment.
    I’m not saying the current service isn’t poor, but I’m not sure running to Manchester is the answer
     
  14. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    Is there a path available for a second train from Derby, at XX:22 to work to Manchester? If not, is there room for a South facing Bay at Stoke?
     
  15. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Member

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    Loads of room at Stoke for extending the North bay (platform 3) into a through platform, so adding a South Bay certainly no issue. But is it really worth it?
    To provide a balanced working it would need to turn round pretty quick at Stoke, and platforms 1 & 2 are both bi-directionally signalled.
    Aside from all that, if there’s spare stock to be had for this service, probably best to just strengthen existing service
     
  16. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    The Stoke - Derby Market is there, but I doubt there is as much demand from the intermediate stations.
     
  17. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    Oi!

    I am part of the intermediate market and I am very demanding.

    Alternative inter-urban links do not exist in this corridor, despite the good express road available. Pairs of stations may be linked eg Uttoxeter to Tutbury, but there is no service from Uttoxeter to Derby (it's nearest big shopping/leisure destination). Nor from any of the stations to Stoke-on-Trent (for onward rail connections). Plus there is this place called Alton Towers, popular with the youngsters. Now virtually unserved by public transport.
     
  18. 43055

    43055 Member

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    Yes very true and it doesn't help that the bus services have been reduced quite a bit in the last few years with Uttoxeter having no buses at all on Sundays! I think longer or more frequent trains will help, even if it is 2 coaches instead of 1 as 2 coaches on peak hour services from the Derby end of the route seam quite reasonable on the times when a 156 or 158 has turned up on the 0758 from Tutbury.
     
  19. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    Don't get me started on the lack of Public Transport to Alton Towers...
     
  20. The_Train

    The_Train Member

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    Haven't they recently put a car park behind the platform 2 building?
     
  21. The_Train

    The_Train Member

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    There were rumblings of the Churnet Valley extending back to Alton Towers wasn't there? The trackbed and platforms are still there
     
  22. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    I used the through train to the Airport (from Crewe) several times. The pattern was that if the train came in from Derby with 30 aboard 28 would alight at Crewe and 3 or 4 would board. With a Crewe - Airport - Crewe running time of around an hour it meant that a unit (a 170 at the time) was devoted to carrying half a dozen people across rural Cheshire. Nice for the half dozen (myself included) but hardly sensible.
     
  23. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Member

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    Indeed, but there’s room for a bridge, or subway, extension too. A bay would not affect it either, only a through platform would need some form of crossing.

    There was, several years ago. But with Oakamoor tunnel needing a lot of work & the water main (or was it sewer) being relaid on the trackbed, it’s very, very unlikely now. Not only that, but Alton station is some distance from the Alton Towers entrance, on a narrow road with no pavement. But the good news, it’s a downhill walk all the way back to the station.
     
  24. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    Extend the Alton Towers monorail to Stoke :)
     
  25. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    Considering there's already an hour wait for it in the morning......
     
  26. M60lad

    M60lad Member

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    What's wrong with Public Transport to Alton Towers at the moment?

    I remember when First Potteries used to run a regular service to Alton Towers from Hanley now this year it seemed to just be a a couple of services in the morning and then return journies in the evening.

    Also didn't Alton Towers themselves operate their own Bus Services to various places including Derby and other places once over?
     
  27. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Member

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    Alton Towers did run their own staff buses, but to claim fuel duty back they made them public services too. But this caused more trouble than it was worth.

    First did run an “all-inclusive” bus & admission ticket service. But this was a lot of trouble and effort to run. And when Alton Towers changed their ticketing system, the service ceased.
     
  28. ag51ruk

    ag51ruk Member

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    There is an hourly bus from Ashbourne to Derby, but it's not direct (journey time well over an hour via Ashbourne). Arriva/Wardle did try buses from Hanley to Derby a few years ago (the X50 using branded double deck buses) but there didn't seem to be enough demand for it
     
  29. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    Indeed, my 'bad' as the young people would have it! As an occasional user of the Swift you would have thought that I would remember it, but my head still has it as two separate routes: Uttoxeter to Ashbourne and Mayfield to Derby.

    Indeed, it was rather useful, passing my front door and dropping me off in the centre of Derby. Also convenient in the other direction - 20 minutes direct to Stoke Station instead of an hour plus via Hanley. The timetable was poor though. Like many routes, it had holes in at school-times, just when I wanted to use it for a return journey.
     

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