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Desiro v Electrostar

Desiro or Electrostar?


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Prestige15

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Which of the two do you like the most?

I'm going for the Electrostar, I think in my opinion has the better interior, Better seating plan/layout and the air con system is a lot quieter.

The only thing i'm not a fan on are the 387's, Down to their lazy first class seats and the rockhard seats itself. Sitting on a pile of rocks would be more comfortable.
 
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class387

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The Desiro, though I prefer the interior of the newer Electrostars. Just seems like a better built train.
 

phoenixcronin

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The Desiros (especially the dangwayed ones) are certainly much uglier IMHO than the Electrostars. I think the biggest problem is the headlights, which just look odd. I also prefer the Electrostars smooth whining noise compared to the robot/R2D2 pulse sound of the Desiros.

My favourite Electrostar would have to be the 379s, due to their proper 2+1 first class compared to the 387s, and also the Overground 378s, which are very good despite their dodgy PIS and announcements.
 

class387

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Agreed that Electrostars are good-looking. The older Electrostar light design isn't as good though and the Desiro City (can we count that?) is a brilliant looking train.
 

Harbornite

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I can't really say because I haven't been on any Electrostars, but I don't have any problems with any of the Desiro variants that I've been on.

Another interesting comparison will be the Desiro City and the Aventra which can be made when the latter units start coming into service.
 

J-2739

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Only been on a 185 out of all the bunch so I'll judge by looks. Desiros to me look nice, but the 360's are hideous and looks boring. Electrostars are nicer looking (except the earlier ones). However, Desiro Cities are probably one of the the best looking while TFL Aventras are pretty fish looking.
 

phoenixcronin

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Only been on a 185 out of all the bunch so I'll judge by looks. Desiros to me look nice, but the 360's are hideous and looks boring. Electrostars are nicer looking (except the earlier ones). However, Desiro Cities are probably one of the the best looking while TFL Aventras are pretty fish looking.

I agree, its a shame that the Class 345s have been given that horrific squashed fish face. However, I actually think the 360s look OK compared to the 350s/450s, which are pretty ugly.
 

class387

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The 350/450/444s don't look too bad to me, though I don't like the 360.

It is a shame that the Aventra looks like that. The artist's impressions looked so promising. Compare:
 

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Harbornite

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I thought I'd share this pic from Paul Bigland's blog of the proposed Siemens Desiro Verve. To me, it looks like it's squinting and all I'll say is that I've seen better (and worse).

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/category/siemens/



Here's a pic from http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2015/railtex-new-trains/

1-Siemens-Desiro-Verve-125mph-intercity-EMU-by-Phil-Marsh-4945.jpg
 
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class387

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I thought I'd share this pic from Paul Bigland's blog of the proposed Siemens Desiro Verve. To me, it looks like it's squinting and all I'll say is that I've seen better (and worse).

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/category/siemens/

e4605e909

Don't like it. It doesn't look better than a 700 nor does it look like it is a better IC train than a 700 with an IC layout.

Also, the picture is broken for me.
 

Harbornite

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Don't like it. It doesn't look better than a 700 nor does it look like it is a better IC train than a 700 with an IC layout.

Also, the picture is broken for me.


Indeed, I'll find a working pic.
 

Clansman

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I always thought this render topped the lot for Crossrail:
 

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Prestige15

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The 350/450/444s don't look too bad to me, though I don't like the 360.

It is a shame that the Aventra looks like that. The artist's impressions looked so promising. Compare:

The production of it is a real let down, It makes the 380 or even a class 70 more attractive
 

physics34

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The Desires have a better ride but the early 377/1s are the best overall.
 

387star

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electrostars have two many joins in their internal pannelling and the result isn't as seamless as I think it should be whereas desiros have a much better looking clean white wall effect

also the desiros have much better sound proofing and softer seats. There are also wider spaces in the 3+2 aisles than the 377s. The 444s have a perfect interior.

But if comparing 450s and 377s the 377s might take the nudge because of the generous window seat alignment in the trailing vehicles

overall though the desiros feel like a much better train- as if more thought has gone into them. They look like they were built to last and are ageing well

plus the squeaky 377 seat back trays drive me nuts
 

fgwrich

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Desiros anytime. Yes the air con can be a little noisy and yes, the ride on some of the 450s can at times feel a little stiff but. Unlike numerous trips on Electrostars I have never had a trip on a Desiro that hasn't had no air con, uncofortable of felt badly built. For example, what I dislike about the Electrostars are - the pointless overhead reading lights that don't match up with the seats and offer nothing, the awful ride quality over the bogies, the dire interior layout in some of the units - you can easily walk down the isle of a packed 450 with its 3+2, it is t as easy walking through a 377 in the evening peak as I've had to find out several times over the past week, the overall feeling of cheapness across the electrostar family - impressively none of SWTs Desiros have yet received a refurbishment, not because they need them but because of good quality and preventative maintenance. Unlike several of Southerns Electrostars for example, some of which are seeing their second and third refurbishments come up. And the Electrostar air conditioning has never impressed me either, the worst was a journey to an apprenticeship interview - on a 375 with no air con, on the hottest day of the year. Having to buy a replacement shirt before the interview did not leave me impressed! And that's all without mentioning the curse of the missing door buttons...

But also, and ultimately reliability also does it for me. Remember when we had all those winter snow storms? SWT ran a revised timetable but to a near full day. Southern and South Eastern both could not due to rolling stock issues. Another plus point I will have for Siemens is that the Desiro Mk1 fleet were built from 2002-2013, with Siemens working on they're replacement as far back as 2010 - Bombardier on the other hand are stuck in the Model T ford principle, you can have any train you want as long as it's an Electrostar - 1999 - 2017, it just doesn't look or feel fresh anymore, no matter what small upgrades Derby tries to stuff inside it. The desiro fleet feel like they're designed and built by Engineers. The Electrostar fleet, does not.

Of course it all remains to be seen how the Desiro City's will fare against the Aventra, but my money's already feeling safe on one!
 

chris11256

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I've only experienced 357s and 360s. The sound a Desiro makes as it pulls away drives me insane. So the electrostar gets it. Plus the ride feels quite good on a 357 and I like the seats.

Electrostar reliability does seem to vary. The AC variants seem a lot more reliable that their DC cousins.
 
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507021

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I prefer the Electrostars personally. I really like the overall design of the Electrostar family and I think interiors are nicer. If I had to choose a favourite, it'd be the 387s (hoping to sample some of GWR's later in the year), especially as my only negative point with the 387s are the ironing board seats. I think the seats are OK for short distance trips, but for long distance journeys I don't think they're ideal.
 

satisnek

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I haven't used any of the Electrostar variants much in recent years, only the occasional foray down the Brighton line, but on the other hand travel on the 350s quite regularly. However, as a 170 fan I've voted for the Electrostar. Better windows with less space between them and, certainly in the case of the end vehicles of the 377s, better seats (more comfortably shaped and softer). Ride quality and noise levels seem much of a muchness to me, although it has to be said that doing 100+ on the WCML and running under yellows on the Brighton line perhaps isn't the fairest of comparisons!
 

samuelmorris

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Desiro - I prefer the fit and finish and quieter interior. That said, I prefer the travelling experience on a 387 to a 360/450 due to the interior configuration, perhaps hardly surprising. There isn't really enough of a difference between the platforms themselves to prevent the interior config from swinging which unit I prefer to travel on. However, the electrical noise inside the cabin is far less intrusive on a Desiro. The A/C blowers may be noisy but I'd much rather the brown noise of a fan than the piercing whine of the inverters and to a lesser extent transformer on an Electrostar. Noticeably the 700s are actually worse for this than their predecessors but still less annoying in my experience. I've no objection to that noise from outside, but when on a longer journey it can sometimes give me a headache - baffles me that first class sections are often placed right beside that noise. Then of course the VCBs, both are noisy but it's only the Electrostars that make me jump every time. In my opinion a noise that loud and sudden doesn't really belong in the passenger compartment of any train. Old BR units are practically silent in that regard by comparison, despite how much noisier they are in other aspects.

Agreed on the Desiro DMU seeming superior to the Turbostar. Those things certainly rattle.
 

SEClass375

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Not being on a Desiro is a real disadvantage in this poll however I do have knowledge on their PIS and motor sounds and based on the fact that the PIS has more change of going wrong on the Desiro compared to an Electrostar and the announcements seem to sound better and not rushed. Both motor sounds easily identify the type of train but it is bad for the desiros as it is rather annoying compared to the Electrostars where it sounds like the train is a fast train. Based on this only, I find that the Electrostar wins but I do say that Desiros are way better than the Class 465/466 networkers.
 

swt_passenger

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Both motor sounds easily identify the type of train but it is bad for the desiros as it is rather annoying compared to the Electrostars...

It isn't 'bad' at all. It is simply that Siemens and Bombardier's traction converters operate differently, to achieve the same aim. No doubt if they all sounded the same, then someone else would complain about the lack of variety on the modern railway...
 

Harbornite

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It isn't 'bad' at all. It is simply that Siemens and Bombardier's traction converters operate differently, to achieve the same aim. No doubt if they all sounded the same, then someone else would complain about the lack of variety on the modern railway...

Indeed, I doubt that the majority of passsengers and other people care about the noises that the traction motors make.
 

bramling

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Which of the two do you like the most?

I'm going for the Electrostar, I think in my opinion has the better interior, Better seating plan/layout and the air con system is a lot quieter.

The only thing i'm not a fan on are the 387's, Down to their lazy first class seats and the rockhard seats itself. Sitting on a pile of rocks would be more comfortable.

I prefer Electrostars, especially the earlier ones.

Despite having some niggles, especially the tendency for the interior to rattle, I find them more comfortable than Desiros. The air conditioning is quiet, the legroom is generally good, and the view out of the windows is excellent.

I don't doubt the Desiro is probably marginally the better engineered train (sadly), but from a passenger point of view I much prefer the Electrostar.

For all their faults, Connex did specify a superb interior - although the later Southern interiors aren't bad either.

And if compared to the horrible cramped and uncomfortable class 700 Desiro City, any Electrostar wins hands down for me.
 

cjmillsnun

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Desiros. More reliable, nicer interior, better train.

I always wonder what is broken when I get on a Derby built train, but aside from the bogs being blocked/full on late night services on Desiros, they just work.
 

317666

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Desiro by a country mile. Much better air conditioning (the noise doesn't bother me as I usually wear earphones on the train unless it's a particularly interesting one), better seats, smoother ride, looks better.
 
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