Desiro vs Electrostar ride

[Muzer]

I have to say, I also come down on the side of the Desiro. The Electrostars aren't *bad*, but the Desiros are just brilliantly trains, designed and built really well in almost every respect - and the respects in which they're not as good as I might expect (eg seat padding) the Electrostars are just as bad at, if not worse.

Maybe it's also down to the TOC (SWT IMHO are great at interiors as well as general maintenance), but whenever I've travelled on an Electrostar, I've never felt that high-quality feel I do with a Desiro.

 

[chris11256]

I've found that Desiros(I've only used 360s) have a much harder seat compared to Electrostars(only ever used 357s), adding to this I think electrostars have a better/more comfortable ride. I've seen nothing that screams 'bad quality product'.

Although to an extent it does depend on the route!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The seating quality doesn't really mean very much as different TOCs will have gone for different spec seating to suit the needs of the routes they operate them on.

 

[junglejames]

The SE 375s had quite a cheap interior from new. This is often quite obvious. However the seats are more comfortable than pretty much any Siemens stock here in the UK

 

[samuelmorris]

I've found that Desiros(I've only used 360s) have a much harder seat compared to Electrostars(only ever used 357s), adding to this I think electrostars have a better/more comfortable ride. I've seen nothing that screams 'bad quality product'.

Although to an extent it does depend on the route!

As far as I can tell the 450 seats are the same as the 360s. The 444 seats didn't seem any more comfortable to me other than the prospect of having a table, and being 2+2 arrangement. I've not been on a 350 so I can't speak for those.
357 seats are arguably softer than 360/450 seats, but in 2+3 are so narrow they are really only comfortable if you have an empty seat beside you, otherwise I regularly avoid them (I almost always avoid sitting in the middle of the 3, as do most people - which kind of renders them redundant, anyway I digress). 377/6 seats are odd, but not unduly uncomfortable.
377 and 375 seats (in 2+2 formation) seem the best of the bunch with these units to me - very comfortable and relaxing on longer journeys. Besides the 377/6 I haven't found much of a difference between the subclasses for seats, and I've tried all of 1-5, albeit some only briefly. I've only sat in a 375/7, other 375s have been standing, but that unit too was similar, very pleasant.

 

[user15681]

In terms of seat comfort, the 375/6s and 375/7s feel more comfortable to me and make the ride better. Seems like the early batch of 375s (/3/6/7) are slightly more comfortable (I avoid the 375/3s like the plague, though). The 375/8s feel slightly more uncomfortable and hinder the ride quality a little, but that may just be me. Of course, the 375/9s are the worst of the 375s.

Overall, it seems like the noise inside from traction motors and track is much quieter on the Desiros. It sounds like train movement from switches and jolts is less on the Desiros and that the Desiros feel like a better build, but that the seats are more comfortable on the Electrostars.

 

[al.currie93]

I personally have no preference or see any difference between the two with regards to ride, though I have never been able to do a direct comparison and have far more experience with 377s than any other Desiro family train.

However, I would agree with an earlier post on this thread and do actually find both of them almost too quiet and smooth most of the time; I often prefer to hear the motor sound and the wheels happily screaming, and to feel a bit of motion in the train. In fact, as it's me, if there was a choice between a 377, 450 and a 319 on a non-stop from London to Brighton, I'd actually choose the 319 because of this...

 

[samuelmorris]

I actually travel in the power car of a train most of the time - it makes the noise a bit more 'contiguous' if that makes any sense, and also typically avoids needing to sit either near the toilet, or in a modern EMU, avoids being near the pantograph and the noise of the VCB. It also gives me an audible indication of how fast the train is going, which I find easier to decipher than visual cues from the surroundings going by. Plus of course, it just makes the journey slightly more interesting
It's almost moot on a Desiro though, as the traction motors are barely discernable anyway.

 

[pemma]

As far as I can tell the 450 seats are the same as the 360s. The 444 seats didn't seem any more comfortable to me other than the prospect of having a table, and being 2+2 arrangement. I've not been on a 350 so I can't speak for those.
357 seats are arguably softer than 360/450 seats, but in 2+3 are so narrow they are really only comfortable if you have an empty seat beside you, otherwise I regularly avoid them (I almost always avoid sitting in the middle of the 3, as do most people - which kind of renders them redundant, anyway I digress). 377/6 seats are odd, but not unduly uncomfortable.
377 and 375 seats (in 2+2 formation) seem the best of the bunch with these units to me - very comfortable and relaxing on longer journeys. Besides the 377/6 I haven't found much of a difference between the subclasses for seats, and I've tried all of 1-5, albeit some only briefly. I've only sat in a 375/7, other 375s have been standing, but that unit too was similar, very pleasant.

The seats on the 357s are the same as on the 150s that were refurbished at around the time the 357s were introduced - the North West ones (in 3+2 formation) and the Wales and South West ones (in 2+2 formation), the latter don't have wider seats but have arm rests which makes the seats feel bigger and more comfortable.

The 450s and 350/2s do have narrower seats than the 360s, 444s and 185s. When commenting on the comfort of the 185 seating Vernon Barker made the claim that the standard class seats are the same as what's in First Class on the SWT 450s.

 

[TEW]

The 450s and 350/2s do have narrower seats than the 360s, 444s and 185s. When commenting on the comfort of the 185 seating Vernon Barker made the claim that the standard class seats are the same as what's in First Class on the SWT 450s.

360s have the same narrow seats and internal layout as the 450s and 350/2s.

Well Vernon Barker was wrong then. First Class in 450s have the same seats as 375s/377s have in Standard Class, which are far more comfortable than 185 Standard Class seats.

 

[RobShipway]

I have had a ride on both the Electrostar 377 and the Desiro 450 from Portsmouth Harbour to Havant. I found the ride just a little better on the Desiro, but the Electrostar had more comfortable seats.

 

[notadriver]

I've found that Desiro Class 444s very slow to accelerate compared to Electrostars.

 

[asylumxl]

I've found that Desiro Class 444s very slow to accelerate compared to Electrostars.

Aren't DC Desiros limited in how much power they can draw? I believe 100% can only be used when moving from a stand.

So it's not really a direct comparison.

 

[notadriver]

Well I'm comparing a DC Desiro with an Electrostar on DC?

 

[samuelmorris]

Class 360s are definitely not slow to accelerate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hh3Z2bbgDY

I think as said, the 'slow' acceleration on 444s is from limited power rating (Don't forget they're also 115m long units with the same traction power as the 80m 350/360/450s)

 

[slick]

Class 360s are definitely not slow to accelerate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hh3Z2bbgDY

Indeed the 360s are beasts when it comes to accel. Leaving stratford you can be in the late 60s mph by the time you reach maryland!

Ride quality desiros blow electrostars out of the water. I have never been in a desiro over dodgy point work but the 379s I drive are horrendous. The suspension appears to be much stiffer than even say a 317. To those that know the route try being on a 379 airport service around the curve at bethnal green or stansted junction at linespeed and your guaranteed to loose your coffee. When they first were introduced I'll never forget the amount of swearwords I heard from the onboard host behind the cab door as his whole trolley tipped going over the junction . They are so bad I usually knock 5mph off at certain points just for comfort. IF your sitting under a VCB on a electrostar at low speed you'll think somebody has just lobbed a block of concrete on top of the coach. They are incredibly loud and often scare the pants off passengers who dont understand what it is. 379s also appear to be done on the cheap compared to say a 360. The older 377s were much much better IMO comfort wise. 379s At anything above 60mph in an empty carriage everything rattles and squeaks as if it hasn't been fastened properly and most door buttons are gone. I cant say I've ever seen this on any desiro ive been on 350/360/444/450. But those desiro seats, the posture is a little bit overwhelming and you may aswell have two slabs of wood for padding! The aircon is also very loud compared to electrostars.

Either way both are improvements to their predecessors and I think thats one of the most important things. They are both leaps and bounds better than what was running around on the routes they were introduced on, with variations of how good depending on the different classes. The original 377s and 350/1s with 2x2 seating being my favourite of each. Really good seats on both.