Determining permitted routes

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I T S

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Just wondering with the Rail & Sail tickets it always says "Route - ANY PERMITTED"....So if I had a ticket from Belfast to Penzance could I go to Glasgow and travel via the ECML instead of the WCML? Would a guard flag this up if he checked it?
 
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Ivo

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Just wondering with the Rail & Sail tickets it always says "Route - ANY PERMITTED"....So if I had a ticket from Belfast to Penzance could I go to Glasgow and travel via the ECML instead of the WCML? Would a guard flag this up if he checked it?
I've done Belfast to Bath via Middlesbrough (and several other non-WCML locations) before now. The TPE Guard wasn't impressed, but by the time I got off at York we were talking about things like route coverage and the Purley accident (four weeks before I was born) and not fare evasion. In other words, it is not recommended but if you can prove the validity of the route, as I did that day, there should be no cause for alarm.
 

ian13

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Just wondering with the Rail & Sail tickets it always says "Route - ANY PERMITTED"....So if I had a ticket from Belfast to Penzance could I go to Glasgow and travel via the ECML instead of the WCML? Would a guard flag this up if he checked it?
In short, if the Routeing Guide permits it as a route, it's fine.
 

wintonian

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Not all rail and sail ticket are any permitted for example route via Holyhead are wither route Stena P&O or route Irish Ferries but this has the effect of them being ant permitted for the rail part.

Penzance to Ayr is valid by combining any permitted routes to London and any permitted routes from London as well as any permitted routes Penzance - Ayr as defined in the routing guide.

If memory serves me right using the ECML from London is permitted to Ayr.
 

Ivo

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If memory serves me right using the ECML from London is permitted to Ayr.
Ayr comes under Kilmarnock and Paisley for RG purposes. Both are valid from London via the ECML (among others), and both have SOS prices that exactly match Ayr (£162). Thus, this is permitted.

Having said this though, it ought to be obvious! Why wouldn't it be valid?

*Disclaimer: I haven't actually checked Paisley.
 

I T S

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So I emailed National Rail last night about travelling via the ECML to see what they would say out of pure interest and got this load of rubbish back this morning

Dear Chris

Thank you for your email about the Rail & Sail.

There is a Rail & Sail to Belfast and Ireland. This ticket offers an all in one ticket for rail (from any Scottish station), coach link (between Ayr and Cairnryan) and ferry travel to Belfast (via Cairnryan) with Stena Line.

Rail & Sail Anytime Single tickets are only valid for the ferry crossing shown on the ticket and are subject to availability based on ferry capacity. Regrettably, we have very limited information about these tickets and hence I suggest you contact your retailer for specific information. Rail & Sail are available for sale at Stena Line telesales on 08705 455 455.

Alternatively, you can contact the Telesales department for ScotRail on 08457 55 00 33 for more details.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Regards

Customer Relations Executive
National Rail Enquiries
 

hairyhandedfool

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Ayr comes under Kilmarnock and Paisley for RG purposes. Both are valid from London via the ECML (among others), and both have SOS prices that exactly match Ayr (£162). Thus, this is permitted.

Having said this though, it ought to be obvious! Why wouldn't it be valid?

*Disclaimer: I haven't actually checked Paisley.
Are you sure? Admittedly I've only had a quick look in the RG, but I didn't see a way of getting down the Northern part of the ECML using Kilmarnock or the Southern part using Paisley.
 

wintonian

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So I emailed National Rail last night about travelling via the ECML to see what they would say out of pure interest and got this load of rubbish back this morning

Dear Chris

Thank you for your email about the Rail & Sail.

There is a Rail & Sail to Belfast and Ireland. This ticket offers an all in one ticket for rail (from any Scottish station), coach link (between Ayr and Cairnryan) and ferry travel to Belfast (via Cairnryan) with Stena Line.

Rail & Sail Anytime Single tickets are only valid for the ferry crossing shown on the ticket and are subject to availability based on ferry capacity. Regrettably, we have very limited information about these tickets and hence I suggest you contact your retailer for specific information. Rail & Sail are available for sale at Stena Line telesales on 08705 455 455.

Alternatively, you can contact the Telesales department for ScotRail on 08457 55 00 33 for more details.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Regards

Customer Relations Executive
National Rail Enquiries
Wow, I have never got further than "we don't do ferry tickets, you would need to contact the ferry company about prices for the ferry" type answer.
 
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emorris

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Are you sure? Admittedly I've only had a quick look in the RG, but I didn't see a way of getting down the Northern part of the ECML using Kilmarnock or the Southern part using Paisley.
If I understand it correctly:
Kilmarnock to London can use map AS, so via Glasgow, Newton, EDB and down the ECML.
Paisley to London can use GN+HX+ER, so for example, via Glasgow, Carlisle and Newcastle.
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Ah, I didn't check AS (although you'd have to be careful not to double back), silly me. When requesting ECML travel I naturally assumed Glasgow-Edinburgh-Newcastle, rather than Glasgow-Carlisle-Newcastle.
 
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