Dewsbury - Manchester Stns - which ticket

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Crossover

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Quick question...planning on making this journey later today (Sunday) - probably as a return due to the small cost difference., returning same day

From the journey planners, I see TPE are calling at Victoria, so at a guess I'd say they are going via Hebden Bridge after Hudds?

Given this, can I use a via Hebden Bridge (cheaper ticket) on the TPE service tomorrow?

As an aside, I'll be then heading to the Trafford Centre - which is the nearest station to it (I'll get picked up for the journey to the centre so no worries about buses etc) and is there any combination tickets that will keep costs down, or is separate rail and tram tickets the best way to go?
 
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calc7

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East Coast will sell that ticket and itinerary and you can get reservations if you want.

Similar to Virgin services diverted via High Wycombe - there is no doubt that the ticket is valid as you are on a direct service going via Hebden Bridge. If you did have any issues, the good people of RailUKForums will gladly help you get recompensed.

Can't help on the Trafford Centre issue - sorry.
 

gnolife

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I'd suggest Victoria, and take a First Manchester route 100 from Victoria Station Approach (Opposite side to the station). Alternatively, you can walk from Piccadilly to Piccadilly Gardens bus station, and take the Stagecoach Manchester 250 or X50.
 

John @ home

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I see TPE are calling at Victoria, so at a guess I'd say they are going via Hebden Bridge after Hudds?
the ticket is valid as you are on a direct service going via Hebden Bridge.
The ticket is valid if your train goes via Hebden Bridge. That line was closed yesterday due to flooding. It seems to have re-opened today. 1P06 0550 Manchester Victoria - York ran as a train via Hebden Bridge arriving Huddersfield 8 minutes late at 0643, and then became a rail replacement bus to York via Leeds.

If I were making this journey today, I would buy the route Via Hebden Bridge ticket but would excess this on board to route Any Permitted if my train happened to run via Ashton-under-Lyne.
 

34D

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The ticket is valid if your train goes via Hebden Bridge. That line was closed yesterday due to flooding. It seems to have re-opened today. 1P06 0550 Manchester Victoria - York ran as a train via Hebden Bridge arriving Huddersfield 8 minutes late at 0643, and then became a rail replacement bus to York via Leeds.

If I were making this journey today, I would buy the route Via Hebden Bridge ticket but would excess this on board to route Any Permitted if my train happened to run via Ashton-under-Lyne.
John, if the train is _scheduled_ to be via Hebden Bridge (which can possibly only be verified by non-public sources) then the route Hebden Bridge ticket is valid by whatever route last-minute diversions may take it (which I guess would only be via Marsden instead?).
 

calc7

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The ticket is valid if your train goes via Hebden Bridge. That line was closed yesterday due to flooding. It seems to have re-opened today. 1P06 0550 Manchester Victoria - York ran as a train via Hebden Bridge arriving Huddersfield 8 minutes late at 0643, and then became a rail replacement bus to York via Leeds.

If I were making this journey today, I would buy the route Via Hebden Bridge ticket but would excess this on board to route Any Permitted if my train happened to run via Ashton-under-Lyne.
I didn't realise that but thanks for the clarification. In that case, what is the status of geographical route tickets when a train is diverted off the via X part of its route? For instance, another example would be a Birmingham to London via Northampton season ticket, where the Virgin train ends up running via Weedon due to closure of the Northampton loop, say.
 

34D

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I didn't realise that but thanks for the clarification. In that case, what is the status of geographical route tickets when a train is diverted off the via X part of its route? For instance, another example would be a Birmingham to London via Northampton season ticket, where the Virgin train ends up running via Weedon due to closure of the Northampton loop, say.
Depends whether it is a planned diversion, or an unscheduled last minute diversion.
 

calc7

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Depends whether it is a planned diversion, or an unscheduled last minute diversion.
That was my point really - East Coast has this listed as going via Hebden Bridge, and it could then be rediverted due to the flooding. How on earth Mrs Smith from Batley is meant to know this I do not know.
 

John @ home

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John, if the train is _scheduled_ to be via Hebden Bridge (which can possibly only be verified by non-public sources) then the route Hebden Bridge ticket is valid by whatever route last-minute diversions may take it (which I guess would only be via Marsden instead?).
I think the difficulty is that the route for a non-stop Huddersfield - Manchester Victoria train is indeed not published. In those circumstances, I think the best advice is to ask the conductor whether the train is valid with a route via Hebden Bridge ticket. The question is what happens if the conductor replies "Sorry, no. We're going via Stalybridge today".

My reading of NRCoC 13(d)(i) and 13(e) is that an excess fare is indeed due in these circumstances. At least 13(e) gives Crossover the right to pay the difference on board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
what is the status of geographical route tickets when a train is diverted off the via X part of its route? For instance, another example would be a Birmingham to London via Northampton season ticket, where the Virgin train ends up running via Weedon due to closure of the Northampton loop, say.
If a Birmingham - London train is known to the public to run via Northampton then a route Via Northampton ticket is valid on that train. The ticket remains valid if the train has to be diverted via Weedon instead.

But that is not quite what we have here. The train normally runs Huddersfield - Manchester Piccadilly via Stalybridge. Due to planned engineering work, the train is diverted to run non-stop Huddersfield - Manchester Victoria instead on Sundays this summer. Crossover wishes to take advantage of this diversion to use a cheaper route via Hebden Bridge ticket.

There are two feasible routes that the diverted train may take, via Marsden, Stalybridge and Ashton-under-Lyne or via Hebden Bridge. The train may well take one of these routes on some Sundays and the other route on others.

As far as I know, the route of the diverted train is not advertised to the public. If that is so, my opinion remains that the route via Hebden Bridge ticket is valid if and only if the train actually goes via Hebden Bridge.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
East Coast has this listed as going via Hebden Bridge, and it could then be rediverted due to the flooding. How on earth Mrs Smith from Batley is meant to know this I do not know.
I was unaware that a train company is publishing the diverted route. If East Coast make an unambiguous statement that the train will go via Hebden Bridge, and Mrs Smith from Batley purchases a route Via Hebden Bridge ticket from East Coast, then she is entitled to rely on that statement even if plans change after the time of purchase.
 

calc7

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I think the difficulty is that the route for a non-stop Huddersfield - Manchester Victoria train is indeed not published. In those circumstances, I think the best advice is to ask the conductor whether the train is valid with a route via Hebden Bridge ticket. The question is what happens if the conductor replies "Sorry, no. We're going via Stalybridge today".

My reading of NRCoC 13(d)(i) and 13(e) is that an excess fare is indeed due in these circumstances. At least 13(e) gives Crossover the right to pay the difference on board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If a Birmingham - London train is known to the public to run via Northampton then a route Via Northampton ticket is valid on that train. The ticket remains valid if the train has to be diverted via Weedon instead.

But that is not quite what we have here. The train normally runs Huddersfield - Manchester Piccadilly via Stalybridge. Due to planned engineering work, the train is diverted to run non-stop Huddersfield - Manchester Victoria instead on Sundays this summer. Crossover wishes to take advantage of this diversion to use a cheaper route via Hebden Bridge ticket.

There are two feasible routes that the diverted train may take, via Marsden, Stalybridge and Ashton-under-Lyne or via Hebden Bridge. The train may well take one of these routes on some Sundays and the other route on others.

As far as I know, the route of the diverted train is not advertised to the public. If that is so, my opinion remains that the route via Hebden Bridge ticket is valid if and only if the train actually goes via Hebden Bridge.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was unaware that a train company is publishing the diverted route. If East Coast make an unambiguous statement that the train will go via Hebden Bridge, and Mrs Smith from Batley purchases a route Via Hebden Bridge ticket from East Coast, then she is entitled to rely on that statement even if plans change after the time of purchase.
Thanks John - your explanation makes good sense. I agree that in general diversions on this route could be subject to change.

For the last paragraph, the East Coast website shows the trains between Dewsbury and Manchester as available using the cheaper "via Hebden Bridge" fare (and so, logically, reasonable for a passenger to assume that the train is going via Hebden Bridge).
 
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TPE usually advertise that trains are being 'diverted via the Calder Valley and so will be unable to serve X, Y...' so Via Hebden Bridge is implied by them.
 

Crossover

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Thanks for the all the responses. I will double check things when I'm on the PC shortly. I did look on traintimes.im last night and it has shown a schedule that it reverses at Hudd and goes via Hebden Bridge, so it seems there are planned works today
 

yorkie

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Booking online and obtaining an itinerary/reservation is what I always recommend in these situations.

Without an itinerary/reservation then if the train does not go via Hebden Bridge, the guard may ask for an excess fare of 50p (change of route excess for a CDR from Rte: Hebden Bridge to Rte: Any Permitted, outward portion only, with a Railcard).
 

34D

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As far as I know, the route of the diverted train is not advertised to the public.
Does not the 'via' on nationalrail and some other planners include trains that pass through a timing point? If not, then http://www.opentraintimes.com is a public source of information.

If that is so, my opinion remains that the route via Hebden Bridge ticket is valid if and only if the train actually goes via Hebden Bridge.
Again, I do disagree with your point of view, but do respect it and see where you are coming from.
 
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