DfT advise TOCs that full timetable is to be restored on 6 July

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infobleep

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Presumably this is a combination of low demand, the need to provide a guard, the issue with the reversal at Redhill and the use of Turbos between Reading and Bedwyn.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-class-165-166-turbo-diagrams.157030/page-24#post-4651615
How interesting. I don't see why the reversal would matter as they reverse in normal times. Are they just doing it for consistency across the day,? Although even that would seem odd, as the staff will lose their competency to go to Gatwick Airport if they don't have any staff running trains there soon.

The government wanting TOCs to run more trains is a nice idea but if the TOCs don't have the staff, due to the pandemic, they just can't.

[Edit:: I reread the other thread again it sunk n that it's due to the stock use to run to Gatwick Airport being pinched and I assume other stock just left to gather dust near Paddington].

Yet despite all this GTR seem to be relatively unscathed and able to run a Saturday service. They do have a lot of DOO. I wonder if that helps?
 
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infobleep

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GWR appear to be running to Gatwick on Sunday evenings - which perhaps maintains the competency.

So what enables them to be able to reversal on a Sunday evening but not a week day morning I wonder? I should really Tweet them to ask. However, I suspect they wouldn't answer the question. Still no harm in trying.

I see it is just two trains on a Sunday night that go to Gatwick Airport but just one that returns.
 
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takno

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So what enables them to be able to reversal on a Sunday evening but not a week day morning I wonder? I should really Tweet them to ask. However, I suspect they wouldn't answer the question. Still no harm in trying.

I see it is just one train on a Sunday night that goes to and from Gatwick Airport. The last one of the day.
Seems like the turnaround time you mentioned in Redhill is long enough for the driver and guard to take a PNB on the train and be ready to run it back. If they are short of staff, or short of messroom space at Reading, that may allow them to keep the service running at all.
 

Ianno87

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I see Northern Rail are STILL at it with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" messaging. Even though a lot of the non-essential shops have been open for a few weeks. Pubs, restaurants, hotels, museums/tourist attractions re-opening today. We're allowed to go on leisure trips and holidays now. And yet Northern Rail are still keeping up with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" claptrap. Unbelievable. But I told you it would probably happen!
Got some e-mails last night from various operators.

Greater Anglia's starts with the subject "Travelling with Confidence" and starts off promisingly enough...until you get to "...but for now, please only travel by train if you have to". Oh well.


TfL meanwhile outline a list of things to expect if you've not travelled for a while - clearly expecting an influx of returning passengers. No "please travel another way" to be seen anywhere.

Great Northern/Thameslink with the slightly more open ended "Can you travel another way?"

I'm pro-rail, and even I'm hopelessly confused by the range of messaging. TOCs need to consider the long term damage this is doing.
 

northernchris

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I see Northern Rail are STILL at it with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" messaging. Even though a lot of the non-essential shops have been open for a few weeks. Pubs, restaurants, hotels, museums/tourist attractions re-opening today. We're allowed to go on leisure trips and holidays now. And yet Northern Rail are still keeping up with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" claptrap. Unbelievable. But I told you it would probably happen!
Although their latest press release is slightly more encouraging


They are now acknowledging peaks and later trains at weekends will be busier and no mention of essential travel only. Small steps it seems
 

route101

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Scotrail , say can you travel another way? But when you read their repsonses its either , its up to you or not yet !
 

TheSel

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Transport for Wales 'Borderline' service will resume "normal" service levels from Monday, except for the half-mile or so between Wrexham General and Wrexham Central which will not be served other than a couple of early morning / late evening runs. Presumably to make the timetable more robust, and provide a little contingency.

From TfW's website:

Wrexham – Bidston line services will run between Wrexham General and Bidston except the first and last service that will call at Wrexham Central It is an approximately half a mile walk between Wrexham General and Wrexham Central. Alternative travel arrangements between the two stations is available please phone 0333 3211202
 

infobleep

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Meanwhile the clueless DfT continue their messaging:


“As restrictions are eased today, we are still asking people to stay off public transport if they can but that is likely to result in more traffic on our roads.

If you are making a journey this weekend, find out how you can #TravelSafely here: bit.ly/2NOjTJJ”
I thought that was the consistent messaging, only use public transport if you can't use an alternative. As opposed to the South Western Railway poster at Guildford railway station, which read:
Do not travel by
train for leisure
The more cluelsss bit is asking operators to return to a normal service.
 

Huntergreed

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A nice message from Scotrail twitter this morning:

You've stayed home, you've saved lives, and we can't thank you enough for that. Scotland's Railway can't wait to have you back
Accompanying this is a shift from “essential only” to “can you travel another way?”, glad to see this! I can only hope the few TOC’s which haven’t adjusted yet do so over the weekend or into next week!

Edit: I take this back, on the very first comment on the tweet, someone asked if we were able to travel again, to which they replied “necessary journeys only” :rolleyes:

Talk about mixed messaging!
 

Ianno87

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A nice message from Scotrail twitter this morning:



Accompanying this is a shift from “essential only” to “can you travel another way?”, glad to see this! I can only hope the few TOC’s which haven’t adjusted yet do so over the weekend or into next week!

Edit: I take this back, on the very first comment on the tweet, someone asked if we were able to travel again, to which they replied “necessary journeys only” :rolleyes:

Talk about mixed messaging!
For crying out loud...
 

infobleep

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This is what is on National Rail Enquiries online departure board for Guildford Railway Station.

Screenshot_20200704-101018_National Rail.jpg

The above image has the wording
We are still running a reduced train service. In line with government advice, please only travel if your journey is necessary. If you do need to travel by train, bring a face covering with you and wear it throughout your journey, as it is now compulsory. Find out more at
nationalrail.co.uk/coronavirus
Will they update that message by Monday? I don't want to discuss the message itself here as other threads are doing that it's just more about timetables and highlighting the messaging supporting them.
 

YorksDMU

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Although their latest press release is slightly more encouraging


They are now acknowledging peaks and later trains at weekends will be busier and no mention of essential travel only. Small steps it seems
Thank you for that link and information. I’ve just taken a look at the services between Hull and Beverley, during the day, and it’s still only one train every two hours which is totally inadequate. Our roads around here, between Beverley and Hull are full of cars, and with the latest easing of the restrictions, more trains are needed at all times of the day, even if it’s just a Hull to Beverley turn round type service, like it used to be in the 60’s and 70’s. Something to get people out of their cars and back onto the trains.
 

Huntergreed

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Are you allowed to travel by train or not for leisure ?
Yes you are allowed to travel by train for anything currently permitted in the legislation, just as you're allowed to use any other form of transport.

You're asked to consider using other forms of transport before taking the train, but you are definitely permitted to do so, despite what the messaging from some TOC's would lead you to think.
 

Howardh

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Although their latest press release is slightly more encouraging


They are now acknowledging peaks and later trains at weekends will be busier and no mention of essential travel only. Small steps it seems
Thanks, the last train (eg Weds next week) is still 2231 from Piccadilly to Bolton, which isn't much use for the nightime economy (although there are normal buses later). I'm gonna e-mail "Glyn" and ask what their plans are.
 

Howardh

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Are you allowed to travel by train or not for leisure ?
Can one use the train simply for the pleasure of a train ride (ie no other purpose eg. shopping)? Frankly due to the need to keep people apart I would suggest it's ill-advised so you don't have more than the necessary pax, but is it permitted? Maybe it isn't until there's a full timetable again?
 

Huntergreed

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Can one use the train simply for the pleasure of a train ride (ie no other purpose eg. shopping)? Frankly due to the need to keep people apart I would suggest it's ill-advised so you don't have more than the necessary pax, but is it permitted? Maybe it isn't until there's a full timetable again?
Yes, you can and this is entirely possible and permitted by the legislation, there is no clause saying they can prevent you from travelling simply due to the reason for your journey (as far as I am aware)
 

Fisherman80

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Thank you for that link and information. I’ve just taken a look at the services between Hull and Beverley, during the day, and it’s still only one train every two hours which is totally inadequate. Our roads around here, between Beverley and Hull are full of cars, and with the latest easing of the restrictions, more trains are needed at all times of the day, even if it’s just a Hull to Beverley turn round type service, like it used to be in the 60’s and 70’s. Something to get people out of their cars and back onto the trains.
Even though I dont live over that way,ive just had a look at the timetable for the Scarborough to Hull and what an absolute farce it is. So basically the Basically the Bridlington to Hull section has roughly 25% of the services running compared to pre lockdown?
 

45107

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Yes, you can and this is entirely possible and permitted by the legislation, there is no clause saying they can prevent you from travelling simply due to the reason for your journey (as far as I am aware)
I posted this in the “How to get people back on trains” thread which sums up my understanding of the message. I am aware that others may not take the same view.

The TOCs are using the Government guidelines, which include such measures as ‘social distancing’.
If they encouraged a free for all, they would not be able to stick to these guidelines.
Asking if your journey is necessary (or whatever form of words they choose to use) is a means of discouraging the free for all and overcrowding trains in accordance with the reduced ‘social distancing’ capacity.

Whether or not they should reduce the 2 metre rule or not is a different discussion but at the moment they are collectively sticking to 2 metres.
 

YorksDMU

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Even though I dont live over that way,ive just had a look at the timetable for the Scarborough to Hull and what an absolute farce it is. So basically the Basically the Bridlington to Hull section has roughly 25% of the services running compared to pre lockdown?
Yes, that’s right. It is a service which is of no real use, and also, of course, the through service to Sheffield is still not reinstated either. We very much are now a backwaters branch line. I hope things will improve later this month, but I’m not hopeful of that happening.
 

Fisherman80

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Yes, that’s right. It is a service which is of no real use, and also, of course, the through service to Sheffield is still not reinstated either. We very much are now a backwaters branch line. I hope things will improve later this month, but I’m not hopeful of that happening.
I tried editing my previous reply!
An hourly service would have been a start but 2 hourly is absolutely ridiculous. I would love to know just what percentage Northern are operating their services at after the 6th of July compared to other TOCs.
 

yorkie

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I see Northern Rail are STILL at it with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" messaging. Even though a lot of the non-essential shops have been open for a few weeks. Pubs, restaurants, hotels, museums/tourist attractions re-opening today. We're allowed to go on leisure trips and holidays now. And yet Northern Rail are still keeping up with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" claptrap. Unbelievable. But I told you it would probably happen!
I agree and totally share your frustration, but this thread is supposed to be about timetable changes ;)
Are you allowed to travel by train or not for leisure ?
This thread is about the timetable changes.

To be clear, there are no restrictions on the use of public transport and the current Government advice can be found here:

You can help control coronavirus and travel safely by:
  • ....
  • considering all other forms of transport, such as cycling and walking, before using public transport
  • ....
There are other threads in which this question has cropped up. Relevant threads include:
There is plenty of reading material there!

Getting back on topic, does anyone have any contributions on the subject of timetable changes? :)
 

infobleep

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Are Govia Thameslink Railway the TOC with the highest percentage of timetabled services running from Monday vers what they'd run prelock down on a Monday or is another TOC running at a higher percentage level?
 

Jamesrob637

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Are Govia Thameslink Railway the TOC with the highest percentage of timetabled services running from Monday vers what they'd run prelock down on a Monday or is another TOC running at a higher percentage level?
I wish I lived or had a property in GTR land as I would've been down there this month. Trouble is GTR only serve expensive commuter belts. 9/10 for their efforts though.

Cross Country haven't made much improvement. The Bristol/Exeter to Manchester still aren't running, though rather than have Vomiters sat in depots they are running doubles elsewhere (even weekends it seems from today). 3/10.

TPE have plugged a load of gaps to a just about pleasant service provided that all services are 5-car or 6-car and will allegedly reinstate more services as the weeks pass. 5/10.

Northern are hit and miss as the person in Beverley has said that the service there is still atrocious however my local station gets at least 2tph and 3tph some hours. Again though, there is the rumour of increased services over the coming weeks. 4/10 overall for now.

Avanti are back up to 3tph Monday to Saturday on London though what the fares will be like is another story. 8/10 if only for the increase in frequency.

By the way the marks out of 10 reflect the service around Stockport/Manchester.
 

bramling

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Are Govia Thameslink Railway the TOC with the highest percentage of timetabled services running from Monday vers what they'd run prelock down on a Monday or is another TOC running at a higher percentage level?
On paper London Underground is now attempting a 100% service on most lines, although with varying amounts of on-the-day cancellations, and of course no overnight service.

LU does have the advantage that with a metro service random cancellations aren’t really a problem for much of their network, whereas the less frequent the service the more important reliability becomes.

GTR have been pretty good on the GN and TL sides to be fair. What they have planned has been fit for purpose, and what they have promised has been reliably delivered. The Saturday service with peak extras is possibly a wise way to do things, as presumably it gives the scope to focus on the core Saturday service and then make the peak extras the first choice for cancellations if resources aren’t available (although to do that you need to have good management/staff relations to allow juggling to happen).

It’s worth noting that GTR is *not* running a full MF service, but a Saturday base service with extras added to mirror elements of what would happen on MF. They of course have the luxury that the Saturday base service provides identical train lengths to what would happen MF.

Taking Hitchin as an example, I think the 700 service is now 100% (albeit 1tph terminating Royston vice Cambridge) and there will now be 3x up 365 services vice 6x, and 3x down 365 services vice 8x. So a net shortfall compared to normal of 24 carriages to London in the morning peak and 40 carriages from London in the evening peak and early evening.

I haven’t looked to see what they’re doing on the fast Cambridge services, as the base Saturday service is more geared to day trips to London and Cambridge rather than commuting in terms of train lengths (there were some oddities earlier in the lockdown when 4-car trains were working some services at busier key worker times, and then 12-car trains at times when literally no one was travelling - although with the very low numbers this wasn’t really an issue, more of a curiosity).
 
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ChrisC

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Northern are hit and miss as the person in Beverley has said that the service there is still atrocious however my local station gets at least 2tph and 3tph some hours. Again though, there is the rumour of increased services over the coming weeks. 4/10 overall for now.
I don’t know whether I am missing something but looking at the revised timetables for Monday 6th July Northern still do not seem to be improving the service between Sheffield and Leeds via Barnsley. There is still only 1tph which is the slow service via Castleford. I would have thought that at least the semi fast Leeds to Nottingham service ought to be running. There does now seem to be an hourly Sheffield to Nottingham train instead of the replacement bus which has been running in recent weeks. The hourly all stations Sheffield to Lincoln also continues.
 

Anonymous10

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I see Northern Rail are STILL at it with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" messaging. Even though a lot of the non-essential shops have been open for a few weeks. Pubs, restaurants, hotels, museums/tourist attractions re-opening today. We're allowed to go on leisure trips and holidays now. And yet Northern Rail are still keeping up with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" claptrap. Unbelievable. But I told you it would probably happen!
With social distancing there's only so many people any toc can transport at once on one train and I personally agree with their decision those who's journey is essential should be prioritized if u rely on the train to get to work u need that seat a summer holiday can be missed
 
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