DfT advise TOCs that full timetable is to be restored on 6 July

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TheSel

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Hospitality is PERMITTED to open (in most of England, anyway), but I suspect that many venues' opening hours will be restricted. I know for a fact that my 'local' will be opening 34 hours a week, rather than 44.5 hours a week in pre-Covid 19 times, so about 75%, and at reduced internal capacity.
 
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Ianno87

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Spotted a new Greater Anglia electronic billboard that's appeared alongside one of the main roads in Cambridge. Message (with the 'Hare'):

Plan Ahead
Consider Others
Keep Safe

(Plus sentence underneath I couldn't make out as I was driving).

If that replaces 'Essential Travel Only', I'd be satisfied.
 

markydh

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Let’s be honest, even from Monday, many routes in the north of England are barely operating at 50%. Avanti are still only operating hourly north of Preston. TPE are only operating every 2 hours (plus the odd Liverpool) on the Airport - Scotland route. LNER are still operating roughly 3 trains every 2 hours north of York. Northern are barely offering a third of a normal timetable on the Tyne Valley Line. XC are still only extending to Edinburgh every 2 hours and have only added a couple of extra services from Newcastle. TPE are still only operating 50% of trains on the York - Newcastle route, etc.
 

northernchris

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Northern Chester service from Halifax still only every 2 hours although hourly to Man Vic. Hull service not listed on RTT until September. Evening service still finishing early. Bit disappointing given that hospitality is open from Saturday really
The Calder Valley route gets a poor deal, Leeds - Halifax is usually 4 trains per hour and currently gets an hourly Leeds - Manchester Victoria and a 2 hourly Leeds - Preston. Northern aren't even using the longest possible formations either and from what I gather there's some busy services already, despite Northern's you're not welcome unless you're a key worker message
 

bramling

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Spotted a new Greater Anglia electronic billboard that's appeared alongside one of the main roads in Cambridge. Message (with the 'Hare'):

Plan Ahead
Consider Others
Keep Safe

(Plus sentence underneath I couldn't make out as I was driving).

If that replaces 'Essential Travel Only', I'd be satisfied.
Planning ahead and considering others?

Oh dear, if that’s the new catchphrase then we really are in trouble! Two things that many people seem completely incapable of doing...
 

theironroad

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From the SWR website. It states that there timetable from Monday runs until September 4tg
Thanks, found it. Disappointing, but I've found it and a bit surprised they've committed to 2 months rather than a review at start of August.

Certainly going to be an increasing amount of annoyed passengers travelling west of Southampton over the summer.
 

abbo1234

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Trains to / from Blackpool North are going to be rammed on Saturday.still only the hourly Hazle Grove plus a Limestreet every 2 hours.Last week people were sitting in the do not use seats,this week i can see it being standing only by the

time i get on at Chorley, and thats if i can get on.
 

sleeper fan

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Thanks, found it. Disappointing, but I've found it and a bit surprised they've committed to 2 months rather than a review at start of August.

Certainly going to be an increasing amount of annoyed passengers travelling west of Southampton over the summer.
Your telling me it's a huge faff to get to London when the train is near always late in Normal times let alone once an hour from Bournemouth and shuttles. It's weird they have committed to certain routes but not others.
 

Ianno87

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Planning ahead and considering others?

Oh dear, if that’s the new catchphrase then we really are in trouble! Two things that many people seem completely incapable of doing...
All passengers (who are able) universally wearing face coverings would be a good start.
 
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Chris Heaton-Harris just notified parliament that service levels will be at 85% of plan from 6/7.

Also Shapps advised TfL have been given powers to enforce face coverings and that after a soft start on enforcement BTP will enforcing.
 

DannyMich2018

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Trains to / from Blackpool North are going to be rammed on Saturday.still only the hourly Hazle Grove plus a Limestreet every 2 hours.Last week people were sitting in the do not use seats,this week i can see it being standing only by the

time i get on at Chorley, and thats if i can get on.
With Northern only saying essential travel only car usage will go through the roof then, esp now with very low petrol prices, many travellers will never now go back to rail- glad I'm not on a Northern route...
 

Bald Rick

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Ive been going into London weekly for last few weeks on Thameslink and even risked coming back in what would have been rush hour timings yesterday and the loadings on the train then were only 4-5/carriage (12 car) between L.Bdge and ECroydon. Journey up was less than 1 person/carriage. My observation is people just aren't travelling into London at anytime of the day currently as to whether a change in hospitality opening from 4/7 will change that i doubt it. Most offices remain closed with limited access as one of there key issues is getting people into/out of buildings safely with limited lift capacity. This is ironic as LSE has the luxury of plenty of transport capacity to manage the numbers with full social distancing compliance that the regional cities lack so im not suggesting this is the norm across the country. Maybe it shows that a reallocation of rolling resources maybe necessary if this becomes the new norm.
Try going in for an 0630-0730 arrival in London and you’ll see a different story.
 

OliverH68

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With Northern only saying essential travel only car usage will go through the roof then, esp now with very low petrol prices, many travellers will never now go back to rail- glad I'm not on a Northern route...
Northern seriously need to drop the 'essential travel only' message. I know other forum members on here have used Northern for non-essential purposes without issue. It's the social media team that are the problem here.
 

Jamesrob637

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Northern seriously need to drop the 'essential travel only' message. I know other forum members on here have used Northern for non-essential purposes without issue. It's the social media team that are the problem here.
Unless things have not yet been finalised and will only be so tomorrow, they need to seriously increase frequencies Monday to Saturday and reintroduce some services struck off since March.

I can see the point of "essential only" for today and tomorrow but it really needs to go or be reworked from this weekend onwards.
 

Gaz55

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The seeming reluctance of Northern to drop the 'essential travel' message and increase services seems a bit out of place, other operators seem to have gone for a more pragmatic approach.
 

theironroad

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Ive been going into London weekly for last few weeks on Thameslink and even risked coming back in what would have been rush hour timings yesterday and the loadings on the train then were only 4-5/carriage (12 car) between L.Bdge and ECroydon. Journey up was less than 1 person/carriage. My observation is people just aren't travelling into London at anytime of the day currently as to whether a change in hospitality opening from 4/7 will change that i doubt it. Most offices remain closed with limited access as one of there key issues is getting people into/out of buildings safely with limited lift capacity. This is ironic as LSE has the luxury of plenty of transport capacity to manage the numbers with full social distancing compliance that the regional cities lack so im not suggesting this is the norm across the country. Maybe it shows that a reallocation of rolling resources maybe necessary if this becomes the new norm.
Well I've just counted on nat rail enq 15 trains running between lbg and ecr between 1400 & 1500 today, so a train on average every 4 minutes, many of which are of a decent length.

Hardly a representative example of busy trains are into and out of London. Many lines have 1 or 2 an hour. Consider yourself lucky.
 

YorksDMU

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Northern seriously need to drop the 'essential travel only' message. I know other forum members on here have used Northern for non-essential purposes without issue. It's the social media team that are the problem here.
I will continue to use Northern’s trains for non essential journeys. Can it ever be that they will actually drop the essential journey only message? That’s in addition to restoring as many services as possible. Like I keep saying, one train every two hours in not enough between Beverley and Hull.
 

Jamesrob637

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I will continue to use Northern’s trains for non essential journeys. Can it ever be that they will actually drop the essential journey only message? That’s in addition to restoring as many services as possible. Like I keep saying, one train every two hours in not enough between Beverley and Hull.
Check again tomorrow as Northern are still finalising plans for next week.
 
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Well I've just counted on nat rail enq 15 trains running between lbg and ecr between 1400 & 1500 today, so a train on average every 4 minutes, many of which are of a decent length.

Hardly a representative example of busy trains are into and out of London. Many lines have 1 or 2 an hour. Consider yourself lucky.
Ironroad fair point but what i was seeking to explore was the fact that some routes have oodles of surplus capacity at the moment and others are clearly being stretched especially when you apply the socialisation downrating factor to available capacity So the industry needs to reappraise where capacity is needed and what it can provide within existing operational restrictions so it supports getting Britain back to work.
 

bramling

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Ironroad fair point but what i was seeking to explore was the fact that some routes have oodles of surplus capacity at the moment and others are clearly being stretched especially when you apply the socialisation downrating factor to available capacity So the industry needs to reappraise where capacity is needed and what it can provide within existing operational restrictions so it supports getting Britain back to work.
There does need to be some thought applied to what capacity is provided when and where. Reduced frequency may be inevitable in some places due to shielding absence, however ideally this should be compensated for with longer formations.

Running base Saturday or Sunday services may well have gone okay thusfar, but going forward there's going to need to be a little more thought than this -- which presumably is what's happening in most places.

Naturally redeploying capacity isn't always possible - it goes without saying that there's no chance, for example, of redeploying an electric 12-car Thameslink 700 to a 2-car Northern DMU route. So difficult decisions will be necessary.
 
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There does need to be some thought applied to what capacity is provided when and where. Reduced frequency may be inevitable in some places due to shielding absence, however ideally this should be compensated for with longer formations.

Running base Saturday or Sunday services may well have gone okay thusfar, but going forward there's going to need to be a little more thought than this -- which presumably is what's happening in most places.

Naturally redeploying capacity isn't always possible - it goes without saying that there's no chance, for example, of redeploying an electric 12-car Thameslink 700 to a 2-car Northern DMU route. So difficult decisions will be necessary.
Granted some stock, especially fixed formation >4 cars is route captive but much isn't. I also get most surplus/stored stock is EMU's but how many routes are we running diesels under the wires for point to point journey convenience vs re configuring services to maximise point to point capacity with stock that's available. This needs an industry wide task force to determine whats required where and with railways effectively in government control they can disregard the commercial matters that get in the way of taking the right decisions in a timely manner to enable the network to move people from A-B where there is demand need and current capacity shortfalls.
 

bramling

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Granted some stock, especially fixed formation >4 cars is route captive but much isn't. I also get most surplus/stored stock is EMU's but how many routes are we running diesels under the wires for point to point journey convenience vs re configuring services to maximise point to point capacity with stock that's available. This needs an industry wide task force to determine whats required where and with railways effectively in government control they can disregard the commercial matters that get in the way of taking the right decisions in a timely manner to enable the network to move people from A-B where there is demand need and current capacity shortfalls.
The trouble is that even if you could remove all the technical obstacles to redeploying stock, there remains the issue that staff training would likely be required, and there’s already a backlog of training across the industry.

I’d say any tweaks are likely to be just that - shuffling things around within the boundaries of what’s already do-able, rather than pushing those boundaries outwards.

It perhaps doesn’t help that at present we don’t really know how things are likely to pan out. Peak services with high capacity are still fairly quiet in places, whilst we have early-morning services going over limits. An operator could shuffle this round, only to find there’s a shift back to traditional times if people start returning to office work.

It might have been helpful if some more Pacers were available, however would there have been the depot capacity to stable and maintain them?
 
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