DfT advise TOCs that full timetable is to be restored on 6 July

[infobleep]

I see South Western Railway not running the late evening services on the Portsmouth Direct

Prior to lockdown there were trains at: 22:30, 23:00, 23:30 and 23:45

During lockdown they removed the 23:00, 23:30 and 23:45. Obviously the Monday only 0:50 isn't running either. It similar for services south of Basingstoke.

I appricate there are local later stopping services to Guildford but these take an hour or more and have no loos on board.

I still don't know what enables GTR to run a Saturday service but not SWR? Is there more damand on GTR, for example, late into the evening?

I see the Cobham stoppers from Guildford are going to be half hourly again. That is welcomed, although alas I have less need to travel on them. The services via Bookham will still be hourly.

From Surbtion where won't be a 17:39 fast or a 18:40 fast to Woking, nor a 18:09 semi-fast but I see more of the Alton and Basingstoke trains will be stopping at Surbtion. In normal times after the 16:41 to Alton leaves there isn't a service until 20:11.

In the summer COVID-19 timetable it will be:16:41, 17:11, 18:11, 18:42, 19:11, 19:42 and 20:11. That's an additional 5 services to Alton! Such a shame I won't be in Surbtion much, if at all, to make use of them.

 

[scrapy]

I've heard (and it's only a rumour, but from a usually reliable source) Northern will increase to around 80% of normal service in mid July so might be 13th might be 20th and this will remain until September.

 

[fishquinn]

Compare that to the evening service on Edinburgh-Glasgow, the most laughable excuse of a public service I've ever seen. During the day you've got the fast trains at xx15 and xx45 (down from 4tph normally) and the last xx45 is at 1945. Unfortunately for all concerned you've got half hourly up to the 2015 departure at which point the only other E&G service of the day is at 2215, a stupid two hour gap, with nothing later. Of course you've also got the Airdrie line but that's really not much use with the last train being at 2053 and taking an hour and 20 mins to get to Edinburgh. To summarise, after the 2015 train from Glasgow you've got TWO trains for the rest of the day to Edinburgh, one of which is a stopper via Airdrie. Rant over.

 

[yorksrob]

I've heard (and it's only a rumour, but from a usually reliable source) Northern will increase to around 80% of normal service in mid July so might be 13th might be 20th and this will remain until September.

On a Southern TOC I would be confident with 80% service.

For Northern, it really does depend on what 20% of services are missing.

 

[Bishopstone]

An aspect of the new GTR timetable is the return of Southern services operated by GatEx stock, *which don’t call at Gatwick Airport* but pass through: in this case, some peak Coastway workings.

This was always good fun in the days of the 442s on the peak London Bridge to Eastbourne and Brighton trips.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a Southern TOC I would be confident with 80% service.

For Northern, it really does depend on what 20% of services are missing.

It does. Controversial it may be, but I'd suggest bustituting the small "one man, dog and bicycle" branches in order to try to get to 100% service on the mainline for now. Obviously not permanently. I'm thinking e.g. the middle bit of the Cumbrian Coast, Ormskirk and Kirkby for three, possibly also Southport past Wigan.

 

[Starmill]

It does. Controversial it may be, but I'd suggest bustituting the small "one man, dog and bicycle" branches in order to try to get to 100% service on the mainline for now. Obviously not permanently. I'm thinking e.g. the middle bit of the Cumbrian Coast, Ormskirk and Kirkby for three, possibly also Southport past Wigan.

Wigan to Southport has very little in common with Millom to Whitehaven.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wigan to Southport has very little in common with Millom to Whitehaven.

It doesn't, but it's a quieter part of Northern's network.

 

[yorksrob]

It does. Controversial it may be, but I'd suggest bustituting the small "one man, dog and bicycle" branches in order to try to get to 100% service on the mainline for now. Obviously not permanently. I'm thinking e.g. the middle bit of the Cumbrian Coast, Ormskirk and Kirkby for three, possibly also Southport past Wigan.

I'm afraid I'm of the opposite opinion. Better to have a useable service on all the network, even if some well resourced routes (which would normally be a lot busier than now), have slightly less than a 100% service.

Southport and the middle Cumbrian coast services aren't "one man, dog and bycicle operations" - infact the Cumbrian coast does genuinely have a lot of key workers (to the powerstation).

 

[ASharpe]

I've heard (and it's only a rumour, but from a usually reliable source) Northern will increase to around 80% of normal service in mid July so might be 13th might be 20th and this will remain until September.

I've been into the office in Leeds 3 times this week and every train has been virtually dead.

A colleague who's service is now hourly missed her train due to the one way system at Leeds. And now doesn't particularly want to come back into the office.

If the service frequency is increased it will probably generate more demand.

 

[route101]

Compare that to the evening service on Edinburgh-Glasgow, the most laughable excuse of a public service I've ever seen. During the day you've got the fast trains at xx15 and xx45 (down from 4tph normally) and the last xx45 is at 1945. Unfortunately for all concerned you've got half hourly up to the 2015 departure at which point the only other E&G service of the day is at 2215, a stupid two hour gap, with nothing later. Of course you've also got the Airdrie line but that's really not much use with the last train being at 2053 and taking an hour and 20 mins to get to Edinburgh. To summarise, after the 2015 train from Glasgow you've got TWO trains for the rest of the day to Edinburgh, one of which is a stopper via Airdrie. Rant over.

Didnt realise it was as bad as that. I thought the services got increased last month.

My local line (EK)only got peaks added.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Thank you, I will do that.

You're welcome. There's also the rumour that Northern will increase week-by-week as posted upthread.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I'm afraid I'm of the opposite opinion. Better to have a useable service on all the network, even if some well resourced routes (which would normally be a lot busier than now), have slightly less than a 100% service.

Southport and the middle Cumbrian coast services aren't "one man, dog and bycicle operations" - infact the Cumbrian coast does genuinely have a lot of key workers (to the powerstation).

Agreed. I've been regularly using the Ormskirk-Preston and Kirkby-Wigan lines to get to and from work during the Covid crisis. I've also had reason to travel on the Cumbrian Coast line on one occasion. The trains have been lightly loaded with less than 10 passengers on board, but I don't think that's a reason to bustitute them completely.

 

[infobleep]

So are TOCs being encouraged to remove posters telling passengers not to make lesirue trips? Obviously this would be from Saturday or Monday.

Sawa poster at Guildford railway statiom this evening which read:
Do not travel by
train for leisure

 

[timothyw9]

I wish Northern would put the Southport services back to normal as it means that the additional peak xx01 MIA to BPN services run express to Bolton and do not stop at Salford Crescent due to pathing issues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. I've been regularly using the Ormskirk-Preston and Kirkby-Wigan lines to get to and from work during the Covid crisis. I've also had reason to travel on the Cumbrian Coast line on one occasion. The trains have been lightly loaded with less than 10 passengers on board, but I don't think that's a reason to bustitute them completely.

It's not specifically because they are quiet (i.e. I'm not "playing Beeching"), but rather because it's the mainlines that will be getting overcrowded, so it may be a better use of staff and stock to intensify and lengthen those services so distancing can be better maintained. 10 people would be fine on a coach, and as there's no tourist work for said coaches they would probably come quite cheap.

Re the Cumbrian Coast it may be necessary to run trains for the Sellafield shift changes, but could be buses at other times.

 

[yorksrob]

Agreed. I've been regularly using the Ormskirk-Preston and Kirkby-Wigan lines to get to and from work during the Covid crisis. I've also had reason to travel on the Cumbrian Coast line on one occasion. The trains have been lightly loaded with less than 10 passengers on board, but I don't think that's a reason to bustitute them completely.

Indeed. I don't know Ormskirk - Preston or Kirkby - Wigan myself, but less than ten passengers seems to have been common for a lot of Northern services during the crisis.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. I don't know Ormskirk - Preston or Kirkby - Wigan myself, but less than ten passengers seems to have been common for a lot of Northern services during the crisis.

While my forum name may suggest otherwise, I'm familiar with both routes as I grew up around there, and neither is what you'd call busy at any time of day. For instance, Ormskirk used to be a single 153 before the interworking with Blackpool S/Colne and I never used a train when there wasn't a double seat each even at commuter times. I recall Kirkby-Wigan mostly being even quieter.

 

[Jamesrob637]

While my forum name may suggest otherwise, I'm familiar with both routes as I grew up around there, and neither is what you'd call busy at any time of day. For instance, Ormskirk used to be a single 153 before the interworking with Blackpool S/Colne and I never used a train when there wasn't a double seat each even at commuter times. I recall Kirkby-Wigan mostly being even quieter.

I need to get to Wigan or Orrell for a date at the end of the month. Hope Kirkby will be running else I'll be forced to drive and you probably know as well as me that Alkohol helps on a first date!

 

[geoffk]

I need to get to Wigan or Orrell for a date at the end of the month. Hope Kirkby will be running else I'll be forced to drive and you probably know as well as me that Alkohol helps on a first date!

What will a socially-distanced date be like?!

 

[Jamesrob637]

What will a socially-distanced date be like?!

That's probably for a completely new/different if existing thread! Looks like at the moment it's nearly an hour's wait in Salford Crescent on the return as Kirkby to Victoria arrives just after Blackpool North to Hazel Grove outbound is marginally better but still 35-40 minutes' wait in SC.

 

[johntea]

I've been into the office in Leeds 3 times this week and every train has been virtually dead.

A colleague who's service is now hourly missed her train due to the one way system at Leeds. And now doesn't particularly want to come back into the office.

If the service frequency is increased it will probably generate more demand.

Hope she claimed delay repay for that! It is rather ridiculous in my opinion at the moment to even have the one way system at Leeds considering there are more of the 'assistants' enforcing it than...erm...passengers but a debate not for this thread...

Back to the timetables and I noticed an odd one tonight, no 19:58 Leeds to Knottingley, would that normally be the service that heads back to Leeds from Goole?

 

[yorksrob]

What will a socially-distanced date be like?!

No canoodling !

 

[Howardh]

I tweeted to Northern asking if/when the "essential travel" rule will be removed, their reply was it's under review weekly, however I have had replies from people alleging to work for Northern that the order is to be removed almost immediately and they have all been told.

Confused!!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Fresh tweet from Network Rail within the last hour; note the use of the word "everyone"... @yorkie - this looks like a welcome shift in the messaging this morning?

Edited to add: Rail Delivery Group has tweeted virtually the same message.

As more businesses reopen, we’re maximising space on trains and boosting cleaning, so everyone can travel safely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I tweeted to Northern asking if/when the "essential travel" rule will be removed, their reply was it's under review weekly, however I have had replies from people alleging to work for Northern that the order is to be removed almost immediately and they have all been told.

Confused!!

The problem is that if they say it will be removed from <date>, it will de-facto be removed immediately. That's the same with all of the restrictions - the last Government announcement meant social distancing in private settings has now near entirely ceased. Only businesses that have to wait for tomorrow by law are doing so because it's easier to control them.

I would predict its removal will therefore be announced, with immediate effect, on the day of the next timetable increase or perhaps a day afterwards to "see how it goes".

 

[Howardh]

The problem is that if they say it will be removed from <date>, it will de-facto be removed immediately. That's the same with all of the restrictions - the last Government announcement meant social distancing in private settings has now near entirely ceased. Only businesses that have to wait for tomorrow by law are doing so because it's easier to control them.

I would predict its removal will therefore be announced, with immediate effect, on the day of the next timetable increase or perhaps a day afterwards to "see how it goes".

Thanks, makes sense although that policy disadvantages pax who might want to book (a pleasure trip) in advance. Next issue, now we can go "out" again, I notice the last train scheduled from Piccadilly to Bolton is around 2230 and no sign of later trains in the next couple of weeks at least. Will that change back to more-like-normal shortly? I do get that current timetables are, ahem, "fluid"!

 

[higthomas]

Fresh tweet from Network Rail within the last hour; note the use of the word "everyone"... @yorkie - this looks like a welcome shift in the messaging this morning?

Edited to add: Rail Delivery Group has tweeted virtually the same message.



View attachment 80303

An article in today's times (behind a paywall) saying as much: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...ers-to-relax-public-transport-rules-9vh87bcwd

Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.

Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are running empty.

The Times has learnt that the government will monitor use of public transport over the weekend and early next week before possibly abandoning the approach it has maintained since March. Over the past three months commuters have been told to use other forms of transport with buses and trains only used for essential journeys.

Train operators are preparing to increase frequencies from Sunday, with services running at close to 100 per cent of pre-Covid levels on some lines.

Today, the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train operators and Network Rail, was set to introduce a new publicity campaign underlining how passengers can minimise the risk of contracting coronavirus on the network. It will launch a 10-point “safer travel pledge” including 2,500 extra staff at key locations and installing hand sanitiser points at 300 stations.

On June 15, the government made face coverings compulsory on public transport in England, with Scotland following a week later. Yesterday, Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, said that 14 per cent of passengers were not using them and that enforcement of the policy would be stepped up, with the possibility of £100 fines and travel bans.
In the Commons yesterday, Chris Loder, the Conservative MP for West Dorset, asked for a review of the current Covid-19 message to help struggling commercial bus and train operators. He said: “The government’s public messaging to discourage the non-essential use of buses and open-access trains for that matter is deeply damaging those commercial routes that rely on public fares to remain viable.”
Operators have been angered that most services remain practically empty for large parts of the day. By comparison, social distancing is not necessary on aircraft. One senior rail company source said: “The government message needs to change as quickly as possible so more people are encouraged to travel by train, provided you wear a face covering and avoid the peaks.”

 

[higthomas]

And on that note, I'm quite excited about that, as it means I'm going to start using the train again (assuming I can convince my OH that it isn't a bad idea)

 

[route101]

I think Scotrail have dropped the Non Essentail message, its now , can you travel another way?

No advance fares yet.