DfT Consultation on Expanding Pay as you Go

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Bletchleyite

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Except it didn't really. What about those making a day excursion to London from outside the Oyster area and using a Travelcard?
Which can in certain instances be cheaper, e.g. where Network or Family Railcards are involved. Cuffley is a useful "just outside the zones" station for this purpose (as well as being a really nice place, should anyone want to actually go there as distinct from just buying tickets online with it as an origin). I believe there's one on the Chiltern Line which gives similar fares - Denham Golf Club maybe?
 

JonathanH

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Except it didn't really. What about those making a day excursion to London from outside the Oyster area and using a Travelcard?
What about people who don't travel into zone 1? Travelcard keeps a lid on the fares from outer London and beyond into the centre of London for people with railcards but the retention of travelcards doesn't help someone making a short distance journey to outer London.
 

Hadders

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I completely disagree that you have to price PAYG cheaper than paper tickets for it to be successful. PAYG is much more convenient than paper tickets for most journeys where it's a sensible option - that will ensure that most people use it. Most people don't enjoy wasting time queuing up for a paper ticket (and allowing extra time for their journey just in case they have to do so).

Maybe you could respond to the consultation with your concerns?
Generally I'm in favour of PAYG however I have a concern that this will result in significant price increases, especially at weekends. Consider Hertford North.

At weekends a Super Off Peak Travelcard is £14.50. A regular leisure traveller is likely to use a Network Railcard making the cost £9.50
We don't know what the PAYG charges will be yet but it's probably fair to assume they will be the same as Hertford East where an Off Peak Single journey to Liverpool Street is £5.90. A Network Railcard cannot be used with PAYG.

The daily off peak cap from Hertford East to Zones 1-8 is £18.80. Even someone making a return trip to London plus a couple of Zone 1 underground journeys will pay £16.60

That's a hell of an increase for the convenience of PAYG. The solution - carry on using paper tickets. But most people understandably assume PAYG is cheaper, after all that was a big part of the marketing campaign when PAYG was bought in years ago. The very real danger is that people will switch to PAYG, pay more than they need to meanwhile paper tickets will be withdrawn as they will say there's a lack of demand for them.
 

anme

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Generally I'm in favour of PAYG however I have a concern that this will result in significant price increases, especially at weekends. Consider Hertford North.

At weekends a Super Off Peak Travelcard is £14.50. A regular leisure traveller is likely to use a Network Railcard making the cost £9.50
We don't know what the PAYG charges will be yet but it's probably fair to assume they will be the same as Hertford East where an Off Peak Single journey to Liverpool Street is £5.90. A Network Railcard cannot be used with PAYG.

The daily off peak cap from Hertford East to Zones 1-8 is £18.80. Even someone making a return trip to London plus a couple of Zone 1 underground journeys will pay £16.60

That's a hell of an increase for the convenience of PAYG. The solution - carry on using paper tickets. But most people understandably assume PAYG is cheaper, after all that was a big part of the marketing campaign when PAYG was bought in years ago. The very real danger is that people will switch to PAYG, pay more than they need to meanwhile paper tickets will be withdrawn as they will say there's a lack of demand for them.
This seems to be extrapolating quite a lot... But identifying edge cases is also one reason to do a consultation. I suggest you respond to the consultation with your concerns.
 

Hadders

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This seems to be extrapolating quite a lot... But identifying edge cases is also one reason to do a consultation. I suggest you respond to the consultation with your concerns.
Don't worry, I will be responding to the consultation. I doubt it's an edge case either - I strongly suspect the same will be apply all the additional Thameslink/Great Northern stations that they are proposing to add.

As for extrapolating I deliberately chose Hertford North as the PAYG fares are likely to be the same as Hertford East and we already know what they are.

One other thing to look out for is evening peak restrictions. Again using Hertford as an example there isn't a PAYG evening restriction from Hertford East to Liverpool Street but there is to the intermediate stations which seems very strange. Paper tickets from Hertford East to the intermediate have no evening peak restrictions.

As I said earlier I am generally in favour of PAYG but we are in real danger of huge price increases via the back door. The average 'man on the Clapham omnibus' wants PAYG because they believe it is cheaper than paper tickets. For many journeys PAYG is not going to be cheaper.
 

Envy123

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As someone who regularly travels outside of London, PAYG would be welcome but only if it's at most the same cost as paper tickets. There are a few other issues as well:

  • What about PlusBus? I use the buses at St Albans and Hatfield all the time when I go to these places. Currently, a paper ticket with the PlusBus add-on is very cost effective and if PAYG is all too expensive, I would just stick with the usual paper tickets.
  • On Oyster, you can travel beyond the destination of your travelcard, tap out at the destination and be charged an excess fare with no trouble. I'd like to see this with PAYG as a whole, but there may still be the same attitude from RPIs regarding paper tickets.
 

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