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Did anyone ever catch a XC service from Kensington Olympia?

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Sad Sprinter

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In a 1988 timetable I have, the cross-country routes through Kensington seem to be designated as a "proper" route to London. Although it took over two hours to reach Birmingham, compared to the 2 hours from Paddington, compared to the 1 hr 45 (or less) from Euston. I know BR tried to market Kensington and Clapham Junction as stops for long distance trains for those who didn't want to travel across Town, but the routes always seemed incredibly long. Did anyone ever catch a XC from Kensington or Clapham Junction and if so was it any more comfortable than going from a London terminus?
 
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mailbyrail

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I remember once catching one from Watford Junc and being surprised how many made the journey like me to Kensington - can't remember how many were on board when it arrived at Watford Junc
 

Ianno87

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I did Leamington to Kenny O in 2007. Not particularly because it was convenient - just for the novely.

I got a bus from onward to Notting Hill Gate, then the Central Line.
 

JonathanH

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Did anyone ever catch a XC from Kensington or Clapham Junction and if so was it any more comfortable than going from a London terminus?

Yes, but it wasn't 'more comfortable'. I'm not sure what you mean. It was just something different and generally lot less convenient for getting to most places in London unless going to an exhibition as the connecting service at Kensington Olympia wasn't very frequent.

Besides anyone now commenting on journeys they made to Kensington Olympia on Cross Country is now a lot older than they were when they made those journeys.

A direct comparison could be made now about whether it is more comfortable to join a Southern service at Kensington Olympia rather and a London Northwestern Railway service at Euston to travel to Hemel Hempstead or Berkhamsted. It will depend on where you are starting your overall journey. One of the 'comforts' of joining a train at Euston is that it should be there for longer, so you should have longer to join it. One of the 'comforts' of joining at Kensington Olympia is that there should be smaller crowds of people if that affects you.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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The trains via KO were very handy for cross-London trips from Reading on a Travelcard, but you were lucky if you could catch one in both directions on the same day.
Around 1990 I used to be a regular on the Saturday am Reading-East Croydon (Manchester-Brighton) or the Reading-Bromley South (Liverpool-Folkestone via Chatham and Dover).
The Kent train soon became M-F only, and then summer only, while the Brighton was 6 days a week.
It was much the easiest way to reach the Southern system from the west.
At first trains ran up the GW main line to Old Oak Common East Jn to reach the WLL at North Pole Jn, but were rerouted via Acton Wells and West London Jn after the North Pole site was taken over by Eurostar and the direct GWML link dismantled.
At that time there were next to no local services on the WLL, quite different to today.
The WLL was electrified over the period I used the through trains (for Eurostar and class 92 - local trains and new stations were an afterthought).
I used KO itself a few times, but the LUL connections to Earl's Court were sporadic in those days (exhibition days only I think).

The Brighton trains also stopped at Clapham Jn for a while, but this stop was dropped first and then I think Kensington was also dropped before the trains finished going via the WLL.
The very useful Kent train was eventually cut back to Reading and then axed completely.

As for "comfort", they were decent standard BR XC Mk2 stock with a buffet I think, lightly loaded and a pleasure to use. The regular train crews were always very friendly.
The alternative via London terminals might include HSTs to Paddington, but otherwise was a old mish-mash of ancient DMU/EMU until the Networkers turned up (Turbos on the WR).
Plus the noisy and crowded Bakerloo across London.
But in the end, the main line frequency won over a tiny number of rather unreliable through services.
I remember vividly being told at Folkestone Central (waiting for the return Liverpool to appear) that it was "not one of ours" and was "operated by a different company" - in about 1991.
 
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Mag_seven

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Did anyone ever catch a XC from Kensington or Clapham Junction and if so was it any more comfortable than going from a London terminus?

I remember doing one from Gatwick Airport to Reading - made a change from the more direct North Downs unit via Guildford.
 

QJ

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This is the sort of question that has me scuttling off to my database. And it appears I did manage catching cross country trains from Kensington Olympia a couple of times as follows:

07/06/1986 Ashford Chart Leacon Open day
I travelled from Wolverhampton to Kensington Olympia on 1O60 05:20 Wolverhampton to Brighton (87009 to Mitre Bridge Jn - 47564 forward) then 1O27 07:26 Reading to Dover Western Docks to Ashford (Kent) (47435). A quick storm around the Works then back to Kensington on 1M02 10:45 Dover Western Docks to Liverpool. Then off to work.

02/10/1986 Returning from a trip to the Netherlands, Belgium and France.
After disembarking from 99012 at Newhaven Marine I caught 1M34 06:25 Newhaven Harbour to Manchester Piccadilly hauled by 47513 as far as Kenny O for 1O60 05:20 Wolverhampton to Brighton back to Clapham Junction headed by 47626 Atlas. Then off to work.

Not sure I'd manage going off to work after dossing on trains for a week these days. Reasons for going via Kensington Olympia? The convenience of not having to cross London by the Underground, locomotive haulage (even if it was class 47s) and wasting time before going off to work.

I did venture to Kensington Olympia on other occasions (not counting railtours that passed through) but not by cross country. A return leg of an ADEX that visited Plymouth from Tring on 25/02/78 changed locos there from a class 47 to a pair of class 25s. I also had class 25 haulage on a Motorail service from Kenny O on 23/09/81 returning on 25/09. And of course there was the Kenny Belle I caught a couple of times too.IIRC there was only the one through platform open at the time.
 

paul1609

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In a 1988 timetable I have, the cross-country routes through Kensington seem to be designated as a "proper" route to London. Although it took over two hours to reach Birmingham, compared to the 2 hours from Paddington, compared to the 1 hr 45 (or less) from Euston. I know BR tried to market Kensington and Clapham Junction as stops for long distance trains for those who didn't want to travel across Town, but the routes always seemed incredibly long. Did anyone ever catch a XC from Kensington or Clapham Junction and if so was it any more comfortable than going from a London terminus?
Yes, but only going to/from the Brighton Line until 1984 Kensington was a "London Terminal".
 

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As a teenage enthusiast, I remember doing the Kenny O - East Croydon XC on a One Day Travelcard, Zones 1-6. It felt quite exotic. Great 47 thrash for a London kid raised on a diet of EMUs.
 

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The Brighton - Clapham Jn - Kensington - Reading service was really useful travelling with a a toddler. By far the easiest route between Chessington and Reading for visiting relatives. That was in the early 1990's. One day the staff at Clapham Jn were adamant that there were no cross country services. They looked a little upset when I pointed out it was shown to run in the Weekly Special Notices for both South Central and South Western. ( It was my weekend for engineering works service alterations....)

From dealing with engineering works over the WLL from 2007, Southern were pleasantly surprised by the loadings of their services to Watford Jn or Milton Keynes. Probably slower than crossing London but definitely more relaxed!
 

vlad

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I did Birmingham to Kensington Olympia in the last days of Virgin Cross Country, purely to say I'd done it. Yes it took ages but I think it was cheaper than the obvious route into London Euston - and there was the detour from Acton to Willesden and down the West London Line which you didn't get on any other train.

I forget what I did for the few hours I got in London - I remember leaving Olympia on the District Line and wondering why the Underground bothers running a route nobody seemed to travel on....
 

ChiefPlanner

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It was a seriously good idea to be fair , at one time I lived in Wimbledon and worked at Watford -so the option of getting the Brighton - Manchester was there , - but the early departure and the hanging around for a loco change at Mitre Bridge was tedious , especially when Thameslink came in , so I could stroll to a very local station (Haydon's Rd - I lived in the poor bit of SW19)- get a 319 to KX Thameslink , and a short walk to Euston for a fast ,frequent and lightly loaded 317 or similar.

My idea of a 33+TC from Clapham to Watford was not taken up in the early NSE days , - but look what a success they have been since those long ago days. The overall loadings on these Cross London services were (from memory) - very poor.
 

superjohn

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As a teenage enthusiast, I remember doing the Kenny O - East Croydon XC on a One Day Travelcard, Zones 1-6. It felt quite exotic. Great 47 thrash for a London kid raised on a diet of EMUs.
Me too. Whenever I had a travelcard day out in London I made a point of getting at least one trip behind a 47 between East Croydon and Kensington. The afternoon northbound run was my favoured train.

When the Deltic hauled summer trains to Ramsgate were running the platform at Kensington Olympia would be packed each Saturday morning. I suspect the ticket office took more money on those mornings than the whole of the rest of the week.
 

Cowley

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I had a few runs through Kensington Olympia between 1987 and 1991. It was always interesting seeing what came on at Mitre Bridge (a BR blue 47/4 on early mk2s for a BR blue 85 on a Network Southeast day was a good one).
I remember the service being bumped to the fore by a sort of launch day featuring the first Intercity Executive liveried class 47 - 47487 sometime around 1986/87. I can’t remember the significance of that launch now though?
Was that an entirely new intercity service bypassing London, or had something similar run before?
 

Peter Sarf

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Some time before 1988 I did Paddock Wood (or maybe Tonbridge ?) to Birmingham (iirc) we went via Beckenham Junction where I worked !. It was the start of a one week all lines rover. It was Mk1s iirc a nice sunny day but the nice thing was missing out London which really really was relaxing. I don't mind changes of train but actually a slower simple journey is far better.

Drifting off topic but I have often felt that a circuitous journey avoiding engineering works is better than a bus/coach for part of a journey. The railways don't seem to get that. Indeed if I am going to have to change onto a coach for part of the journey I might as well pay for a coach journey ?.
 

181

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I had a few runs through Kensington Olympia between 1987 and 1991. It was always interesting seeing what came on at Mitre Bridge (a BR blue 47/4 on early mk2s for a BR blue 85 on a Network Southeast day was a good one).
I remember the service being bumped to the fore by a sort of launch day featuring the first Intercity Executive liveried class 47 - 47487 sometime around 1986/87. I can’t remember the significance of that launch now though?
Was that an entirely new intercity service bypassing London, or had something similar run before?

I think (I haven't checked) there was a pre-existing service via Reading, and the launch that you remember was of a service that ran via the WCML instead and was therefore rather faster -- I'm not sure a) whether this was as well as or instead of the Reading service, or b) whether the previous service had stopped at Clapham Junction and Kensington. I think all trains reverted to the Reading route after a few years.

In answer to the OP's question, I travelled from Clapham Junction to Manchester in February or March 1987, choosing that route primarily for the novelty value (maybe secondarily for convenience) as part of a day trip involving the Hope Valley line and the MML to St. Pancras, taking advantage of a special offer (something like £8 return if I remember rightly) with my newly purchased Young Person's Railcard (only the second long distance trip I'd made on my own, although the first had been a few years earlier).

(As QJ mentioned in passing, Kensington Olympia's other role as a 'London' station was for Motorail, which my family used most years in the 1970s).
 

Cowley

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I think (I haven't checked) there was a pre-existing service via Reading, and the launch that you remember was of a service that ran via the WCML instead and was therefore rather faster -- I'm not sure a) whether this was as well as or instead of the Reading service, or b) whether the previous service had stopped at Clapham Junction and Kensington. I think all trains reverted to the Reading route after a few years.

In answer to the OP's question, I travelled from Clapham Junction to Manchester in February or March 1987, choosing that route primarily for the novelty value (maybe secondarily for convenience) as part of a day trip involving the Hope Valley line and the MML to St. Pancras, taking advantage of a special offer (something like £8 return if I remember rightly) with my newly purchased Young Person's Railcard (only the second long distance trip I'd made on my own, although the first had been a few years earlier).

(As QJ mentioned in passing, Kensington Olympia's other role as a 'London' station was for Motorail, which my family used most years in the 1970s).
Thanks @181.
I certainly remember that the bulk of my journeys involved going via Reading a few years later (mainly chasing class 47s).
It’s interesting reminiscing...
 

Helvellyn

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I had a few runs through Kensington Olympia between 1987 and 1991. It was always interesting seeing what came on at Mitre Bridge (a BR blue 47/4 on early mk2s for a BR blue 85 on a Network Southeast day was a good one).
I remember the service being bumped to the fore by a sort of launch day featuring the first Intercity Executive liveried class 47 - 47487 sometime around 1986/87. I can’t remember the significance of that launch now though?
Was that an entirely new intercity service bypassing London, or had something similar run before?
I think the original mid-1980s service with loco changes at Mitre bridge was new. Five Mark 2D TSOTs (Standard Open Trolley) were converted to RMBTs (Miniature Buffet) for use in these services.

I never travelled on one but I guess the idea of routing down the WCML on AC power and a loco change at Mitre Bridge was thought a good way of providing direct CrossCountry services into Kent and negating the need for cross-London transfers. But I don't think loads were brilliant hence the later diversion via Oxford and Reading, resulting in longer journey times but probably more markets served.

I suspect the original reason for the KO stop was to try generate some new traffic flows to/from West London rather than provide an alternate London service.
 

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I, too, recall the Manchester to Ramsgate Deltic hauled service. I think it was Saturdays only, though I could be wrong (I certainly only saw it on a Saturday). I went to my local station once or twice to see it pass. "Royal Scots Grey" I think was the favoured loco. I took Mrs Enthusiast once on our way to the shops. It was running twenty minutes late and she was getting increasingly agitated. After it had passed she asked me what all the fuss was! "It's just an ordinary diesel train! I thought we were waiting for something special!" There just no hope for some! ;)
 

30907

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http://www.1s76.com/ for a complete history.
The original service (the only one I ever used, c 1980) was routed via Reading except for the Saturday overnight. I'd forgotten TBH that there was no public stop at Olympia - but then apart from Motorail the BR side was dead passenger wise from 9 to 4.30.
 
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Sad Sprinter

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Thanks for all the responses.

It's a shame these services were so slow. I would imagine if by some magic, a Pendolino toay could run down to CJ, East Croydon or Bromley it would probably be generously loaded. I often make trips from South West London to Blackpool and had I been in the late 80s, the Sussex Scot would be very tempting from Clapham to Preston.

It's a shame Kensington Olympia Underground had such an odd service. I wonder how much effect it had on suppressing demand.
 

Ianno87

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Thanks for all the responses.

It's a shame these services were so slow. I would imagine if by some magic, a Pendolino toay could run down to CJ, East Croydon or Bromley it would probably be generously loaded. I often make trips from South West London to Blackpool and had I been in the late 80s, the Sussex Scot would be very tempting from Clapham to Preston.

It's a shame Kensington Olympia Underground had such an odd service. I wonder how much effect it had on suppressing demand.


I agree - just a shame it cuts through so much other capacity.

I wish there were more general awareness of doing journeys like Gatwick-Thameslink-St Pancras and then walking to Euston as a feasible option. It is attractive compared to a tube journey, and reasonably fast.
 

JonathanH

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I agree - just a shame it cuts through so much other capacity.

I wish there were more general awareness of doing journeys like Gatwick-Thameslink-St Pancras and then walking to Euston as a feasible option. It is attractive compared to a tube journey, and reasonably fast.

It is still quicker to get from the Euston platforms to the Victoria line and get a train from there to Croydon and beyond than to walk to St Pancras and use Thameslink if everything is running properly.

You can be on a train at Victoria fifteen minutes after arriving at Euston. In that time you aren't even at Blackfriars going by St Pancras.

However, I agree that with time on your hands going to St Pancras is better.

Equally changing at Watford Junction for the Southern service via Kensington Olympia isn't as quick as going to Euston either.
 

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It is still quicker to get from the Euston platforms to the Victoria line and get a train from there to Croydon and beyond than to walk to St Pancras and use Thameslink if everything is running properly.

It is, but provided it's not the evening peak going out of London I find the Thameslink or Southern options far more pleasant - I suppose it depends on the definition of "time on your hands" :)
 

Ianno87

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It is still quicker to get from the Euston platforms to the Victoria line and get a train from there to Croydon and beyond than to walk to St Pancras and use Thameslink if everything is running properly.

You can be on a train at Victoria fifteen minutes after arriving at Euston. In that time you aren't even at Blackfriars going by St Pancras.

However, I agree that with time on your hands going to St Pancras is better.

Equally changing at Watford Junction for the Southern service via Kensington Olympia isn't as quick as going to Euston either.
It is, but provided it's not the evening peak going out of London I find the Thameslink or Southern options far more pleasant - I suppose it depends on the definition of "time on your hands" :)


Thameslink is definitely one for the "I dob't like getting on the Tube" brigade. I know tube via Victoria is almost always faster, but the time trade-off for Thameslink isn't all that much.

If more people were aware of the existence of the Thameslink option, the perceived "crossing London" barrier wouldn't be nearly as great.
 

Peter Sarf

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I agree - just a shame it cuts through so much other capacity.

I wish there were more general awareness of doing journeys like Gatwick-Thameslink-St Pancras and then walking to Euston as a feasible option. It is attractive compared to a tube journey, and reasonably fast.

Yes, I prefer to get to the Euston Road from East Croydon be taking the Thameslink. One less change and costs the same as the East Croydon to Victoria leg ("London Terminals")(corrected) iirc.
 
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QJ

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Yes, I prefer to get to the Euston Road from East Croydon be taking the Thameslink. One less change and costs the same as the East Croydon to Victoria leg ("London Terminals") iirc.

Not if you are going to Saint Pancras from south of the Thames. The limit of "London Terminals" is City Thameslink. Easy pickings for revenue protection inspectors.
 

Ianno87

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Not if you are going to Saint Pancras from south of the Thames. The limit of "London Terminals" is City Thameslink. Easy pickings for revenue protection inspectors.

If you're using Oyster from East Croydon, it's the same fare to St Pancras as to Victoria. "London Terminals" doesn't come into it.
 

QJ

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If you're using Oyster from East Croydon, it's the same fare to St Pancras as to Victoria. "London Terminals" doesn't come into it.

That might be so but the post to which I replied specifically mentioned "London terminals". Provide you have enough money on your Oyster card and tap in and out for the journey being undertaken then, as you say, London terminals is irrelevant.
 

Peter Sarf

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Not if you are going to Saint Pancras from south of the Thames. The limit of "London Terminals" is City Thameslink. Easy pickings for revenue protection inspectors.
If you're using Oyster from East Croydon, it's the same fare to St Pancras as to Victoria. "London Terminals" doesn't come into it.

You can tell I am old fashioned. Fair enough "London Terminals" is not what I meant to mean !.
 
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