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Did anyone ever catch a XC service from Kensington Olympia?

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Scouse77

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As a teenage enthusiast, I remember doing the Kenny O - East Croydon XC on a One Day Travelcard, Zones 1-6. It felt quite exotic. Great 47 thrash for a London kid raised on a diet of EMUs.

Likewise. The only bad thing is it would run slow lines most of the way from East Croydon to Clapham Junction.

I used to spend a large part of the summer holidays in the signal box at Kensington Olympia after asking to look around. The amount of porn mags the signalmen had in that box was mind boggling for the 14 year old me.....
 
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WesternLancer

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Thameslink is definitely one for the "I dob't like getting on the Tube" brigade. I know tube via Victoria is almost always faster, but the time trade-off for Thameslink isn't all that much.

If more people were aware of the existence of the Thameslink option, the perceived "crossing London" barrier wouldn't be nearly as great.
not so much any prob with getting the tube per se for me -just that the platforms for Thameslink at St P are so much closer than the platforms for the tube make it so much more convenient. Then if I have any sort of bag above the size of a smaller one it's a boon, then there is a free 1st class upgrade on T-Link (well an upgrade that starts to make the stock equivalent to a vaguely comfortable unit!).

Obv a lot more people might use Thameslink if TfL would admit it exists by showing it on the tube map!
 

Ianno87

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not so much any prob with getting the tube per se for me -just that the platforms for Thameslink at St P are so much closer than the platforms for the tube make it so much more convenient. Then if I have any sort of bag above the size of a smaller one it's a boon, then there is a free 1st class upgrade on T-Link (well an upgrade that starts to make the stock equivalent to a vaguely comfortable unit!).

Obv a lot more people might use Thameslink if TfL would admit it exists by showing it on the tube map!


And if National Rail journey planners admitted that Euston to the Thameslink platforms isn't actually that far...
 

Peter Sarf

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As a teenage enthusiast, I remember doing the Kenny O - East Croydon XC on a One Day Travelcard, Zones 1-6. It felt quite exotic. Great 47 thrash for a London kid raised on a diet of EMUs.

I used to do Kenny O to East Croydon on my way home from work quite often. It was a way of avoiding the tube especially the stressful change at Oxford Circus. I used to work late just to avoid struggling onto the crowded Victoria Line platform just after 17:00 or 18:00. It would have been 1988-1990. The big risk was getting to Kenny O and finding out the Cross Country train was delayed or cancelled. It was a bit of effort getting to Kenny O and a bit of effort getting away again !. The service used to wander down the slow lines from Clapham Junction to Selhurst iirc - but for someone living on the Southern it was the only Locomotive action to be had !..

I worked at the BBC around White City. For the last bit my office looked up at the West London Line. I used to dream of a service + station at somewhere like Shepherds Bush !. Saw the royal train a few times but never 2919.
 

Sad Sprinter

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Am I correct in thinking, at least in the Virgin days, XC trains were routed via Crystal Palace? I remember quite clearly seeing a Voyager come down off the Beckenham Junction like towards Norwood Junction.
 

JonathanH

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Am I correct in thinking, at least in the Virgin days, XC trains were routed via Crystal Palace? I remember quite clearly seeing a Voyager come down off the Beckenham Junction like towards Norwood Junction.

They were cleared to go via both Crystal Palace and Norbury between Clapham Junction and East Croydon.

The northbound trains also went East Croydon - Norwood Junction - West Norwood - Herne Hill - Wandsworth Road - Kensington Olympia in some timetable periods (which is why the replacement provision was Wandsworth Road - Kensington Olympia - Ealing Broadway once the XC service finished).
 

Ianno87

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Am I correct in thinking, at least in the Virgin days, XC trains were routed via Crystal Palace? I remember quite clearly seeing a Voyager come down off the Beckenham Junction like towards Norwood Junction.
They were cleared to go via both Crystal Palace and Norbury between Clapham Junction and East Croydon.

The northbound trains also went East Croydon - Norwood Junction - West Norwood - Herne Hill - Wandsworth Road - Kensington Olympia in some timetable periods (which is why the replacement provision was Wandsworth Road - Kensington Olympia - Ealing Broadway once the XC service finished).

At the end, I know the Saturday mid-morning service was booked via Crystal Palace/Streatham Hill for this purpose.

The Herne Hill route was to cover the track previously covered by the Ramsgate XC service.
 

delt1c

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I, too, recall the Manchester to Ramsgate Deltic hauled service. I think it was Saturdays only, though I could be wrong (I certainly only saw it on a Saturday). I went to my local station once or twice to see it pass. "Royal Scots Grey" I think was the favoured loco. I took Mrs Enthusiast once on our way to the shops. It was running twenty minutes late and she was getting increasingly agitated. After it had passed she asked me what all the fuss was! "It's just an ordinary diesel train! I thought we were waiting for something special!" There just no hope for some! ;)
If I recall correctly RSG was the only deltic used, ocasionaly a 47 would deputise
 

jfollows

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I probably have to say "no", I didn't ever catch one of these services ... I lived round the corner from Kensington Olympia station in summer 1983, and had a job in West Croydon, so it might have been useful. As it was, Olympia was extremely quiet, there was only a M-F am and pm peak shuttle service from Clapham Junction, which I was sometimes able to use, which I recall was booked 33+4TC but sometimes ran with 73+4TC or sometimes even stranger things. I remember occasionally going to Olympia just to watch trains pass, including the cross-country services which didn't call at the time. Having a service to Manchester would have been very nice for me at the time; my parents were abroad but I had the use of their house in Wilmslow which I now own and live in.
 
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Peter Sarf

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I probably have to say "no", I didn't ever catch one of these services ... I lived round the corner from Kensington Olympia station in summer 1983, and had a job in West Croydon, so it might have been useful. As it was, Olympia was extremely quiet, there was only a M-F am and pm peak shuttle service from Clapham Junction, which I was sometimes able to use, which I recall was booked 33+4TC but sometimes ran with 73+4TC or sometimes even stranger things. I remember occasionally going to Olympia just to watch trains pass, including the cross-country services which didn't call at the time. Having a service to Manchester would have been very nice for me at the time; my parents were abroad but I had the use of their house in Wilmslow which I now own and live in.

Oh yes 1988-1990 I think it was still worked by a 33+4TC. But I also remember using a DMU in the mornings. It was meant to depart from Platform 2 at Clapham Junction but sometimes I would see it in the distance sneak through platform 18/19 instead (damn). The DMU came up from Selhurst depot and if it was late and missed its first run from platform 18/19 then its second run was from platform 18/19 instead !. The lack of information and unreliability led me to go via Victoria and the tube unless I was feeling adventurous. The DMU was not a thumper btw - it was one of the fleet used on the Redhill to/from Tonbridge line aiui.
 

Jimini

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I moved from Reading to Croydon in 2002 (I think -- seems like an eternity ago now!). When I'd head back to Reading to visit friends I do recall aiming for these XC services from East Croydon certainly on the way there during the day as you could just sit there the whole way and watch the world going past as the journey progressed. Fairly sure the stop at Kensington Olympia still existed then, but I think it used to run through Clapham Junction non-stop. Nice cheap tickets too :D

The one thing I definitely remember was the guaranteed wait at the junction to join the GWML east of Acton Main Line, and then the crawl along the down relief line until it was possible to move over to the down fast!
 

big all

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Oh yes 1988-1990 I think it was still worked by a 33+4TC. But I also remember using a DMU in the mornings. It was meant to depart from Platform 2 at Clapham Junction but sometimes I would see it in the distance sneak through platform 18/19 instead (damn). The DMU came up from Selhurst depot and if it was late and missed its first run from platform 18/19 then its second run was from platform 18/19 instead !. The lack of information and unreliability led me to go via Victoria and the tube unless I was feeling adventurous. The DMU was not a thumper btw - it was one of the fleet used on the Redhill to/from Tonbridge line aiui.
We worked the morning DMU Kenny Bell from Redhill Depot, sometimes out from Selhurst depot and sometimes out of Clapham yard.

We also worked about two thirds the Cross Country services which went from East Croydon to Reading or Oxford and return; with Reading-based drivers taking the rest.

Over the years the service changed from 10, 11 or 12 vaccum steam heated coaches (including an overninght service from Manchester) to only day time services, with 8 electric heated (ETH) coaches.
 
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D1537

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02/10/1986 Returning from a trip to the Netherlands, Belgium and France.
After disembarking from 99012 at Newhaven Marine I caught 1M34 06:25 Newhaven Harbour to Manchester Piccadilly hauled by 47513 as far as Kenny O for 1O60 05:20 Wolverhampton to Brighton back to Clapham Junction headed by 47626 Atlas. Then off to work.

1M34 SuO Newhaven-Manchester at that time was an interesting train as it was booked a diesel throughout via the WCML. I once picked it up at Kenny O to get the Northampton loop in, which I needed for a 47 at the time. The journey was Kenny O - WCML - Northampton - Rugby - Nuneaton - Birmingham and the loco was 47472.
 

WesternLancer

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We worked the morning DMU Kenny Bell from Redhill Depot, sometimes out from Selhurst depot and sometimes out of Clapham yard.

We also worked about two thirds the Cross Country services which went from East Croydon to Reading or Oxford and return; with Reading-based drivers taking the rest.

Over the years the service changed from 10, 11 or 12 vaccum steam heated coaches (including an overninght service from Manchester) to only day time services, with 8 electric heated (ETH) coaches.
Interesting to read. I seemed to recall that the Kenny Belle was an SR DEMU when I saw it- but it seems this was not the case always?
 

30907

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Interesting to read. I seemed to recall that the Kenny Belle was an SR DEMU when I saw it- but it seems this was not the case always?
The afternoon workings when I knew it 78-80 were TC which then worked out of Waterloo, ISTR on the DML working around 1810 (33+TC+8VEP).
 

Peter Sarf

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We worked the morning DMU Kenny Bell from Redhill Depot, sometimes out from Selhurst depot and sometimes out of Clapham yard.

We also worked about two thirds the Cross Country services which went from East Croydon to Reading or Oxford and return; with Reading-based drivers taking the rest.

Over the years the service changed from 10, 11 or 12 vaccum steam heated coaches (including an overninght service from Manchester) to only day time services, with 8 electric heated (ETH) coaches.

Thanks, interesting. Does that mean from Redhil was the normal job with Selhurst/Clapham being unusual ?.

I did get the impression at the time that the Kenny Belle service used whatever spare stock (diagram wise) was available ?.

Would a Selhurst driver have been able to drive a 33/TC ?. I guess it was down to different divisions to supply stock and crew.

Its why the Kenny Belle service always seemed to be doomed to the chop !. Contrast that with nowadays !.

The overnight service rings a bell - I think someone mentioned it to me once many many years ago. Was it in the era of newspaper or mail trains ?.

I also gathered that there were more services back in the 1970s ?. Your reference to longer steam heated trains triggered that recollection.
 

paul1609

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As a teenage enthusiast, I remember doing the Kenny O - East Croydon XC on a One Day Travelcard, Zones 1-6. It felt quite exotic. Great 47 thrash for a London kid raised on a diet of EMUs.
Unless you were really lucky there wasn't much in the way of thrash on the Southern Region the trains ran slow line to East Croydon invariably following a stopper. They were also looped at Gatwick Airport and Haywards Heath to allow the jam of EMUs that had built up behind them to pass.
 

56 1/2

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I remember vividly being told at Folkestone Central (waiting for the return Liverpool to appear) that it was "not one of ours" and was "operated by a different company" - in about 1991.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly the same words from staff at Bromley South about the same train, for my regular journey in the early 90s Bromley South to Bristol TM it was the only way to go, via KO, and no platform change at Reading. Train was never ram jam crowded and the buffet was just ticking over all the way, unlike leaving Paddington and the hordes all wanting served. We lost something when they were withdrawn.
 

Richard P

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There were in the 90's XC services between Manchester Piccadilly and Gatwick Airport/Brighton and I often used them as an alternative to going on the WCML to Euston as I regularly stayed in a hotel in the Kensington area. They all stopped at KO and it was good to pick up the train there too as it was a lot less crowded than the WCML services that were at that time only every 30 minutes as most people didn't know the trains stopped there
 

Peter Sarf

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.......

But in the end, the main line frequency won over a tiny number of rather unreliable through services.
.......
I remember vividly being told at Folkestone Central (waiting for the return Liverpool to appear) that it was "not one of ours" and was "operated by a different company" - in about 1991.

I think that was the problem with XC via(ish) London services. I wonder if the current Southern service does well outside of the core Wembley to Clapham Junction leg - which is so busy that I have seen it leaving passengers behind in the days of 319s !.

Gosh. In the last five years I was at Harrow and Wealdstone. I definitely felt the LM staff and announcements wanted to deny the existence of the Southern service !.
 

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Olympia was extremely quiet, there was only a M-F am and pm peak shuttle service from Clapham Junction, which I was sometimes able to use, which I recall was booked 33+4TC but sometimes ran with 73+4TC or sometimes even stranger things.
Oh yes 1988-1990 I think it was still worked by a 33+4TC. But I also remember using a DMU in the mornings. It was meant to depart from Platform 2 at Clapham Junction but sometimes I would see it in the distance sneak through platform 18/19 instead (damn). The DMU came up from Selhurst depot and if it was late and missed its first run from platform 18/19 then its second run was from platform 18/19 instead !. The lack of information and unreliability led me to go via Victoria and the tube unless I was feeling adventurous. The DMU was not a thumper btw - it was one of the fleet used on the Redhill to/from Tonbridge line aiui.

Between 1982 and 1989 I quite often used to see one of the morning workings leaving platform 2 at Clapham Junction, or waiting to do so; as far as I can remember, a 33+4TC was normal, or at least the commonest type of train. However there was one occasion in the late 1980s when it left from platform 16 (I'm pretty sure it's 16, not 18) and was formed of the green-liveried preserved Hastings unit.
 

big all

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Thanks, interesting. Does that mean from Redhil was the normal job with Selhurst/Clapham being unusual ?.

I did get the impression at the time that the Kenny Belle service used whatever spare stock (diagram wise) was available ?.

Would a Selhurst driver have been able to drive a 33/TC ?. I guess it was down to different divisions to supply stock and crew.

Its why the Kenny Belle service always seemed to be doomed to the chop !. Contrast that with nowadays !.

The overnight service rings a bell - I think someone mentioned it to me once many many years ago. Was it in the era of newspaper or mail trains ?.

I also gathered that there were more services back in the 1970s ?. Your reference to longer steam heated trains triggered that recollection.
as far as i know the thumper before we worked it in the morning with a dmmu would be a Waterloo driver
i assume they chose a dmmu as fewer and fewer drivers and services on the south western where operated by thumpers [demus] so route and traction knowledge would be diminishing and progressively more expensive especially in the London area.
Tonbridge Redhill and possibly Weymouth where the only southern depots to sign dmmus as far as i know with only Redhill and Tonbridge it later [second wind 1979/80 onward].
the reference to selhurst or Clapham was for the Redhill driver to travel passenger and prepare the unit for service then empty to a Clapham platform to start the service .

because redhill drivers already naturally knew the traction' depots and routes required to run the service there would be no complications with limited traction' depots and routes knowledge to cause problems
 
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