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Diesel Loco Engine Hauled Passenger Trains in Western Europe

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D6130

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Not easiest place to get around with all the mandatory reservations
Don't be put off by the mandatory reservations Richard. Spain is a beautiful country with a fascinating rail network....at least three different gauges! With a little forward planning, it would be a very worthwhile trip once we're able to travel again.
 
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Richard Scott

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Don't be put off by the mandatory reservations Richard. Spain is a beautiful country with a fascinating rail network....at least three different gauges! With a little forward planning, it would be a very worthwhile trip once we're able to travel again.
Ok, only been once so not had much experience of the country. Definitely one I want to do though. Thanks for your input, much appreciated. May ask for more info as and when I decide to go, if that's ok? Probably link in with a trip to Portugal as want to do 1400s again!
 

GNERman

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Germany ordered Talgo trains which will partially run in non electrified lines.
So some sort of Bi-Mode loco?
Planned to have a multi-system electric loco, not a bi-mode i'm afraid.

Presume it'll be dragged by a 218 or 245 off the wires, bit like current IC services.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Ok, thanks. Did see that train but thought it would have been one of the bi-mode high speed trains. Nice to be wrong. Not sure be going out there soon with current restrictions but is one to do. How long these expected to last? Any other routes with diesel traction in Spain, is Cartagena still diesel?
Electrification of the first part of the Algeciras line, from Antequera as far as Ronda, has been announced.
So that will become the traction change point in the future.
The Seville-Bobadilla regional line (currently DMUs) will also be electrified.
Around Murcia, the HSL from Madrid/Alicante has just reached Orihuela just short of Murcia, so HS electric sets are used on this route, while diesels remain on other routes including Cartagena.
 
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D6130

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Electrification of the first part of the Algeciras line, as far as Ronda, has been announced.
So that will become the traction change point at some point in the future.
The Seville-Bobadilla regional line (currently DMUs) is also being electrified.
Very interesting. I wonder whether provision will be made for dual gauge track at the same time? Between Bobadilla and Ronda the line serves a very sparsely-populated rural area, but Ronda itself - as well as being a major tourist destination in its own right - has expanded exponentially in recent years with the constuction of vast new housing estates on its periphery.
 

Austriantrain

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Can the bi-mode high speed trains change gauge?

The Class 730 can and regularly do between Madrid and Galicia, for a long time in Zamora; now in Puebla de Sanabria. They have been (or might still be) used on cross-Madrid services changing gauge at Chamartin and Atocha.

I don’t know if they are used to Algeciras, though.
 

Scouse77

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Yes the Class 334 and Talgo sets run Cartagena/Murcia to Valencia/Zaragoza/Cuidad Real (vía Alicante) as well as Murcia to Madrid Media Distencia services.

I live close to San Gabriel station where the services reverse to access Alicante Terminal station following the closure of the old Benalua terminus in the 70s. The services also reverse again at Alicante Terminal where, depending on the destination, electric locos can take the rake onwards.

The link from the San Gabriel to Alicante passes in a tunnel not far from where I live and you can always tell when a 334 hauled service passed under as you can feel and hear the difference.

The 334s really go like the proverbial off a shovel too, really impressive machines.

Currently the direct Iberian gauge line from Murcia to Albacete/Madrid is closed for works for a couple of months so we're getting freight diverted from the route going through overnight at 115 and 215. They cleared all the undergrowth from the disused tracks (still in situ after more than 40 years of disuse) from San Gabriel to the old Benalua terminus as they planned to reverse and run around the freight there but in the end they've managed to come to an agreement with the port to allow the run around to occur within the port area instead.

Whatever is hauling them is very noisy on the climb from San Gabriel to the route northwards (they use an avoiding curve to avoid the need to reverse again in Alicante). I can't get out to see them as we're under curfew from 2200 each evening. I get an unlit glimpse of them as they exit the tunnel but can't see them clearly enough to identify.
 

158722

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Ok, only been once so not had much experience of the country. Definitely one I want to do though. Thanks for your input, much appreciated. May ask for more info as and when I decide to go, if that's ok? Probably link in with a trip to Portugal as want to do 1400s again!
Here in Portugal, four from the five daily services between Porto and Pocinho, along the Douro valley are booked for class 1400s, as mentioned. Only the 1525 ex-Porto and last one back off Pocinho in the evening are units, with even this turn meant to go over to 1400s soon. There are currently five 1400s for the three diagrams, 1408, 1424, 1436, 1438, 1455, but the full pool is meant to be eight locos for five diagrams. 1408 is temporarily in the pool in place of 1415, whilst 1413 is also on emergency train duty and will return to Porto sometime soon. 1429 & 1461 are both under overhaul at Barreiro and will join the Porto fleet - 1461 is almost ready, 1429 might be June/July.

As an aside, the class French styled 2600/2620 electrics are due to start work on Porto to Valença Inter-Regional trains next month. Initially, just a couple of diagrams, but eventually they will cover all services, using ex-RENFE Arco coaches. Both of these lines will make Porto a rather nice hub for loco hauled workings, diesel and electric.
 

Richard Scott

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Here in Portugal, four from the five daily services between Porto and Pocinho, along the Douro valley are booked for class 1400s, as mentioned. Only the 1525 ex-Porto and last one back off Pocinho in the evening are units, with even this turn meant to go over to 1400s soon. There are currently five 1400s for the three diagrams, 1408, 1424, 1436, 1438, 1455, but the full pool is meant to be eight locos for five diagrams. 1408 is temporarily in the pool in place of 1415, whilst 1413 is also on emergency train duty and will return to Porto sometime soon. 1429 & 1461 are both under overhaul at Barreiro and will join the Porto fleet - 1461 is almost ready, 1429 might be June/July.

As an aside, the class French styled 2600/2620 electrics are due to start work on Porto to Valença Inter-Regional trains next month. Initially, just a couple of diagrams, but eventually they will cover all services, using ex-RENFE Arco coaches. Both of these lines will make Porto a rather nice hub for loco hauled workings, diesel and electric.
Thanks for that, really helpful. Appreciate it.
 

rf_ioliver

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I think now in Finland there's the night train to Kolari which would change locomotive in Oulu to a Dr16. Maybe Seinäjoki to Vaasa if not a Dm12 railcar then a Dr12 hauling two or three old blue coaches - though checking for today and coming weeks this seems to be a single Dm12 railcar.

From https://juliadata.fi

Train PYO272 Kolari-Helsinki the consists are below. KLI-OL (Kolari to Oulu) Dr16 hauled (diesel) then it changes to the old Soviet built Sr1 at Oulu (even though the line from Kemi is electrified, the depot is at Oulu).

De, Expt, Rx etc are the wagon types, the number is the number of that wagon, Dr16/Sr1 etc is the locomotive and thefinal number is the length. Some of the different wagon types can be found here: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_VR:n_kalustosta or via vaunut.org. Today's night train contains 7 double deck car wagons for example

Junan kokoonpano​

  • KLI-OL: Dr16 + De + Expt + Rx + EFs + 3 Edm + 4 CEmt + 4 Gfot + 3 Gd (508 m)
  • OL-TPE: Sr1 + Expt + Rx + EFs + 3 Edm + 4 CEmt + 4 Gfot + 3 Gd (483 m)
  • TPE-PSLT: Sr1 + Expt + Rx + EFs + 3 Edm + 4 CEmt + 4 Gfot + Gd (420 m)
  • PSLT-HKI: Sr1 + Expt + Rx + EFs + 3 Edm + 4 CEmt (283 m)
 

jamesontheroad

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I think now in Finland there's the night train to Kolari which would change locomotive in Oulu to a Dr16. Maybe Seinäjoki to Vaasa if not a Dm12 railcar then a Dr12 hauling two or three old blue coaches - though checking for today and coming weeks this seems to be a single Dm12 railcar.

Oulu - Kolari is indeed diesel hauled. Seinäjoki - Vaasa was electrified about nine years ago. My first taste of train travel in Finland was a VR IC from Vaasa to Tampere a few years ago.

87B45599-96B3-4F51-9017-917B3B3D4B48_1_105_c.jpeg
 

rf_ioliver

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Oulu - Kolari is indeed diesel hauled. Seinäjoki - Vaasa was electrified about nine years ago. My first taste of train travel in Finland was a VR IC from Vaasa to Tampere a few years ago.
Did I write Seinäjoki-Vaasa? Apologies Seinäjoki-Jyväskylä I meant, but these are all Dm12 now. I think the last diesel hauled trains I did in Finland were the Rovaniemi sleeper and Hanko-Karjaa.

Interesting aside: Seinjäjoki-Vaasa was the part of an interesting piece of rail politics. That line was not going to be electrified so a generator wagon was being used, which was to be taken from the Rovaniemi-Kemijoki night train which resulted in that being cancelled. There was a lot of protest and then from somewhere money was found to electrify both lines....
 

jamesontheroad

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Interesting aside: Seinjäjoki-Vaasa was the part of an interesting piece of rail politics. That line was not going to be electrified so a generator wagon was being used, which was to be taken from the Rovaniemi-Kemijoki night train which resulted in that being cancelled. There was a lot of protest and then from somewhere money was found to electrify both lines....

Fascinating. I had to check Google Streetview to see if I was misremembering - and in fact the current imagery (at the date of this post) shows the tracks into Vaasa crossing Huutoniementie some time in summer 2011, when the pylons had been erected but not the wires.

It is my naive hope that one day the existing rail tracks the last few km to the port of both Holmsund (Umeå) and Vaasa might be used for passenger service, to connect with the Umeå-Vaasa ferry. Unfortunately that's very unlikely, but one can dream.
 

HS2isgood

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I had look for these, are they currently not running or do they run under IR banner? Looking at DB site this is all that came up?
Only the evening runs are functioning now. They are all Intercity now, one of the few loco-hauled services.

Atm, the whole of Spanish loco-hauled services is:
- Madrid-Algeciras IC (electric to Antequera, then diesel)
- Madrid-Almería IC (electric to Linares)
- Some Mediterranean IC's
- Miranda-Bilbao and Vitoria-Irún shuttles
 

Iskra

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As well as the aforementioned Reggio Calabria - Taranto two coach inter-cities, Italy has diesel loco-hauled (push-pull) regional trains on the following lines (but not all trains):

Padova/Treviso - Montebelluna

Torino - Cuneo -Breil sur Roya (France) - Ventimiglia

Firenze SMN - Borgo San Lorenzo (via Pontassieve)

Firenze SMN - Empoli - Siena

Siena - Grosseto

Siena - Chiusi C T (one train each way on weekdays only)

There are also still a few diesel loco-hauled trains in France - mainly overnight services:

Paris - Briancon (between Valence and Briancon)

Paris - Rodez (between Brive and Rodez)

Daytime sevices between Bourges and Montlucon were also diesel-hauled until quite recently, but may now have gone over to bi-mode units.
The sleeper that crosses the straits of Messina is also shunted on and off the ferry using a diesel locomotive at each side, although that is getting pretty niche :D
 

Richard Scott

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Only the evening runs are functioning now. They are all Intercity now, one of the few loco-hauled services.

Atm, the whole of Spanish loco-hauled services is:
- Madrid-Algeciras IC (electric to Antequera, then diesel)
- Madrid-Almería IC (electric to Linares)
- Some Mediterranean IC's
- Miranda-Bilbao and Vitoria-Irún shuttles
Thanks for info, really useful.
 

D6130

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The sleeper that crosses the straits of Messina is also shunted on and off the ferry using a diesel locomotive at each side, although that is getting pretty niche :D
Yes indeed.....two different centre-cab D145.2000s in each direction - one onto the ferry and one off again, using old withdrawn UIC-X carriages as reach wagons to avoid the loco having to stand on the linkspan. Curiously, the locos used for ferry shunting at Villa San Giovanni on the mainland side are allocated to Messina depot in Sicily, rather than Reggio Calabria, so they have to go over on the ferry for maintenance and exams. However fuelling and light servicing are undertaken on the mainland.
 

Richard Scott

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Yes indeed.....two different centre-cab D145.2000s in each direction - one onto the ferry and one off again, using old withdrawn UIC-X carriages as reach wagons to avoid the loco having to stand on the linkspan. Curiously, the locos used for ferry shunting at Villa San Giovanni on the mainland side are allocated to Messina depot in Sicily, rather than Reggio Calabria, so they have to go over on the ferry for maintenance and exams. However fuelling and light servicing are undertaken on the mainland.
Have seen one come off the ferry, having come from mainland, was used to drag the train off without the barrier coach.
 

rf_ioliver

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Fascinating. I had to check Google Streetview to see if I was misremembering - and in fact the current imagery (at the date of this post) shows the tracks into Vaasa crossing Huutoniementie some time in summer 2011, when the pylons had been erected but not the wires.

It is my naive hope that one day the existing rail tracks the last few km to the port of both Holmsund (Umeå) and Vaasa might be used for passenger service, to connect with the Umeå-Vaasa ferry. Unfortunately that's very unlikely, but one can dream.
Vaasa-Seinäjoki is electrified. Vaasa to Vaskiluoto (the harbour) is not and doesn't see any traffic.
 

Scouse77

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Incorrect. See my post further back up the page

Only the evening runs are functioning now. They are all Intercity now, one of the few loco-hauled services.

Atm, the whole of Spanish loco-hauled services is:
- Madrid-Algeciras IC (electric to Antequera, then diesel)
- Madrid-Almería IC (electric to Linares)
- Some Mediterranean IC's
- Miranda-Bilbao and Vitoria-Irún shuttles
Incorrect. See my post further back up the page
 

Dumpton Park

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Double headed 334s are common on the route from Caceres/Merida/Badajoz to Madrid. It's just one talgo set per service as a rule, so hardly taxing, but two locos seems routine. Perhaps an insurance thing on a very long single line with loops.

DP
 

HS2isgood

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Yes the Class 334 and Talgo sets run Cartagena/Murcia to Valencia/Zaragoza/Cuidad Real (vía Alicante) as well as Murcia to Madrid Media Distencia services.

I live close to San Gabriel station where the services reverse to access Alicante Terminal station following the closure of the old Benalua terminus in the 70s. The services also reverse again at Alicante Terminal where, depending on the destination, electric locos can take the rake onwards.

The link from the San Gabriel to Alicante passes in a tunnel not far from where I live and you can always tell when a 334 hauled service passed under as you can feel and hear the difference.

The 334s really go like the proverbial off a shovel too, really impressive machines.

Currently the direct Iberian gauge line from Murcia to Albacete/Madrid is closed for works for a couple of months so we're getting freight diverted from the route going through overnight at 115 and 215. They cleared all the undergrowth from the disused tracks (still in situ after more than 40 years of disuse) from San Gabriel to the old Benalua terminus as they planned to reverse and run around the freight there but in the end they've managed to come to an agreement with the port to allow the run around to occur within the port area instead.

Whatever is hauling them is very noisy on the climb from San Gabriel to the route northwards (they use an avoiding curve to avoid the need to reverse again in Alicante). I can't get out to see them as we're under curfew from 2200 each evening. I get an unlit glimpse of them as they exit the tunnel but can't see them clearly enough to identify.

Incorrect. See my post further back up the page


Incorrect. See my post further back up the page
No, there are no Media Distancia loco-hauled services anymore. The only MD services through Benalúa/Sant Gabriel are the València-Murcia/Cartagena DMUs (599, 3 cars long), which run twice a day (in the full timetables there's a third run and one runs through from València to Zaragoza via Teruel, but atm it's just one to Murcia and another to Cartagena). From Alacant-Terminal you have the 449 EMU's to Ciudad Real (3 a day, only 2 running atm), and 470 (1 a day plus a Fri/Sun extra) to València, apart from the already mentioned Murcia services.

The only passenger loco-hauled trains through Alacant are the Barcelona-Lorca/Cartagena ICs, even if idk if they're running now, or cancelled due to the Sants (Barcelona) station refurbishment.


Double headed 334s are common on the route from Caceres/Merida/Badajoz to Madrid. It's just one talgo set per service as a rule, so hardly taxing, but two locos seems routine. Perhaps an insurance thing on a very long single line with loops.

DP
This is a political decision after the local press complained that they often broke down, and yeah, it's single-track from Humanes (15-20 miles from Madrid) all the way to Badajoz.
Sorry to ask but to clarify is the Algeciras line loco hauled or is it bi-mode unit?
It depends, the IC towards Madrid (2 a day, only one running currently) is always a Talgo VI+diesel locomotive, running semi-fast and into the high-speed line from Antequera. The MD (stopping) service to Antequera is a DMU. It's 3 tpd (2 in the reduced timetable)
 
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stan68

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As well as the aforementioned Reggio Calabria - Taranto two coach inter-cities, Italy has diesel loco-hauled (push-pull) regional trains on the following lines (but not all trains):

Padova/Treviso - Montebelluna

Torino - Cuneo -Breil sur Roya (France) - Ventimiglia

Firenze SMN - Borgo San Lorenzo (via Pontassieve)

Firenze SMN - Empoli - Siena

Siena - Grosseto

Siena - Chiusi C T (one train each way on weekdays only)

There are also still a few diesel loco-hauled trains in France - mainly overnight services:

Paris - Briancon (between Valence and Briancon)

Paris - Rodez (between Brive and Rodez)

Daytime sevices between Bourges and Montlucon were also diesel-hauled until quite recently, but may now have gone over to bi-mode units.
The Siena-Grosseto line has not seen loco-hauled services in a regular timetable since 2014, when the service was cut back. The loco-hauled services on the line were stopped with the withdrawal of most direct trains between Florence and Grosseto via Siena. Those services were cut back to Siena and the Siena-Grosseto portions were replaced by railcars and multiple units, operated by the Minuetto Diesels (ALn 501/502), ALn 668s and ALn 663s. From time to time ATR 220tr Pesa Atribo 'Swing' units make an appearance. Sadly, new 'Blues' trains based on the Hitachi Rock but with bi-mode capabilities will be replacing the wonderful D445s on the Siena-Empoli-Florence service. Heritage D445s are often used on the Asciano-Monte Antico line as 'treni storici' (historic trains) pulling Centoporte coaches.
 
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Scouse77

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No, there are no Media Distancia loco-hauled services anymore. The only MD services through Benalúa/Sant Gabriel are the València-Murcia/Cartagena DMUs (599, 3 cars long), which run twice a day (in the full timetables there's a third run and one runs through from València to Zaragoza via Teruel, but atm it's just one to Murcia and another to Cartagena). From Alacant-Terminal you have the 449 EMU's to Ciudad Real (3 a day, only 2 running atm), and 470 (1 a day plus a Fri/Sun extra) to València, apart from the already mentioned Murcia services.

The only passenger loco-hauled trains through Alacant are the Barcelona-Lorca/Cartagena ICs, even if idk if they're running now, or cancelled due to the Sants (Barcelona) station refurbishment.



This is a political decision after the local press complained that they often broke down, and yeah, it's single-track from Humanes (15-20 miles from Madrid) all the way to Badajoz.

It depends, the IC towards Madrid (2 a day, only one running currently) is always a Talgo VI+diesel locomotive, running semi-fast and into the high-speed line from Antequera. The MD (stopping) service to Antequera is a DMU. It's 3 tpd (2 in the reduced timetable)
There are 100% loco hauled MD services through San Gabriel. I live right next to the tunnel entrance in San Gabby. In fact there are more loco hauled services than 599 operated services throughout the day. The operate a combination of Cuidad Real/Zaragoza/Barcelona/Valencia to Cartegena/Murcia services.

See attached photosIMG_20190707_230156954.jpgIMG_20210413_175417742.jpg
 

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Giugiaro

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Portugal is still using 1400s, think Porto may be the area in which they run.


For this summer the service has also been reinforced with extra English Electric services.

What about the night train between Irun and Lisbon ? It was diesel hauled for the whole spanish part of the trip when I used it but that was many years ago. Is it wholly under wires now ?

As it stands now, both the Sud Express and the Lusitania could be considered "long gone".
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Wiring-wise, Irun/Madrid via Medina del Campo to Salamanca is wired, then a gap until they resume at Vilar Formoso for the run through Portugal.
 
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