Different delay repay rules.

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elementalpat

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Thankfully I have not needed to do one of these (yet!).

However, just having a quick look around (did not check every TOC), it seems TOC have free rein to set whatever rules they want.

Poor FGW customers seem to have a raw deal in that any outside factors and it's tough luck no refund! From the outside, it just looks like FGW is try to boost profits.

Most other TOCs seem to willing to give out something irrespective of what caused the delay.

Is Delay Repay set solely by the TOC? It just seems consistency should be the key.
 
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michael769

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Should a TOC reimburse when its not their fault. Me thinks not
When Network Rail are at fault they have to pay a TOC compensation. Surely it is not unreasonable to expect tat some of tat is passed to affected passengers.
 

Clip

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When Network Rail are at fault they have to pay a TOC compensation. Surely it is not unreasonable to expect tat some of tat is passed to affected passengers.
Ahh but when a TOC is at fault they then have to pay NR. Im sure its just an ivisible pot of money that works its way around the railway.
 

starrymarkb

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Thankfully I have not needed to do one of these (yet!).

However, just having a quick look around (did not check every TOC), it seems TOC have free rein to set whatever rules they want.

Poor FGW customers seem to have a raw deal in that any outside factors and it's tough luck no refund! From the outside, it just looks like FGW is try to boost profits.

Most other TOCs seem to willing to give out something irrespective of what caused the delay.

Is Delay Repay set solely by the TOC? It just seems consistency should be the key.
FGW used to be one of the more generous schemes under the Passenger Charter scheme** (which they still operate under), Delay Replay is something that has been added to franchises renewed in the last few years. The Greater Western Franchise gets renewed next year so expect the tougher Delay Repay to apply to whoever wins that.

FGW will refund for things within the control of the railway as a whole, so NR/other TOC problems are included, but things like suicide and weather are not included.


*IIRC Delay of 1 hour was a full refund of a Single and 50% of a Return, over 2 hours was a full refund regardless of ticket type. Virgin XC for comparison was 50% of a Single, 25% of a return for a one hour delay and 50% of a return for over 2 hours
 

DaveNewcastle

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Depending on your point of view of economic systems, you might want to compare Delay Repay with monetarism or sleight of hand.

. . .Im sure its just an ivisible pot of money that works its way around the railway.
No money changes hands.

When a passenger buys a ticket, they pay. And the TOC incurs some obligations, most of which are met by running a train with crew on board and at stations.

When a TOC compensates with 'Delay Repay', they issue Rail Travel Vouchers (RTVs). The passenger's money is not refunded but retained by the Company or Companies to which it was distributed.

When the passenger exchanges RTVs for another ticket, the TOC (or another TOC) again incurs some obligations, most of which are met by running another train with crew on board and at stations.

It's hard to see find any significant cost to a TOC in awarding 'Delay Repay' to passengers (other than the administrative time, materials and disbursements), but their passengers may feel the benefit of cheap or free travel.
 

michael769

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It's hard to see find any significant cost to a TOC in awarding 'Delay Repay' to passengers (other than the administrative time, materials and disbursements), but their passengers may feel the benefit of cheap or free travel.
Is the cost not the loss of fare for the follow up journey? I recognise that some of those journeys are ones that would not be made if the passenger did not have the vouchers, and that will reduce the real cost, but many of those journeys will be ones that would otherwise have been paid for.
 

DaveNewcastle

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To a great extent, yes, you are right, although the point I was trying to make is that no money moves anywhere (which in some economic models would disregard its value altogether).

I say to a great extent because there are factors which erode even that loss of future revenue and which do not apply to money or other credits:
As you suggest, the journey may be frivolous;
On-line discounts are not available;
No change will be given for a higher value RTV than the ticket for the future journey;
The value of an RTV has a limited life and then becomes valueless;
The RTV must be carried and presented to be used, in contrast to money which may be stored in a bank and accessed by a Payment Card;
The RTV may be used for travel on another Operator's train (and therefore another operator's loss of future revenue).

Whether intentional or not, these small factors all contribute to a reduction in effective value to the passenger and consequently, a reduction in the percieved loss of future revenue to the Operator(s).
 
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michael769

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Indeed with all voucher based systems such erosion of value is the norm.

I suspect, though the biggest notional saving for the ToC arises due to the relatively low numbers of affected passengers who apply for repay.
 

dvboy

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Delay Repay is great for compensating delayed long distance journeys, but useless for the commuter on an 11tph line delayed by a small duration but more often.
 

maniacmartin

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Delay Repay should be credited back to your payment card, not issued in RTVs. The rail industry is the only industry I know where you can be contracted to and fail to deliver a service and not refund the customer. Time is of the essence when it comes to making journeys, so a voucher for another journey in 2 weeks+ time could be of little use to the occasional rail traveller.
 

starrymarkb

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Delay Repay should be credited back to your payment card, not issued in RTVs. The rail industry is the only industry I know where you can be contracted to and fail to deliver a service and not refund the customer. Time is of the essence when it comes to making journeys, so a voucher for another journey in 2 weeks+ time could be of little use to the occasional rail traveller.
I believe the contract is to get you from A to B which the company will fulfil. (There isn't a stipulation that it would be on time in the contract). Delay Repay is compensation rather then a refund so can be in whichever form the company chooses. I believe that if you decide not to travel due to a cancelled train you can get a refund without the usual admin fee
 

yorkie

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The NRCoC sets minimum standards across all Companies, however most Companies go beyond those standards, many significantly so. Delay Repay is far more generous.

FGW do not currently offer a Delay Repay scheme. Franchises awarded after a certain date generally have Delay Repay as a franchise commitment.

Delay Repay should be credited back to your payment card, not issued in RTVs. The rail industry is the only industry I know where you can be contracted to and fail to deliver a service and not refund the customer. Time is of the essence when it comes to making journeys, so a voucher for another journey in 2 weeks+ time could be of little use to the occasional rail traveller.
If the TOC does not deliver the service (eg the train is cancelled) the passenger is entitled to a full refund. That is different to delay compensation.

If a delay occurs on a taxi, the taxi company will charge the customer. However if a delay occurs on a train, the rail company may compensate the customer. Also even the minimum NRCoC standards (which most Companies exceed) are far more generous than airlines!

I know the different modes are not directly comparable but when a passenger has a modal choice to make, the possibility of being delayed and what happens if you are, could be a factor in making that choice.
 

All Line Rover

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Delay Repay should be credited back to your payment card, not issued in RTVs. The rail industry is the only industry I know where you can be contracted to and fail to deliver a service and not refund the customer. Time is of the essence when it comes to making journeys, so a voucher for another journey in 2 weeks+ time could be of little use to the occasional rail traveller.
The rail industry is the only industry I know of where you can travel from London to Inverness, be delayed by just 60 minutes, and receive a full refund on the value of your ticket, albiet in a form of currency that is not legal tender. Compare that to buses (most buses) or airlines, for example.

The suggestion that Delay Repay should be issued as legal tender is laughable. The current scheme is already extraordinarily generous.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thankfully I have not needed to do one of these (yet!).

However, just having a quick look around (did not check every TOC), it seems TOC have free rein to set whatever rules they want.

Poor FGW customers seem to have a raw deal in that any outside factors and it's tough luck no refund! From the outside, it just looks like FGW is try to boost profits.

Most other TOCs seem to willing to give out something irrespective of what caused the delay.

Is Delay Repay set solely by the TOC? It just seems consistency should be the key.
At present all Delay Repay schemes offer identical amounts of compensation. Franchises that have not been renewed since Delay Repay was introduced offer different, lower amounts of compensation. When these franchises are renewed (e.g. Virgin/First West Coast), their compensation scheme will switch to Delay Repay.
 
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maniacmartin

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The rail industry is the only industry I know of where you can travel from London to Inverness, be delayed by just 60 minutes, and receive a full refund on the value of your ticket
I think that London to Inverness is not an example of a typical journey. On the other extreme, a journey of a single stop on (for example) (former) First Great
Western services, delayed by 59 minutes isn't eligible for anything.

I would say the current scheme is laughable. A customer cannot choose not to travel on a ticket if he is only made aware of a delay at an intermediate station having commenced his journey.

If a delay occurs on a taxi, the taxi company will charge the customer. However if a delay occurs on a train, the rail company may compensate the customer. Also even the minimum NRCoC standards (which most Companies exceed) are far more generous than airlines!

I know the different modes are not directly comparable but when a passenger has a modal choice to make, the possibility of being delayed and what happens if you are, could be a factor in making that choice.
I don't think taxis is a fair comparison. Congestion the roads is something beyond the taxi firm's control, and taxis never offer a firm timetable (although I do concede that buses do). The railways are a closed system which are not subject to other traffic that wasn't previously known about (except for cable theft, fatalities etc), so you should be able to expect there to be tighter tolerance on being late.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Well when I travelled Virgin from Preston to London one time the train broke down at Hartford but heroed onto Stafford. (Like they do.)
My delay was less than an hour in the end but my refund was the cost of the full journey at the time from Stafford to London. Is this normal?
 

bignosemac

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The Greater Western ITT says this for the next franchise:

4.7.8.1 Delay Repay / Passenger’s Charter

Bidders will be required to produce a Passenger’s Charter including a Delay Repay compensation scheme based on delays to journeys. The Delay Repay compensation scheme should apply to all ticket types from daily tickets through to annual season ticket holders irrespective of what caused the delay.

The value of compensation should be calculated on an equitable basis for all, with an entitlement to claim compensation of 50% of the fare for the affected journey for passengers delayed by between 30 and 59 minutes, 100% of the fare for the affected journey for delays of 60-119 minutes and 100% of the return fare for delays of 120 minutes or more. For season tickets, compensation would be calculated using the proportional daily cost of the ticket. Compensation would be provided in National Rail Travel Vouchers with cash instead if vouchers were not accepted. Claims would be "postage-paid".
My emphasis in bold.

Similar lines about cash if vouchers aren't accepted are in the ICWC and Essex Thameside franchise Invitations to Tender. The same was in the South Central tender which Southern Railway won.

So not a piece of good customer service from Southern to exchange RTVs for cash on request. It's something they are obliged to do under their franchise terms.
 
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