Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

[O L Leigh]

Its class 755s between Cambridge and Stansted most of which are an extension of the Norwich services. These are worked by West Anglia based drivers (Cambridge definitely but maybe Stortford too) but Norwich drivers are not permitted south of Cambridge.

My apologies. I'm getting my 745s and 755s mixed up. All three WA depots will be signing 745s for the StanEx service while only Cambridge (and maybe Bishops Stortford) will be getting 755s too.

I suspect that the Stortford drivers won't be signing the 755s, as the previous CAM-SSD service was operating solely by Cambridge drivers.

They all look good to me. There is however an ex-Anglia Railways depot at Liverpool St who operate 321/745 traction to Colchester Town, Harwich and Norwich.

This is where there may be some confusion, as I believe that there are effectively two depots at Liverpool Street. There's the ex-Anglia depot referred to above and the WA depot.

Another subsector which I had more than a little involvement in, whilst not resorting to such tactics, did have drivers working to such a variety of distant destinations that they acquired the alliterative sobriquet the '----- Seagulls' as an un-complimentary description of apparently going ('seen') everywhere.

"Go anywhere, steal anything, sh*t on everyone", I believe the saying went.

I think it's implausible that the drivers at these depots could remember every signal, goods loop and recess siding on several hundred miles of line, but what level of knowledge is required to legitimately 'sign' a route? (and I am aware of the practices alleged in some parts of the industry, but I did use the L word).

I'd say that @Tomnick pretty much has it. A route includes all lines, loops and connections unless these are listed as separate routes. For example, Nuneaton station is covered by two separate route codes that differentiate between the Trent Valley lines and the flyover to the island platforms 6 and 7. To be passed competent to sign the route you should be expected to know all the ways through from A to B. That said, there's a difference between a driver saying that "you always go through the middle road" (or wherever) and one who refuses to take part of a route that they actually sign.

It can sometimes happen, often due to insufficient communication. I can remember getting caught up in a bit of a hullabaloo at Stratford because a Cambridge driver refused to bring his train up the Temple Mills line into Platform 11, which is a route he did sign. However, he was aware that he didn't sign beyond P11 and that there was a fixed red at his back that would prevent him going back, so he insisted that he get routed into P12. The problem was that I was meant to do a unit swap and bring him a fresh unit that I would leave on P12 for him to work back, but I don't think they told him that. So I had to wait an additional three hours while that unit did another round trip and came back up with a more amenable driver.

 

[Tomnick]

I’ve formed the impression there are three links at Derby:

- intercity only
- mixed local and intercity
- local only
(+ depot driver link who sign Etches Park only).

Might be wrong of course - could you confirm?

Don’t quote me on it...

Local link: Crewe, Matlock and Sheffield - London
“Lincoln” link: London - Sheffield plus Nottingham - Lincoln
“Leeds” link: London - Leeds

The links are referred to by colour iirc rather than any geographical reference. No idea how diversions fit into that either. Shed drivers sign the station as well as Etches Park, and certainly used to go out as far as St Marys although I guess there’s no need for that since the remodelling.

 

[Tomnick]

That said, there's a difference between a driver saying that "you always go through the middle road" (or wherever) and one who refuses to take part of a route that they actually sign.

I've heard numerous stories of homeward-bound freight drivers being signalled into a loop, but instead of taking it, phoning the signalman and stating that they don't sign the loop, presumably smugly expecting a run straight home instead. The easy answer is to drop them down to the next signal on the main, and put the following train past them through the loop instead

You're right though, it's common for drivers to "always" be run through a particular route, but it doesn't mean that they'd have any problems if they were put somewhere else. I remember being asked briefly about a reception siding when I was being passed out, with my manager then commenting "don't worry though, you'll never go in there". Naturally it wasn't very many months before I was asked to go through there, although to be fair I'm pretty sure that it remains the most obscure place that I've taken a passenger train!

 

[O L Leigh]

Ah yes. Never say never. I think I've done all the things I've been told that I'd never do. Even now I can cause surprise amongst my colleagues by mentioning some of the shunt moves I've been asked to do.

 

[387star]

Southern Barnham link dependant but all sign 313s and 377s. Routes are :

Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton
Bognor branch
Littlehampton Branch
Victoria via Hove and Horsham
London Bridge low level
Southampton (link 1 only)

 

[J-P_L]

TPE

York - 24 hour depot
Traction: 185, 802 and 68/MK5*

Routes:
- Newcastle to York (King Edwards Bridge)
- Redcar Central to York (via Yarm)
- Scarborough to York
- York to Manchester Victoria (via Micklefield, Dewsbury, Stalybridge and Ashton under Lyne)
- Manchester Victoria to Manchester Airport (via Ordsall Chord)
- Manchester Victoria to Liverpool (via Chat Moss)
- Stalybridge to Manchester Piccadilly (via Guide Bridge)

Diversions:
- Newcastle (High Level Bridge)
- Thirsk to Yarm (via Boroughbridge, avoiding Northallerton)
- Northallerton to Thornaby (via Dinsdale, avoiding Yarm)
- York to Leeds via Castleford
- Leeds to Huddersfield via Normanton/Wakefield Kirkgate
- Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria via Calder Valley
- Manchester Victoria to Manchester Piccadilly via Salford Crescent (avoiding Ordsall Chord)

Depots:
York (Siemens) - 185 & 68*
Doncaster Carr - 802

*Training for 68/MK5 currently suspended due to Covid-19. No 68/MK5 work currently allocated to York. Separate links for 68/802.

 

[387star]

Southern Horsham
Traction 377
Routes:
Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour /Bognor via Horsham
Victoria to Horsham via Dorking
London Bridge low level

Might be others

 

[Wilko5816]

Great Northern / Thameslink

Hornsey
(Innerlink)
Kings Cross to Baldock via Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North
Finsbury Park to Moorgate
Finsbury Park to Cannonbury turnback
Letchworth yard
Hertford and Welwyn Sidings
Hornsey Depot
Hitchin Up yard
Sign only 717’s

(Outerlink)
Kings Cross to Cambridge via Welwyn Garden City
Diversion via Hertford loop
(Training to start soon for Finsbury Park to Three Bridges via London Bridge)
Hornsey Depot
Letchworth sidings
Welwyn sidings
Signs 700, 387 and 365

Cambridge depot
(Brighton Link)
Cambridge to Kings Lynn
Cambridge to Kings cross
Cambridge to Brighton via Finsbury Park, London Bridge and Three Bridges
Diversions,
Hertford Loop
Elephant and castle, Tules hill, and selhurst
London Bridge via Peckham and Dulwich
Cambridge Yard
Letchworth sidings
Hornsey Depot
Welwyn Sidings
Sign 700, 387

(Maidstone Link)
Cambridge to Kings Lynn,
Cambridge to Kings Cross
Diversion via Hertford Loop
Cambridge Yard
Letchworth sidings
Hornsey Depot
(training to start for Maidstone at some point)
Sign 700, 387

 

[StaffsPM1]

DO Moor Street Chiltern sign to Kidderminster? I was under the impression that only Stourbridge do hence their existance. The diagrams I have for Stourbridge seem to cover all the booked workings that go beyond Brum?

 

[craigybagel]

Thanks again everyone for all the useful additions and corrections!

WMR Snow Hill sign 172s only and sign Snow Hill to Great Malvern, Snow Hill to Stratford via Whitlocks End and Dorridge. Also sign Snow Hill to Leamington Spa

Correction to Leamington Spa
They sign Leamington to Stratford via Hatton south junction. Also sign Snow Hill to Stratford via Dorridge

There is a Conductor only depot for WMR at Stourbridge Junction that sign the same as Snow Hill with the addition of 170s and 153s.


Will you be adding in freight depots too?

Thanks for your additions. At the moment I'm not planning on doing freight depots - from my limited knowledge of the freight side at most depots things get very complicated in terms of who signs what, and I don't have any info myself to even know where to start. If someone else feels brave enough then great, but that person isn't me!

I do hope to do guards at some point, probably in a seperate thread.

From another thread and by another poster ofc
In addition to the above
Stranraer sign 156 and Stranraer - Glasgow via Kilmarnock
Dumfries sign 156 and Carlisle - Glasgow via Kilmarnock (also East Kilbride I believe)
Also (sorry I keep getting bits wrong)
London Overground
New Cross Gate
378
Clapham Junction/West Croydon/Crystal Palace/Battersea Park/New Cross to Highbury & Islington
New Cross Gate depot and Silwood sidings.
Chingford
315/710
Liverpool Street to Chingford/Enfield Town/Cheshunt (only via Southbury)
Via South Tottenham
Ilford depot (I think up to Chadwell Heath as well)
As for the other 4 they all sign Richmond/Clapham Junction to Stratford. Euston, Watford and I think the higher links at Willesden sign Euston - Watford. I think it's only Willesden and possibly Stratford that sign Gospel Oak - Barking, although they all sign 710s (again, except possibly Stratford, which is v. small).
Hull Trains
802
Hull - Beverley
Hull - Kings Cross via pretty much every diversion you can think of (Goole, Sleaford, Cambridge, Hertford and others)
They did sign Crofton depot and various diversions thereabouts but not sure now
Bounds Green/Ferme Park depots
Grand Central
Bradford & Sunderland
180
Both sign York - Kings Cross via similar diversions to Hull Trains
Sunderland sign Heaton depot - York via Sunderland and Durham, via Stillington & Dinsdale too
Bradford sign Crofton depot, and Bradford - Doncaster by just about any route you can think of.
Northern
Skipton
150/153/158/331/333
Skipton/Leeds/Bradford FS/Ilkley triangle
Skipton Broughton Road CS
Link 2B do Skipton - Lancaster - Morecambe
Link 2A do Skipton - Carlisle
Link 1 do both

Thanks for that, thats another good chunk of useful data! I've had to do a slight bit of editing based on things I'd learnt from other threads with regards to link structure at Queen Street, and also an anomaly with Stirling (they can't sign Anniesland and only 385s, you need to sign DMUs to go there), which I'm hoping is correct! Are you sure that Bradford GC sign York? That seems a little out of the way for even the most obscure of diversionary routes.

I think that might have been a crossed wire. Northampton is simply treated as the "slow lines" at Avanti IIRC so all drivers who sign to London (everyone apart from Edinburgh and Polmadie) sign it. I think the same is true of the West Midlands and via Alsager as well.

I think what further compounds the issue is there is a local instruction for Avanti drivers not to stop and question a wrong routing if they're signalled via Northampton when booked via Weedon or Vice Versa - they're instructed to just get on with it.

Re Exeter HSS. They sign 143 I think, but not 158 or 16x. They also do sign 2+4 HSTs.

Thanks

DO Moor Street Chiltern sign to Kidderminster? I was under the impression that only Stourbridge do hence their existance. The diagrams I have for Stourbridge seem to cover all the booked workings that go beyond Brum?

I've heard from a few different sources that Moor Street do indeed go to Kidderminster. Given the small size of Stourbridge depot and the close proximity of Moor Street it would be handy for cross depot working I suspect? I'll leave it in until I hear otherwise.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Are you sure that Bradford GC sign York? That seems a little out of the way for even the most obscure of diversionary routes.

I've read they sign as far as that for cross cover (if Sunderland is short they can work to York and relieved by Bradford, if Bradford is short v.v. with Doncaster) but I'm not certain

 

[computerSaysNo]

Very interesting to read about all the different routes and traction that the various depots sign.

Can I suggest marking each TOC on the list as a spoiler, so the user can just click on the TOC they want to view? Otherwise it's an extremely long list to look through, especially if you're looking for a particular depot with a high-lettered TOC (eg. ScotRail).

(You do this by typing "[SPOILER=ScotRail]" immediately before the beginning of each TOC (without the speech marks, and obviously replace ScotRail with whichever TOC you're listing), and "[/SPOILER]" immediately after the end.)
Eg.
[SPOILER=ScotRail]
Inverness:
Data
More data
[/SPOILER]

becomes

Spoiler: ScotRail

Inverness
Data
More data

 

[387star]

Southern Brighton
Traction: 377, 313, 387
Routes that I know of :

Brighton-Vic
London Bridge low level
Brighton-Ore
Seaford Branch
Lewes to Vic
Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour
Littlehampton Branch
Bognor Branch (?)
Southampton (link 1 only)

Southern Eastbourne
377 313. 171 link 1 only
Routes:

Brighton to Ore
Seaford Branch
Lewes to Victoria
London Bridge low level
Ore to Ashford link 1 only

 

[peakNed]

Thanks again everyone for all the useful additions and corrections!



Thanks for your additions. At the moment I'm not planning on doing freight depots - from my limited knowledge of the freight side at most depots things get very complicated in terms of who signs what, and I don't have any info myself to even know where to start. If someone else feels brave enough then great, but that person isn't me!

You’re not far wrong!
With regards to freight (at DB at least), each depot has core routes where regular booked work goes, but the waters get somewhat muddied with drivers retaining older knowledge from previous flows, also drivers retaining route knowledge from previous companies (such as myself). Works well for ballast jobs though.

 

[train_lover]

You’re not far wrong!
With regards to freight (at DB at least), each depot has core routes where regular booked work goes, but the waters get somewhat muddied with drivers retaining older knowledge from previous flows, also drivers retaining route knowledge from previous companies (such as myself). Works well for ballast jobs though.

Yes it's the same story at my FOC. Would it be worth doing one with just core routes? If we did individual route cards then we'd never be able to finish the list!

 

[Bow Fell]

Lime Street
Lime Street - Manchester Airport/Victoria via Chat Moss/CLC (including via Golborne Junction to Wigan)
Lime Street - Blackpool North (including via Ince Moss)
Lime Street - Crewe via Runcorn
Earlestown - Chester
Helsby - Ellesmere Port
Warrington BQ - Wigan NW

Lime St Drivers also have a Refresh diagram - Manchester Victoria-Stalybridge. This was so they retain 156 traction knowledge (no other booked work).



Wigan Wallgate

Wigan-Southport/Kirkby
Wigan-Manchester Vic/Stalybridge (via Bolton/Atherton)
Wigan-Manchester Airport (via Bolton/Atherton/Chat Moss)
Wigan-Liverpool via St Helens Central
Wigan-Liverpool via Earlestown (Golborne Jn)
Wigan-Blackpool North
Preston-Bolton (via Chorley)
Preston-Lancaster-Barrow
Lancaster-Morecambe
Springs Branch Depot
Newton Heath Depot

Guards Only (as above and)

Manchester Victoria-Blackburn via Todmorden

Manchester Piccadilly-Stockport.

Traction 142, 150, 156, 158, 195, 319, 331 (Possibly still some 153 traction knowledge)

Blackburn

Blackburn-Colne/Clitheroe
Blackburn-Blackpool South
Preston-Ormskirk
Blackburn-Manchester Victoria via Todmorden and Via Darwen
King Street Depot

Guards Only;

As above and

Manchester Victoria-Wigan-Southport (via Atherton).

Traction 142, 150, 153, 156, 158

Buxton

Buxton-Manchester Picc
Manchester Picc-Blackpool North (via Bolton & Chorley and via Wigan + WCML to Preston)
Manchester Piccadilly-Alderley Edge
Manchester Piccadilly-Manchester Airport
Wigan Wallgate

Traction;

150, 156, 319, 331.

 

[TheGoldfish]

I haven’t managed to spot it in the tread so far ... but was anyone able fill in the blanks for GWR Paddington by any chance ?

 

[godfreycomplex]

I haven’t managed to spot it in the tread so far ... but was anyone able fill in the blanks for GWR Paddington by any chance ?

Can’t find the post in another thread but if memory serves it said
HEX
332/387
Paddington - T5
Old Oak depot
West Ealing sidings
(I don’t know it it’ll get merged into the GWR link at some point)
GWR
165/166/387/800/802
Paddington - Oxford
Reading - Bedwyn
West Ealing - Greenford
Slough - Windsor
Didcot - Bristol (via Box and Parkway, link 1 only)
North Pole depot
West Ealing sidings
Reading TCD
HSS
08/57/800/802
Paddington - Swansea plus diversions via Gloucester and I think the Vale of Glamorgan
Paddington - Exeter plus diversions (including all ways through Bristol)
Gloucester - Cheltenham
North Pole Depot
Reading TCD

 

[306024]

From memory Greater Anglia GE electric depots:

Ilford
Traction:
08 and 315 (depot link), 317, 321, 360, 720 (in future)
Routes:
Liverpool St to Ipswich
Stratford to Orient Way
Shenfield to Southend Victoria
Wickford to Southminster
Witham to Braintree
Colchester to Colchester Town
Manningtree to Harwich Town

Southend Victoria
Traction:
321, 720 (in future)
Routes:
Liverpool St to Braintree
Stratford to Orient Way
Shenfield to Southend Victoria
Wickford to Southminster

Colchester
Add 720 traction in future
Add Stratford to Orient Way route

Clacton
Traction:
321, 360, 720 (in future)
Routes:
Liverpool St to Ipswich
Stratford to Orient Way
Witham to Braintree
Colchester to Clacton-on-Sea direct and via Colchester Town
Thorpe-le-Soken to Walton-on-Naze
Manningtree to Harwich Town

 

[387star]

Peterborough is a funny one as it's more a TL depot now yet they wear GN uniform

Strange seeing GN uniform at Brighton bit of a mess really

 

[Skoodle]

London Overground:

New Cross Gate Depot: 378
Highbury & Islington to:
New Cross
Crystal Palace
West Croydon
Clapham Junction
Battersea Park

Night Link: Kensington Olympia to New Cross Gate CSD via Longhedge Junction - 10 car unit swaps.

 

[craigybagel]

Once again, thanks to everyone for all of the additions and corrections, I think I've got them all up to date as of now.

Just to clarify one point that I fear I might have caused confusion with - whilst I stated previously I'm not including individual depots, I am bending that slightly in including long routes that only exist for ECS moves, or where maintenance depots are a long way from the rest of the routes on a route card - which is why to use one example, I've included the route from the Bombardier depot at Barton under Needwood to Birmingham for Avanti Wolverhampton depot, but I've not mentioned Oxley depot which is also signed by the drivers based there.

I am of course always open to suggestions or debate on whether or not this is the best course of action!

I've read they sign as far as that for cross cover (if Sunderland is short they can work to York and relieved by Bradford, if Bradford is short v.v. with Doncaster) but I'm not certain

Interesting, I guess there's a certain logic in that! I'll add it in so.

Very interesting to read about all the different routes and traction that the various depots sign.

Can I suggest marking each TOC on the list as a spoiler, so the user can just click on the TOC they want to view? Otherwise it's an extremely long list to look through, especially if you're looking for a particular depot with a high-lettered TOC (eg. ScotRail).

(You do this by typing "[SPOILER=ScotRail]" immediately before the beginning of each TOC (without the speech marks, and obviously replace ScotRail with whichever TOC you're listing), and "[/SPOILER]" immediately after the end.)
Eg.
[SPOILER=ScotRail]
Inverness:
Data
More data
[/SPOILER]

becomes

Spoiler: ScotRail

Inverness
Data
More data

Thanks, that's a great suggestion - I've inputted that now and it looks so much tidier!

You’re not far wrong!
With regards to freight (at DB at least), each depot has core routes where regular booked work goes, but the waters get somewhat muddied with drivers retaining older knowledge from previous flows, also drivers retaining route knowledge from previous companies (such as myself). Works well for ballast jobs though.

Yes it's the same story at my FOC. Would it be worth doing one with just core routes? If we did individual route cards then we'd never be able to finish the list!

I'm happy to do put them in so long as the depots actually have clearly defined core routes. Easy enough for the likes of Freightliner Intermodal but might be more challenging with other FOCs, especially when you throw in DBC's hub system!

 

[vikingdriver]

SWR
Bournemouth
444/450. Some 442 as well
Weymouth - Waterloo via Basingstoke and Haslemere.
Bournemouth CSD
Poole sidings
Weymouth sidings
One link does Brockenhurst - Lymington Pier. Not sure which one
Northam
444/450
Waterloo - Poole via Basingstoke and Haslemere
Eastleigh - Fareham
Northam CSD
Poole sidings
Possibly Eastleigh sidings
Fratton
444/450. Some 442
Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo via Haslemere and Basingstoke
Fareham to Southampton via Netley
Fratton CSD
Eastleigh sidings
Link 2 add Southampton - Poole sidings and Guildford - Surbiton via Cobham
Link 1 add Southampton - Salisbury via Redbridge, 158 and 159
Salisbury
158/159
Waterloo - Exeter St Davids via Andover and Southampton Central
Romsey - Eastleigh via Chandler’s Ford
Salisbury - Bristol TM (including Malago Vale)
Westbury - Yeovil Junction via Castle Cary
Salisbury sidings/depot
Exeter New Yard
Basingstoke
444/450
Waterloo - Southampton Central via Surbiton and Feltham (including Hounslow loop and Weybridge bay)
Eastleigh - Portsmouth Harbour
Pirbright Junction - Alton
Barton Mill depot and Basingstoke sidings
Link 1 add 158/159 and Reading - Salisbury

Where is/was Malago Vale? The internet suggests between Bedminster and Parson Street? Salisbury can shunt to Bedminster, no further.

Malago Vale Carriage Sidings, Bristol

Just wondering if anyone has a plan of the former carriage sidings at Malago Vale? Doesn't need to be to scale as long as it shows all the roads and approach lines. Thinking of the post-steam diesel-hydraulic period, so 1965-1975 in particular. My edition of Quail doesn't show these sidings at al...

www.rmweb.co.uk

 

[tiptoptaff]

For clarity, the only GWR driver depot to sign the Vale of Glamorgan (VoG) line diversion is Swansea

 

[godfreycomplex]

Where is/was Malago Vale? The internet suggests between Bedminster and Parson Street? Salisbury can shunt to Bedminster, no further.

Malago Vale Carriage Sidings, Bristol

Just wondering if anyone has a plan of the former carriage sidings at Malago Vale? Doesn't need to be to scale as long as it shows all the roads and approach lines. Thinking of the post-steam diesel-hydraulic period, so 1965-1975 in particular. My edition of Quail doesn't show these sidings at al...

www.rmweb.co.uk

Apologies, I thought it was opposite Bedminster station but it’s further down

 

[387star]

Southern Barnham link dependant but all sign 313s and 377s. Routes are :

Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton
Bognor branch
Littlehampton Branch
Victoria via Hove and Horsham
London Bridge low level
Southampton (link 1 only)

 

[DoubleO]

Bradford GC:

Bradford Interchange (NOT Forster Sq as shown) to KGX via Halifax and Pontefract Monkhill

BDI to Leeds
Leeds to Wakefield Kirkgate via Normanton
Leeds to Wakefield Kirkgate via Wakefield Westgate
Wakefield Kirkgate to Doncaster via Hare Park
York to Doncaster ECML
Hertford Loop
Doncaster to Peterborough via Lincoln (not all drivers sign)
Lincoln to Newark (not all drivers sign)
Doncaster to Robert's Road (not all drivers sign)
Greetland Jn to Hebden Bridge
Dryclough Jn to Milner Royd Jn

Think that covers it.....

 

[class ep-09]

Can’t find the post in another thread but if memory serves it said
HEX
332/387
Paddington - T5
Old Oak depot
West Ealing sidings
(I don’t know it it’ll get merged into the GWR link at some point)
GWR
165/166/387/800/802
Paddington - Oxford
Reading - Bedwyn
West Ealing - Greenford
Slough - Windsor
Didcot - Bristol (via Box and Parkway, link 1 only)
North Pole depot
West Ealing sidings
Reading TCD
HSS
08/57/800/802
Paddington - Swansea plus diversions via Gloucester and I think the Vale of Glamorgan
Paddington - Exeter plus diversions (including all ways through Bristol)
Gloucester - Cheltenham
North Pole Depot
Reading TCD

Paddington HSS also sign Didcot to Oxford.

Some GWR Paddington ( ex LTV link 1) drivers, should still sign Oxford to Worcester Foregate Street, but since the lock down, they stopped coming that far as all work on Oxford - Hereford corridor, is covered now by GWR drivers from Oxford and HSS Worcester .

 

[trentside]

Boston:

Nottingham - Skegness
Nottingham - Lincoln
Lincoln - Grimsby Town
Lincoln - Doncaster

EMR Boston drivers do not sign Doncaster anymore, they haven’t for a few years now. It’s only signed by Lincoln drivers and guards these days. They do sign Grimsby and Newark North Gate and have booked work there on a Saturday only. The guards based at Boston don’t sign Grimsby but some now sign North Gate but don’t have booked work. Boston crew also sign Lincoln to Sleaford, drivers only have booked work in one direction with a refresher day built in to their link to refresh it towards Lincoln.

 

[Efini92]

Firstly, thanks to O L Leigh for the explanation of my XC query.

On a point of principle, I've been puzzled for a long time...
Clearly, when the route knowledge of an LM driver is specific about platforms at Shrewsbury one might expect it to be track specific and therefore quite detailed. In BR Railfreight/TLF days the smaller sub-sectors required route knowledge over long stretches of route; for the biggest subsector, coal, there was a sufficient level of traffic to have drivers contained within comparatively small areas without sacrificing efficiency (and a lot of electricity coal was short distance flows as well), but, for the smaller subsectors there may have only been one train a day to each terminal, and those journeys may have been of some distance. It followed that the drivers in these subsectors signed for routes that, though limited in number, involved long distances. I should mention that the aim was to reduce the number of traincrew depots to the absolute minimum - a manager of one subsector, perhaps best not detailed, told the LDC at one particular depot to get very flexible (i.e. sign for all the routes through to terminals) or he'd close the depot and find one that would. The result was that depot then worked radially to distant terminals and was virtually the only depot the sub-sector used. Another subsector which I had more than a little involvement in, whilst not resorting to such tactics, did have drivers working to such a variety of distant destinations that they acquired the alliterative sobriquet the '----- Seagulls' as an un-complimentary description of apparently going ('seen') everywhere.
I think it's implausible that the drivers at these depots could remember every signal, goods loop and recess siding on several hundred miles of line, but what level of knowledge is required to legitimately 'sign' a route? (and I am aware of the practices alleged in some parts of the industry, but I did use the L word).

I imagine Saltey was to the midlands what Newton Heath was to the north west. Secondmen from all over the country came to get booked for driving. This then created a web of massive route knowledge across most of the country.