Directly Operated Railways

[Zoe]

The decision as to whether railways are a commercial enterprise or not was taken long ago.

That was at a time though when the private car was seen as the primary form of transport. Times are changing.

 

[Tiny Tim]

That was at a time though when the private car was seen as the primary form of transport. Times are changing.

It's a popular pastime on this forum to point to the government's lack of investment in the railways. But that's not to say that there hasn't been any investment. We may not have the best railway network to face the future with, but the decisions made by our (democratically elected) governments say that it's the best we can afford. It's easy to forget how much money BR was hemorrhaging when Beeching swung his axe, we're lucky to have what there is. And HS2 isn't a bad plan for the future.

Until very recently nobody would have predicted a decline in car usage, and it's by no means certain to happen; but at least we're considering the possibility.

 

[D1009]

I reckon the railways should never have been nationalised, or perhaps privatised in around 1956, restoring the Big 4. They have been used as a political football ever since. However, we're stuck with it.

Were it not for the state the country was in following the war, they probably wouldn't have been, but yes we're stuck with it.

 

[Eagle]

Were it not for the state the country was in following the war, they probably wouldn't have been, but yes we're stuck with it.

Were it not for the state the country was in following the war, there probably wouldn't have been an NHS either. Just saying :P

 

[DaveNewcastle]

That was at a time though when the private car was seen as the primary form of transport. Times are changing.

I expect that is true.
But I can't imagine anyone dare quantify the rate of decline nor the date when the decline begins (by whatever measure). Perhaps more to the point for anyone attempting to estimate future demands, we have no way of assessing whether a shift away from road travel might be accompanied by a corresponding shift away from rail travel, or would drive the demand for rail travel upwards! (and whether those trends apply equally to commuting and to long-distance travel).

We have no predictive tools - just an assumption about the future cost of petrol. Or have we?

 

[LE Greys]

Accounting for infrastructure and operations would still have to be separate though due to the EU directive. The GWR operations department would for example have to pay the GWR infrastructure department a track access charge and also allow others to access their track under Open Access.

I worry about the sanity of anybody who came up with that idea or ever let it become policy. There is no reason why Open Access (or Running Powers to give it its pre-nationalisation name) can't be made to work under a vertically-integrated system.

 

[John55]

I expect that is true.
But I can't imagine anyone dare quantify the rate of decline nor the date when the decline begins (by whatever measure). Perhaps more to the point for anyone attempting to estimate future demands, we have no way of assessing whether a shift away from road travel might be accompanied by a corresponding shift away from rail travel, or would drive the demand for rail travel upwards! (and whether those trends apply equally to commuting and to long-distance travel).

We have no predictive tools - just an assumption about the future cost of petrol. Or have we?

Well according to the DfT road statistics road traffic has been in decline since 2007 and is currently no higher than in 2002. Between 2007 (peak) and 2010 total traffic is down by 3.5%. Of course we are in some form of recession but rail passenger traffic hasn't dropped but some freight has.

 

[island]

Very true! How many TOCs are either owned, part owned or closely affiliated with a state owned Railway? I have the list as:

ATW, AXC, Chiltern, EC, TPE (though Keolis which is effectively SNCF), GA, GC, LM (Govia which is part owned by Keolis), LO, Merseyrail, Northern, Southern, Southeastern. Assuming I've got everyone that would mean that of the 22 TOCs 13 of them are some how affiliated with a foreign sate owned railway (or in the case of DOR our own government).

Could make an argument for Northern Ireland Railways too!

 

[Zoe]

I worry about the sanity of anybody who came up with that idea or ever let it become policy.

It creates a level playig field. An Open Access company would pay GWR Infrastructure exactly the same charge that GWR Operations woud pay GWR Infrastructure. If this was not required then the GWR would have an unfair advantage as they could set high track access charges for other companies.

 

[LE Greys]

It creates a level playig field. An Open Access company would pay GWR Infrastructure exactly the same charge that GWR Operations woud pay GWR Infrastructure. If this was not required then the GWR would have an unfair advantage as they could set high track access charges for other companies.

Is that really important? If the railway system has enough integral competition, as it used to in Devon where there were two routes to Plymouth, then there is sufficient choice without the need to complicate matters. Companies like the North Staffs (a short line with massive running powers over the LNWR and Midland) or the Somerset and Dorset (a line where the LMS and LSWR were effectively the TOCs) were both successful and served their local areas perfectly well.

Besides, since a railway is limited by block signalling, the biggest problem is not track access charges (which can be recouped by fares) it is finding a path in the first place. A single company is best-placed to find the right balance of traffic. An access charge system does not necessarily take into effect the costs (fuel and track maintenance), derived costs (rolling stock aquisition and maintenance plus the fact that running one coal train removes six express passenger paths and vice versa) or the benefits (revenue from each individual train). It's simply too complicated to work out without full access to the company accounts. The result is simply so inflexible that it cannot adapt either to changes in traffic patterns or to long-term development. No wonder costs are so high.

 

[AlanFry1]

If the government is prepared to spend far more money into the rail than they get on tolls for a long time, then they can invest hugely into the railway even with high fares