Disabled Person's Railcard - can rail staff ask about the disability?

[bnm]

This was an actual short conversation I had at Charing Cross after my ticket failed to worked the barrier.

Gateline Assistant: "Could I see your Railcard as well Sir?" (a perfectly acceptable request)
Me: "Certainly. Here you go."
Gateline Assistant: (examines card, and as he opens the barrier, says...) "You don't look disabled."
Me: "You don't look like a doctor."

Off I walk.

 

[reb0118]

I might check the name against their payment card, or question their holding of the railcard if it said Mr X and it was a woman travelling alone who handed it to me.

And they are entirely appropriate checks. Exactly the same as you may do with a Network Railcard.

Honestly mate, they really aren't entirely appropriate checks if you mean asking someone what their disability is.

Think again?

 

[Greenback]

There are better ways to ask the question, if it needs asking, I don't think that is in dispute.

Good. So hopefully no one else will attempt to defend or justify the actions of that guard.

And they are entirely appropriate checks. Exactly the same as you may do with a Network Railcard.

Honestly mate they really aren't entirely appropriate checks if you mean asking someone what their disability is.

I think cjmillsnun was referring to the second line in Tracky's quoted post, and not the questions that the guard aske din relation to a disability.

 

[gordonthemoron]

as bnm suggests, the correct response to the guard is to question their experience as a doctor

 

[les.]

I don't consider myself to be disabled at all but I do hold a disabled persons railcard which has saved me a fortune over the past few years as I do use the rail network fairly regularly.

The reason that I initially qualified for one was that I was diagnosed with a brain tumour in 2008 and after my operation I had a seizure and was put on anti-epilepsy meds and have a medical exemption certificate. My driving licence was also revoked by the DVLA for a year.

I was advised that this would make me eligible for a DPR so applied for one. I now have my driving licence back and I understand that the rules on anti-epilepsy meds (even though I have never been diagnosed with epilepsy, I take them to stop any further seizures) have changed and that if I applied today then I wouldn't qualify BUT once you have a DPR, you keep it for as long as you renew it.

I have never been asked about my "disability" but I must say that I am surprised that it does not carry a photograph, as it could be open to misuse.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Honestly mate they really aren't entirely appropriate checks if you mean asking someone what their disability is.

I was referring to the quote, where he said he would check the name against the payment card. IE ask for ID

 

[TUC]

Guard: What's your disability?
Pax: I'm Epileptic
Guard: Let's move you over here away from everyone else in case you start fitting

Or

*Bing Bong*
Welcome aboard this 12.08 service to London. We'd like to apologise for the delay to your service this morning and for the gentleman in carriage #4 - but don't worry he's disabled



Or did you have a different scenario in mind?

Reminds me of the episode of The Brittas Empire where Brittas is trying to sort out rotas during a staff meeting and, in full view of the other staff, says

'Now David. you'll understand that I can't put you on pool duty. Too much of a risk of cross-infection, with your condition'

David: 'What are you talking about? There's nothing wrong with me.'

Brittas: You don't need to be shy about it with us David. You're amongst friends. Its just to protect you and customers.'

David: 'I tell you, you've got the wrong person.'

Brittas (after checking his notes): 'Oh yes. You're right. I do apologise.... Is Stephen Jones here?'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was advised that this would make me eligible for a DPR so applied for one. I now have my driving licence back and I understand that the rules on anti-epilepsy meds (even though I have never been diagnosed with epilepsy, I take them to stop any further seizures) have changed and that if I applied today then I wouldn't qualify BUT once you have a DPR, you keep it for as long as you renew it.

I am surprised that the conditions for a DPR are not more explicit about the need for you to continue to satisfy the conditions for eligibility but this is at least implicit in condition 15
'When you renew your Railcard we may ask you for current evidence of your entitlement to it'.

 

[les.]

I am surprised that the conditions for a DPR are not more explicit about the need for you to continue to satisfy the conditions for eligibility but this is at least implicit in condition 15
'When you renew your Railcard we may ask you for current evidence of your entitlement to it'.

I was under the impression that once you had a disabled railcard you were able to keep it as long as you renewed it which is obviously not correct, BUT I have just re-checked the eligibility conditions and I do still qualify for one as I hold a medical exemption certificate and I have to take anti-epilepsy tablets phenytoin (which is one of the drugs listed that qualify you for one) on an ongoing basis.

 

[SussexMan]

I was under the impression that once you had a disabled railcard you were able to keep it as long as you renewed it which is obviously not correct, BUT I have just re-checked the eligibility conditions and I do still qualify for one as I hold a medical exemption certificate and I have to take anti-epilepsy tablets phenytoin (which is one of the drugs listed that qualify you for one) on an ongoing basis.

That in itself does not make you eligible. You have to have "repeated attacks even though you recieve drug treatment". See link here.

 

[34D]

I can't actually believe you have actually just said that.

You can't just rock up at a railway station with a fake limp and get a Disabled Person's Railcard. You have to provide evidence, from a medical professional or the Department for Work and Pensions, that you are actually disabled and in receipt of a relevant benefit. Disabled Persons Railcards are not issued at railway stations, ATOC have a specific office dealing with these applications.

If the guard believes that the Railcard has been tampered with, or is not being used by the registered owner, then he should have asked for ID. It is none of his business what the holder's disability is, especially as being disabled is not the sole requirement for holding a Disabled Person's Railcard.

Do you have any idea how big the industry is around fraudulent blue parking badges, fraudulent disabled ENCTS passes, and yes, fraudulent disabled railcards?

I was made aware this afternoon that evidence is being gathered by Metro and West Yorkshire Police against a 'home manufacturer' located in west yorks. I hope this results in a successful prosecution.

 

[thenorthern]

I have a disabled railcard for a non-physical disability and I had to send some documentation off to Laurenskirk to get it so they are not easy to get.

The railways are good and I have never had a funny look for using my railcard but in non-railway places I have had funny looks when I have tried to say I have a disability and people don't believe me.

 

[Merseysider]

I have witnessed a car with a blue badge park in a disabled parking space, only to see its two occupants get out in full running gear and start jogging towards the promenade.

It is hard, I imagine, to get the balance right between not wanting to say anything at all, for fear of causing offence, and acting on suspicions and checking an individual isn't conning the system somehow.

But if one is to start questioning disabled railcard holders about their disability, one should also ask for proof of age from 16-25 railcard holders, and make sure each other individual on the train has their ticket meticulously checked.

We live in a PC culture and I would hate to be checking tickets and come across someone who appears to be fraudulently using a disabled discount. It just isn't a simple situation.

 

[Greenback]

JakeF, I agree with you until it comes down to the last sentence. Rather than bringing out the overused 'Politically Correct' description, which has become a derogatory remark, I prefer to describe it as a society where citizens have more rights than previously. This includes the right to privacy, the right to obtain information from public bodies, and the right not to be discriminated against because of a physical characteristic.

I agree with those rights and I'm sure you do too!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have witnessed a car with a blue badge park in a disabled parking space, only to see its two occupants get out in full running gear and start jogging towards the promenade.

Misuse of blue badges is a big problem, but the problem isn't quite what you seem to think it is. Most blue badges are legitimately issued to people with legitimate mobility problems. But blue badges can only be used when the disabled person is travelling in that car.

What happens is that the disabled person's relative or carer "forgets" to take the blue badge out of the car, and "forgets" to not park in a disabled bay, despite the fact that the disabled person is at home with a mug of tea.

I don't doubt you saw joggers using a blue badge. I do, however, doubt that it was their blue badge.

 

[sarahj]

The basic answer after 3 pages is NO. The only time a qestion on what ails the person is along the lines of 'do you require any asistance?', and they dont need a railcard for me to ask that question, I use my eyes.


As for blue badges, as said, the biggest missue is ones given to allow the user to drive someone around who needs it, but not having that person in the car with them when using the badge. But again, hard to tell. the person who saw someone park up and go jogging, could have held the badge due to an illness and jogging and excersise were part of the treatment. They could have driven to somewhere, flat and safe to do this, knowing their car was close by to be able to get home safely if needed, perhaps with the car holding emergency medical supplies if it all went wrong. You just dont know, and to assume.... well you know what they say, 'assumption is the mother of all f*#k ups'.

 

[Haywain]

I have witnessed a car with a blue badge park in a disabled parking space, only to see its two occupants get out in full running gear and start jogging towards the promenade.

And you can tell that neither of them were visually impaired (obviously one of them wasn't)?

 

[reb0118]

And you can tell that neither of them were visually impaired (obviously one of them wasn't)?

Does visual impalement entitle you to a blue badge? Genuine question - it has always been my belief that you get this for mobility reasons only but I, of course, could be wrong. That said my mate gets one to drive his brother about because he is profoundly deaf (affects his balance &c.)

 

[tony_mac]

Does visual impalement entitle you to a blue badge?

Yes, but an inability to use google doesn't

e.g., http://liverpool.gov.uk/parking-travel-and-roads/parking-permits/blue-badge-permit/

You qualify for a mandatory Blue Badge without any assessment if you are over two years old and you:

Are registered as blind.
Receive a higher rate mobility component of the Disability Living Allowance.
Receive a War Pension Mobility Supplement.

There is always some set of circumstances that could legitimately explain the apparent misuse of a blue badge. Obviously, on occasions there will be misuse, but you can't tell 100% exactly which occasions they are.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure it was said recently that about 50% of blue badges are either fake or misused. If true, that's quite shocking but not entirely surprising given what I'm sure we've all seen.

Sure, you can't see all disabilities but you can be pretty certain that a lot of people are abusing them. It's as if someone doesn't want to be accused of parking in a disabled space without a card, so thinks the solution is to fake one - or borrow one from a member of the family that does qualify. Erm, no, you don't park there!

Having free parking where you might otherwise pay is presumably another big incentive, although a lot more places now make people pay with a blue badge. They get the better location as a 'benefit' not cheaper or free parking.

And my mother who has a blue badge has had more problems finding spaces in recent years. She also has zero rated VED, such that my dad can no longer drive the car according to the rules.

 

[bnm]

It has to be remembered that the Blue Badge scheme only legally covers parking on the public highway and in local authority controlled car parks.

All other places that offer parking are free to impose whatever restrictions or easements as they see fit.

 

[TUC]

The issue of invisible disabilities is an
Important one. My daughter had a condition when growing up, one effect of which was that she found it extremely difficult to understand direction signs. I.e. Even if a station sign showed 'platform 2 turn right across the bridge' she could not work out what that meant she should do. For this reason she arranged assistance whenever she had to change trains. However there were numerous occasions when, presented with an apparently ordinary teenager, staff commented 'you don't really need assistance do you?' including a couple of occasions on journeys with multiple changes when the assistance then mysteriously failed to appear at the next station, leaving my daughter struggling. Grrr!

 

[34D]

However there were numerous occasions when, presented with an apparently ordinary teenager, staff commented 'you don't really need assistance do you?' including a couple of occasions on journeys with multiple changes when the assistance then mysteriously failed to appear at the next station, leaving my daughter struggling. Grrr!

One solution to this situation would be the Safe Journey Cards that FirstGroup has recently introduced, passengers present them with their ticket or pass.

 

[Wolfie]

It has to be remembered that the Blue Badge scheme only legally covers parking on the public highway and in local authority controlled car parks.

All other places that offer parking are free to impose whatever restrictions or easements as they see fit.

That last sentence is a rather dangerous assertion. If you look at certain other fora you will see that some providers of private car parking trying to insist on use of Blue Badges have been treatened with legal action under the Equality Act (the definition of disabled in that legislation does NOT correspond to possessing a Blue Badge).....

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't think it is a case of what they want to restrict it to, but rather how they restrict it. Some places I have noted have taken to changing "disabled parking" to "Disabled badge holders parking" or similar.

 

[bnm]

That last sentence is a rather dangerous assertion. If you look at certain other fora you will see that some providers of private car parking trying to insist on use of Blue Badges have been treatened with legal action under the Equality Act (the definition of disabled in that legislation does NOT correspond to possessing a Blue Badge).....

I said they were 'free to impose whatever restrictions or easements they see fit'. I didn't say that what they do will necessarily comply with legislation. I'm very well aware of the shenanigans of Private Parking Companies having successfully helped a friend win a case in court brought against him by the shysters at ParkingEye.

Requesting display of a Blue Badge on private land can only ever be a contractual term, and any penalty for breach of that contract term has to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

...and in local authority controlled car parks.

Here in Epsom, in it's wisdom, the borough council requires blue badge holders in council car parks to pay the standard rate for the first two hours of parking; they then get a third hour free.

Barmy.... No prizes for guessing what happens as a result...

 

[34D]

Here in Epsom, in it's wisdom, the borough council requires blue badge holders in council car parks to pay the standard rate for the first two hours of parking; they then get a third hour free.

Barmy.... No prizes for guessing what happens as a result...

That sounds like a fair and sensible reasonable adjustment to me, and doesn't pander.

 

[Haywain]

I have seen examples where the first hour or two are free, and they pay afterwards. Which is a form of discount, and caters for the essentials.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That sounds like a fair and sensible reasonable adjustment to me, and doesn't pander.

You should see the local double yellow lines since they introduced this charge a couple of years ago...

 

[TUC]

That sounds like a fair and sensible reasonable adjustment to me, and doesn't pander.

You should see the local double yellow lines since they introduced this charge a couple of years ago...

that's the silkiness of councils charging blue badge holders in council-owned car parks. Since badge holders can park free on double yellow lines for three hours surely it makes more sense to allow them to park for free in car parks and so discourage the need for double yellow parking?