Disabled railcard refused (now resolved)

[Cheshire Scot]

Having attempted to purchase a ticket with Disabled Railcard discount, why didn't the individual involved purchase a ticket using his mobile phone or isn't that legal?

Not everybody has a phone with that capability - I don't!

 

[father_jack]

Having attempted to purchase a ticket with Disabled Railcard discount, why didn't the individual involved purchase a ticket using his mobile phone or isn't that legal?

Comments like that just serve to validate that the OP was badly treated.

 

[_toommm_]

Having attempted to purchase a ticket with Disabled Railcard discount, why didn't the individual involved purchase a ticket using his mobile phone or isn't that legal?

There’s no requirement to purchase on a phone. Some people choose not to use m/e-tickets because they don’t like them, and at this current moment in time, there’s no requirement to purchase on a phone if other ticketing facilities aren’t available or can’t be used.

 

[Whistler40145]

Comments like that just serve to validate that the OP was badly treated.

I had a situation whereby I had tickets purchased, but had misplaced my Disabled Persons Railcard and had t purchase a new single ticket costing nearly £60

 

[RPI]

I keep saying this across many posts.

Commission grabbing.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Customer relations will say sorry and refund the 34%. But that won't affect the commission level to the seller of the ticket so it will keep happening. There are urban myths indoctrinated into revenue staff, for example "only anytime tickets can be issued on a warrant" !!!

Would be interesting as well to know if the OP actually paid a "full fare" like they said, ie an "Anytime Day Single SDS" £68.40 or was charged the appropriate fare for the time "Super Offpeak Single SSS" £27.40.

Reading excess window is usually staffed by staff that come under stations who don't get commission, likewise if it was an RPI which is common at Reading then they also don't get commission, only Ticket Examiners and Guards get commission on ticket sales.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having attempted to purchase a ticket with Disabled Railcard discount, why didn't the individual involved purchase a ticket using his mobile phone or isn't that legal?

Tickets on your phone need to be purchased before boarding[1]. A few guards will let you do so on board because it's better than nothing and less faff for them, but they don't have to.

If the OP does have a suitable mobile phone then that is probably a good way to avoid the issue for the future, because cleaning of your mobile phone is wholly within your own control. It isn't obligatory, but it certainly seems that it would involve less contact than buying a ticket even from the guard, as the guard will have handled the ticket before handing it to you, plus any change or the card machine.

[1] Though I'll admit to having sat on a train at a terminus purchasing one rather than standing in the cold doing so, though I was ready to get off if the purchase had failed.

I had a situation whereby I had tickets purchased, but had misplaced my Disabled Persons Railcard and had t purchase a new single ticket costing nearly £60

Yes, if you forget your Railcard you do have to buy again, but I recall that can be refunded (infrequently) if the Railcard is later produced.

There’s no requirement to purchase on a phone. Some people choose not to use m/e-tickets because they don’t like them, and at this current moment in time, there’s no requirement to purchase on a phone if other ticketing facilities aren’t available or can’t be used.

Very true, and long may that remain so. However, to someone obsessed about cleanliness (whether that be related to a disability as in this case, or whether it be related to someone who is just very careful about cleanliness) it's an obvious option to take as the whole ticketing and passing the barrier process doesn't involve touching anything but your phone, which you can clean yourself.

 

[Hadders]

I had a situation whereby I had tickets purchased, but had misplaced my Disabled Persons Railcard and had t purchase a new single ticket costing nearly £60

There is a forgotten railcards policy whereby on the first occasion in a year the train company should refund the cost of the additional ticket purchased if you send in a copy of the railcard.

 

[Western Sunset]

Though in this case the OP had their Railcard with them, unless I've misread their post.

 

[father_jack]

Reading excess window is usually staffed by staff that come under stations who don't get commission, likewise if it was an RPI which is common at Reading then they also don't get commission, only Ticket Examiners and Guards get commission on ticket sales.

Ah fair enough @RPI I stand corrected.

 

[30907]

Meanwhile, post #2 said it all. I quote the opening paragraph, as I think the OP has noted the suggested detail, and the rest of us don't need it a third time

You can an absolutely should write to the operator of the station ticket office (and of the train you were on only if it was a different one) explaining that you have been discriminated against and that you are seeking a refund of the difference at the very least for your journey you were overcharged from.
You should include all the journey details clearly, without including anything un-necessary.

 

[jumble]

I can't comment for other TOCs, but at mine there are signs advising if you can't use the ticket machine to speak to staff or press the help point button, so if your at a staffed station and staff are available they expect you to ask for help. In practice though it would depend on if you can find staff, even in 24 hour stations finding staff at 3pm is going to be very different to 3am. I'd imagine if their was a staff member around the ticket machine area they may treat it differently than if the only people on duty were on platforms or in an office.

Presumably this does not help the OP as their disability will make pressing a help button as unacceptable as using the touch screen

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably this does not help the OP as their disability will make pressing a help button as unacceptable as using the touch screen

Would be much easier to activate a standard help point with your elbow (say) than a TVM, though.

That said if I was the OP I'd just carry some wipes in my pocket and clean anything myself - the seat armrests, door buttons etc included.

But yes, next step contact customer services and tell them what happened, and an RTV for the difference is likely to be forthcoming.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I suppose it makes no difference in the scheme of things, and I am sure that the operator will be forthcoming with a positive outcome, and I in no way wish to question somebody's disability, but:

1) Can't use a self service machine because of hygiene issues - OK
2) Potentially can't use a help point for advice/permission to travel because of hygiene issues - OK
3) Doesn't wish to use their own mobile device - fair enough, but would seem a reasonable compromise - but OK
4) Pays at the destination. Now if points 1 and 2 are accurate, you would have to assume that the customer can't pay by debit or credit card either, (same hygiene issues with pressing buttons/handling a public chip and pin device), and even more unlikely to be using cash (!!) unless they have sterilised it and cleaned it before handling it....


All somewhat moot, because the operator will be unlikely to question the complaint, but I would be interested how the original poster eventually purchased the (more expensive) ticket. It's easy to blame the rail operator, but the operator is obliged to only take reasonable steps, not every step possible.

 

[jacksmithyton]

I suppose it makes no difference in the scheme of things, and I am sure that the operator will be forthcoming with a positive outcome, and I in no way wish to question somebody's disability, but:

1) Can't use a self service machine because of hygiene issues - OK
2) Potentially can't use a help point for advice/permission to travel because of hygiene issues - OK
3) Doesn't wish to use their own mobile device - fair enough, but would seem a reasonable compromise - but OK
4) Pays at the destination. Now if points 1 and 2 are accurate, you would have to assume that the customer can't pay by debit or credit card either, (same hygiene issues with pressing buttons/handling a public chip and pin device), and even more unlikely to be using cash (!!) unless they have sterilised it and cleaned it before handling it....


All somewhat moot, because the operator will be unlikely to question the complaint, but I would be interested how the original poster eventually purchased the (more expensive) ticket. It's easy to blame the rail operator, but the operator is obliged to only take reasonable steps, not every step possible.

I haven't used a chip & pin card for years, I use either Google or Apple pay, depending on which phone I fish out of my pocket first

 

[Llanigraham]

I haven't used a chip & pin card for years, I use either Google or Apple pay, depending on which phone I fish out of my pocket first

And as has been pointed early over the matter of e/m tickets, not everyone has that facility on their phones. For example I don't.

 

[6Gman]

I suppose it makes no difference in the scheme of things, and I am sure that the operator will be forthcoming with a positive outcome, and I in no way wish to question somebody's disability, but:

1) Can't use a self service machine because of hygiene issues - OK
2) Potentially can't use a help point for advice/permission to travel because of hygiene issues - OK
3) Doesn't wish to use their own mobile device - fair enough, but would seem a reasonable compromise - but OK
4) Pays at the destination. Now if points 1 and 2 are accurate, you would have to assume that the customer can't pay by debit or credit card either, (same hygiene issues with pressing buttons/handling a public chip and pin device), and even more unlikely to be using cash (!!) unless they have sterilised it and cleaned it before handling it....


All somewhat moot, because the operator will be unlikely to question the complaint, but I would be interested how the original poster eventually purchased the (more expensive) ticket. It's easy to blame the rail operator, but the operator is obliged to only take reasonable steps, not every step possible.

I'm a bit OCD, and have been very, very careful in this pandemic. On the occasions I need to use a public keyboard (ATM, car park machine) I either pop on a disposable glove or use a finger joint and then sanitise it.

But I would expect the operator to refund the difference to the OP and to apologise.

 

[HSP 2]

Can I ask the OP the same question a second time? Approx. what time did you leave Bath?

 

[RunawayTrain]

One thing I'd say to the OP after a quarter of a century of experience, is that they'll find that the TVM probably is cleaned more often than many ticket offices and as for some who work in them.......

This may well be the case, but to someone with this type of OCD (which sounds like it is contamination-based) this is not relevant. The chance that it could be contaminated is all that matters to the sufferer. Only if it was 100% guaranteed to be completely clean and sterilised immediately before they used it might it then be OK to use.

 

[gray1404]

If the OP had a disability that prevented them from using the ticket selling facilities, they are entitled to buy the cheapest possible ticket for their journey (with any railcard discounts applied) at the first available opportunity. Failure to allow this is refusal to make a reasonable adjustment for a disabled person under the Equalities Act and is unlawful discrimination. In this case that was on arrival at Reading. The OP should be sending GWR a letter before action seeking a refund of the additional fare paid and compensation for the failure to make a reasonable adjustment equivalent to what they would claim against GWR in court.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the OP had a disability that prevented them from using the ticket selling facilities, they are entitled to buy the cheapest possible ticket for their journey (with any railcard discounts applied) at the first available opportunity. Failure to allow this is refusal to make a reasonable adjustment for a disabled person under the Equalities Act and is unlawful discrimination. In this case that was on arrival at Reading. The OP should be sending GWR a letter before action seeking a refund of the additional fare paid and compensation for the failure to make a reasonable adjustment equivalent to what they would claim against GWR in court.

This does depend on whether the adjustment is reasonable. To use an example, if I can't walk I would bring a wheelchair with me in order to reach the train, and not expect a TOC's staff to pick me up and carry me, just for them to provide a ramp or similar so I could board in it. If I couldn't use a TVM without being sure it had been cleaned immediately before use, I would bring my own wipes to clean it, or use my phone to buy a ticket.

So I wouldn't go in "all guns blazing" to begin with, I'd write a polite letter essentially asking for good customer service, because otherwise you might find the other side just getting entrenched against you.

Of course, if you're a disability campaigner that is what you want, but I suspect the OP just wants the extra fare back and it not to happen again.

 

[Deerfold]

And as has been pointed early over the matter of e/m tickets, not everyone has that facility on their phones. For example I don't.

No, but as you're replying to the OP, it answers what they'd do in this case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And as has been pointed early over the matter of e/m tickets, not everyone has that facility on their phones. For example I don't.

Indeed not. But if you're obsessive about cleanliness to the point that using a TVM gives you great anxiety, such a phone does seem a very sensible purchase to make. It's not just TVMs where it can help - for example you can order from your phone on the fairly ubiquitous Costa Coffee machines, a facility that was introduced for COVID but is very likely to stay around.

Obviously reasonable adjustments must be made for disabilities, but it's also sensible to help yourself as well.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Indeed not. But if you're obsessive about cleanliness to the point that using a TVM gives you great anxiety, such a phone does seem a very sensible purchase to make. It's not just TVMs where it can help - for example you can order from your phone on the fairly ubiquitous Costa Coffee machines, a facility that was introduced for COVID but is very likely to stay around.

Obviously reasonable adjustments must be made for disabilities, but it's also sensible to help yourself as well.

The OP says he uses google or apple pay depending on which phone he fishes out of his pocket. That would appear to suggest that the option of purchasing a ticket by means of a phone is highly likely to be available to him, and that he is reasonably comfortable with using the technology at his disposal.

 

[jacksmithyton]

After contacting GWR last week I've just received an email saying they'll not only refund me all of my fare, but also give me £50 in vouchers as a 'goodwill gesture'. A result!

 

[greyman42]

After contacting GWR last week I've just received an email saying they'll not only refund me all of my fare, but also give me £50 in vouchers as a 'goodwill gesture'. A result!

And hopefully they will brief the relevant staff regarding disabled railcards T&Cs.

 

[Hadders]

That's a good result, well done.

 

[Vespa]

After contacting GWR last week I've just received an email saying they'll not only refund me all of my fare, but also give me £50 in vouchers as a 'goodwill gesture'. A result!

Good result, have they said they will reducate their staff ?

I would print out a copy of the email and show it to the staff that refused it as well as the station supervisor.

 

[ta-toget]

I would print out a copy of the email and show it to the staff that refused it as well as the station supervisor.

Is that appropriate? I would have thought it might annoy them. I'd rather seek reassurance from Customer Service (or whoever was being corresponded with) that staff were being informed.

 

[Vespa]

Is that appropriate? I would have thought it might annoy them. I'd rather seek reassurance from Customer Service (or whoever was being corresponded with) that staff were being informed.

Coming off previous posts, that rarely happens it seems.