Discussion of July 4 changes in England announced by Boris Johnson

[route101]

I imagine it’ll be similar to the number of Scots finding a similar need to visit Carlisle/Berwick

To be fair , a lot of Scots dont holiday in England.

 

[route101]

I wonder how busy the pubs in Carlisle and Berwick Upon Tweed will be on 4th July, with hordes of thirsty Scotsmen willing to break Nicola Sturgeon's 5 mile "rule" in search of a pint or three.

Im tempted !

 

[Huntergreed]

Surprisingly (or perhaps not), the general public response to the announcement has been quite negative, with many viewing the change as reckless and happening far too soon. Some Facebook comments i stumbled across in the comments section of various news articles:

Why has BJ stopped listening to Whitty to line his pockets. It’s so obvious that we’re going to have a second peak, BJ should be charged with genocide for population control

Nahhh, can’t actual believe it, I can go for a night oot but folk are still dyin, wtf BJ, lockdown needs to go on until next spring.

This one is definitely my favourite

I cannot believe it. This country is turning into a slaughter house where the government are killing off the population to save the economy. I will NOT (angry face) be sending my kids to school or returning to work until they find a jag, he’s going to kill us all, we need a petition

It’s actually quite scary just how vocal and deluded some of the lockdown activists are!! I wonder what they would say when they lose their home due to furlough ending, or worse total economic collapse. I’m glad to see the government ministers have dropped their fear driven messaging (Whitty however was laying it on thick tonight), hopefully when 4th July comes and life starts to feel normal these people will start to realise that we need to live with this virus and we can’t eliminate it, as well as realising that it’s nowhere nearly as dangerous as they think it is.

 

[geoffk]

I wonder how busy the pubs in Carlisle and Berwick Upon Tweed will be on 4th July, with hordes of thirsty Scotsmen willing to break Nicola Sturgeon's 5 mile "rule" in search of a pint or three.

Not just Carlisle and Berwick, but also Chester, Whitchurch, Oswestry and Shrewsbury.

 

[DelayRepay]

Surprisingly (or perhaps not), the general public response to the announcement has been quite negative, with many viewing the change as reckless and happening far too soon. Some Facebook comments i stumbles across in the comments section of various news articles:

I must admit I was slightly surprised at the scale of the relaxation of rules. I did not expect to be able to go into another person's house for a little while longer.

But I do support the decision. For me, it's now about choice. As an adult, I can assess the risk to me of catching a bus, going to a pub, visiting a friend, and I can make my own decisions. Everyone else can too. There are probably some things/places I will continue to avoid, but the point is I am now being allowed to assess my own risks and make my own choices. I accept that in doing so I may catch Covid, and I accept that there is a small chance that will end badly. My view is that accepting the small risk is preferable to spending the rest of my life indoors unable to see friends or family (or even meet people who may become friends!)

I probably feel happier today than I have at any time since New Year's Day!

I was one of the people who was worried that the two May Bank Holidays, and some of the lifting of restrictions previously would cause problems. I am pleased to be proven wrong.

I should add that I am looking forward to a short break in Norfolk in a few weeks. It's been a few years since I've had an English holiday. I just hope I am welcomed by the local people when spending my money in their businesses.

 

[153375]

Personally I think that if TOC’s keep peddling the “essential travel only” line for much longer it’s definitely going to put a lot of people off travelling by train. I very much doubt they’d be still advising this if the Dft hadn’t took on the risk for 6months with the EMA’s. With the increase in people choosing to work from home in the future and companies allowing this to cut their own costs, rail is probably going to be the worst affected form of public transport.

As for Northern’s promoting “essential travel only” my local TOC, East Midlands Railway are by far the worst at pushing this, to the point of you have to answer four tick box questions before you can even look up train times. I live in a small Lincolnshire town where there’s hardly any shops so you have no choice but to travel to either Lincoln or Nottingham for shopping. There is no other reliable transport as the last bus to my area is at 2:45pm, (yes 2:45pm). No everyone has a car and for some people, myself included can’t drive due to medical reasons.
I for one will definitely be travelling on 4th July wether the advice changes or not and even if EMR are still peddling this nonsense, I guarantee I won’t be the only one.

J

 

[duncanp]

East Midlands Railway are by far the worst at pushing this, to the point of you have to answer four tick box questions before you can even look up train times

You only have to answer one of the questions East Midlands Railway ask you.

I don't know why they bother though, as there is no procedure for checking whether your answer is correct.

 

[scotrail158713]

To be fair , a lot of Scots dont holiday in England.

That’s a bit of a generalised statement is it not?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You only have to answer one of the questions East Midlands Railway ask you.

Classic railway IT incompetence - the intention is clearly that you should have to tick all of them, but at least that incompetence absolves you of any need to lie! (If you can't tick the first one why aren't you self isolating?)

 

[Ianno87]

Personally I think that if TOC’s keep peddling the “essential travel only” line for much longer it’s definitely going to put a lot of people off travelling by train. I very much doubt they’d be still advising this if the Dft hadn’t took on the risk for 6months with the EMA’s. With the increase in people choosing to work from home in the future and companies allowing this to cut their own costs, rail is probably going to be the worst affected form of public transport.

As for Northern’s promoting “essential travel only” my local TOC, East Midlands Railway are by far the worst at pushing this, to the point of you have to answer four tick box questions before you can even look up train times. I live in a small Lincolnshire town where there’s hardly any shops so you have no choice but to travel to either Lincoln or Nottingham for shopping. There is no other reliable transport as the last bus to my area is at 2:45pm, (yes 2:45pm). No everyone has a car and for some people, myself included can’t drive due to medical reasons.
I for one will definitely be travelling on 4th July wether the advice changes or not and even if EMR are still peddling this nonsense, I guarantee I won’t be the only one.

J

Strangely, seems like this evening I've been pushed a load of National Rail Facebook ads where words like "essential" are notably absent. Perhaps the message starts to turn....?

 

[Fisherman80]

.......I have just boarded the 2144 from Preston to Leeds,and I've just heard an automated announcement "welcoming key workers onboard this Northern service"!!! Can they make it any clearer that they do not want leisure travel!

 

[Fisherman80]

Absolutely.

Northern are either incompetent or are deliberately misleading people; the Government guidelines are very clear and do not in any way state what Northern claim they say. Many people have challenged them on Twitter and they've taken a huge amount of stick.

I'd stick to the official Government guidelines. It's not for Northern to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I doubt Northern will persist with their misinformation campaign for much longer anyway and almost certainly not beyond 4th July.

Completely agree with you Yorkie. From early July I expect to see a near normal return to service.

 

[yorkie]

Surprisingly (or perhaps not), the general public response to the announcement has been quite negative....

I think that's only true among a highly vocal minority who are very active on social media sites. Most 'normal' people are quite happy! In fact, there are more people I know who feel they don't go far enough.

Here is an example of that:

Anger as indoor facilities remain closed

Sporting bodies are "devastated" and "frustrated" after the government does not include indoor activities in the latest coronavirus relaxation.

www.bbc.co.uk

Badminton England chief executive Adrian Christy called it a "mystifying decision", adding that the omission was an "almighty kick in the teeth to grassroots indoor sports participants".

"The decision is not just a sport matter but risks the nation lurching from one health crisis to another."

Swim England’s chief executive Jane Nickerson described "dismay and frustration" over the lack of change and called for the government to amend the new list of permitted activities, as she underlined the benefits that her sport plays in the health of the population.

.......I have just boarded the 2144 from Preston to Leeds,and I've just heard an automated announcement "welcoming key workers onboard this Northern service"!!! Can they make it any clearer that they do not want leisure travel!

Let's discuss this elsewhere; the Government's current guidelines are very clear that journeys are allowed for any reason and this has not changed with today's announcement. The refusal of some train companies to promote the official guidance, and to deter legitimate travel in accordance with the guidance, is best discussed in other threads.

 

[northernchris]

Northern are either incompetent or are deliberately misleading people; the Government guidelines are very clear and do not in any way state what Northern claim they say. Many people have challenged them on Twitter and they've taken a huge amount of stick.

I'd stick to the official Government guidelines. It's not for Northern to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I doubt Northern will persist with their misinformation campaign for much longer anyway and almost certainly not beyond 4th July.

I hope this message does change by July 4th. With the easing of lockdown I'm now planning an overnight stay to Manchester in July and will be travelling by train. Although within the guidelines it does make me uncomfortable when the messaging is essential travel only and keyworker service

It’s actually quite scary just how vocal and deluded some of the lockdown activists are!! I wonder what they would say when they lose their home due to furlough ending, or worse total economic collapse. I’m glad to see the government ministers have dropped their fear driven messaging (Whitty however was laying it on thick tonight), hopefully when 4th July comes and life starts to feel normal these people will start to realise that we need to live with this virus and we can’t eliminate it, as well as realising that it’s nowhere nearly as dangerous as they think it is.

No doubt it will be the governments fault if they did lose their home as furlough should have been extended. I'm still not convinced it has got through to some people that there's no guarantee of a vaccine, so we need to be prepared to live with the virus indefinitely and keeping people under lockdown is not the best way to deal with it. Of course, there's also the fact that even though something is permissible it doesn't mean it's mandatory. If people want to remain indoors that's absolutely their right to do so, but they shouldn't criticise others for not doing so

 

[Freightmaster]

Surprisingly (or perhaps not), the general public response to the announcement has been quite negative, with many viewing the change as reckless and happening far too soon. Some Facebook comments i stumbled across in the comments section of various news articles:

...It’s so obvious that we’re going to have a second peak, BJ should be charged with genocide for population control...

...I cannot believe it. This country is turning into a slaughter house where the government are killing off the population...

These people are completely out of their minds - I'm so glad I'm not on Facebook!!

I will NOT (angry face) be sending my kids to school or returning to work until they find a jag,

Perhaps John Prescott might be able to help with that?!





MARK

 

[Starmill]

Yes, but to me "avoid using public transport if possible" extends (or at least can be interpreted to extend) to avoiding non-essential journeys if they are only possible that way. And Northern and the Unions certainly agree

It's reasonably clear that this is what almost everyone has interpreted from the government.

 

[Starmill]

Let's see how quickly Northern's message changes when the government funding tap is turned off and they have to generate their own revenue!

What? The government cannot 'turn off' funding for Northern. If the bills weren't paid the staff wouldn't be paid. Northern would not exist without the government...

 

[Starmill]

.......I have just boarded the 2144 from Preston to Leeds,and I've just heard an automated announcement "welcoming key workers onboard this Northern service"!!! Can they make it any clearer that they do not want leisure travel!

They don't even want people going to work on their services unless they're a 'key worker'. I think that's the actual problem, but I said so in March and was shouted down for it.

 

[philosopher]

It’s actually quite scary just how vocal and deluded some of the lockdown activists are!! I wonder what they would say when they lose their home due to furlough ending, or worse total economic collapse. I’m glad to see the government ministers have dropped their fear driven messaging (Whitty however was laying it on thick tonight), hopefully when 4th July comes and life starts to feel normal these people will start to realise that we need to live with this virus and we can’t eliminate it, as well as realising that it’s nowhere nearly as dangerous as they think it is.

Agreed, the lockdown has served its original purpose which was to stop the NHS from being overwhelmed so these changes make sense. You can never completely eliminate risk, you can only reduce it as much as is reasonably practicable. Shutting a large part of economy until a vaccine is found is not practicable.

You need a strong economy to fund the NHS in the first place. There is a reason why rich countries tend to have longer life expectancies.

 

[brad465]

I haven't seen this discussed anywhere else and I imagine most franchises haven't confirmed anything on this, but does anyone know what the odds of mainline summer specials running this year are? My instinct is they would not on a reduced timetable (although for now some still show up on National rail), although with hospitality now opening up, where they increase the service frequency to key destinations they could help spread out crowds over more services.

 

[Djgr]

To be fair , a lot of Scots dont holiday in England.

Tell that to the Blackpool guesthouses

 

[bramling]

Surprisingly (or perhaps not), the general public response to the announcement has been quite negative, with many viewing the change as reckless and happening far too soon. Some Facebook comments i stumbled across in the comments section of various news articles:





This one is definitely my favourite



It’s actually quite scary just how vocal and deluded some of the lockdown activists are!! I wonder what they would say when they lose their home due to furlough ending, or worse total economic collapse. I’m glad to see the government ministers have dropped their fear driven messaging (Whitty however was laying it on thick tonight), hopefully when 4th July comes and life starts to feel normal these people will start to realise that we need to live with this virus and we can’t eliminate it, as well as realising that it’s nowhere nearly as dangerous as they think it is.

Given how much of a mess has been made of all this to date, it’s possibly quite understandable that most people just don’t really have confidence in anything this government does regarding this crisis.

However, I do agree with the general sentiment - a dose of realism is urgently needed.

Ultimately the next problem is what happens regarding shielding. My workplace has suddenly gone mad with labels, one way systems and the like over the last couple of weeks. Indeed social distancing has only really seriously taken hold over the last month.

What bugs me with today’s message is that, once again, Boris seems to want to be the pleasing puppy dog in getting pubs open, but without much conspicuous focus on getting people back to work, and perhaps even more importantly children back to school (which is of course a major facilitator to the first of those by providing de-facto childcare).

 

[LowLevel]

Tell that to the Blackpool guesthouses

And certain weeks in Skegness where you turn up to Grantham station and find a platform full of people from Scotland

 

[Mugby]

It’s actually quite scary just how vocal and deluded some of the lockdown activists are!! I wonder what they would say when they lose their home due to furlough ending, or worse total economic collapse. I’m glad to see the government ministers have dropped their fear driven messaging (Whitty however was laying it on thick tonight), hopefully when 4th July comes and life starts to feel normal these people will start to realise that we need to live with this virus and we can’t eliminate it, as well as realising that it’s nowhere nearly as dangerous as they think it is.

Yes absolutely. Whitty was making sure his own backside was well and truly covered in that final regular briefing!

 

[Mugby]

Absolutely.

Northern are either incompetent or are deliberately misleading people; the Government guidelines are very clear and do not in any way state what Northern claim they say. Many people have challenged them on Twitter and they've taken a huge amount of stick.

I'd stick to the official Government guidelines. It's not for Northern to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I doubt Northern will persist with their misinformation campaign for much longer anyway and almost certainly not beyond 4th July.

The problem is when you get on a train (as I did yesterday) and find 90% of the seats have very prominent stretch bands over them saying
DO NOT USE. It's rather disconcerting!

 

[yorkie]

The problem is when you get on a train (as I did yesterday) and find 90% of the seats have very prominent stretch bands over them saying
DO NOT USE. It's rather disconcerting!

True, though the vast majority of operators don't do this; see https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ic-transport-thus-increasing-capacity.205564/ for my thoughts on social distancing on trains.

 

[Crossover]

All in all, the changes seem proportionate, although wider reaching than I was perhaps expecting. I think it has reached a point where one needs to weigh up their own risk assessment and do what the feel is right for them and those around them

Whilst I was supportive of the railways approach initially, it is starting to look a little stale now as things start to relax around them (particularly with the need to have face coverings) - as has been mentioned elsewhere, this is mainly directed at Northern

I’m hoping it may be possible to spend a little more time away from the home ‘bubble’ that has become the norm and venture a little further afield in the coming weeks

Regarding Wales, I believe some of restrictions are being lifted there around the same time they are for us (England) - I haven’t read into the detail but a discussion I was having earlier today was that caravan/camp sites, at least, are due to be open (with distancing measures in place and communal facilities closed)

 

[Jamiescott1]

In the past week my local station(high wycombe) has put markets on the floor every 2 metres at the entrance to the station. I hope this does not mean they will implement limited numbers of people per train and a queueing system to the enter the station.

 

[yorksrob]

Given how much of a mess has been made of all this to date, it’s possibly quite understandable that most people just don’t really have confidence in anything this government does regarding this crisis.

However, I do agree with the general sentiment - a dose of realism is urgently needed.

Ultimately the next problem is what happens regarding shielding. My workplace has suddenly gone mad with labels, one way systems and the like over the last couple of weeks. Indeed social distancing has only really seriously taken hold over the last month.

What bugs me with today’s message is that, once again, Boris seems to want to be the pleasing puppy dog in getting pubs open, but without much conspicuous focus on getting people back to work, and perhaps even more importantly children back to school (which is of course a major facilitator to the first of those by providing de-facto childcare).

Have you not been listening to the news ? They've done nothing but bang on about schools for the past three months. The fact is with schools, you have a lot of staff and parents who are wary about opening up, wheras anyone wary about going to a pub has the option of not going.

In terms of getting back to work, the vast majority of workers should be back working already. The exception being the service industries (such as pubs) which are currently shut by order.

 

[duncanp]

I can't help but think that a lot of the petty restrictions imposed by the government (eg. asking pubs to take people's contact details ) are a sop to the scientists such as Chris Whitty in order to get them to agree to relax the 2 metre social distancing rule to 1 metre.

For example, on Sunday 5th July it will be possible to go to a church service, where you will be spending about an hour indoors with people who are not in your household, and yet you wont be asked for your name, address and phone number by the vicar.

And yet if you go to the pub afterwards, you will be asked for this information.

What is the difference?

I can help thinking that, as with the quarantine requirement for people returning from abroad, it will not be rigorously enforced, and will be quietly forgotten about fairly soon.