Displaced 185s..

[ValleyLines142]

Manchester - Blackpool/Barrow/Windermere were all 175 operated under FNW and Manchester - Newcastle/Middlesbrough/Sunderland/etc were all 158 under TPE/ATN (as was). The 'TPE' franchise was specified to incorporate all these routes, so yes the 185s were ordered for the Blackpool services.

I agree, and I think a key route like Blackpool should have some 'modern'-ish stock.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Manchester - Blackpool/Barrow/Windermere were all 175 operated under FNW and Manchester - Newcastle/Middlesbrough/Sunderland/etc were all 158 under TPE/ATN (as was). The 'TPE' franchise was specified to incorporate all these routes, so yes the 185s were ordered for the Blackpool services.



Is this based on fares disparity? It's been established that Northern's own fares are on a par with those around the South East (Preston - Blackburn is on a par with Canterbury - Faversham). And if we're talking PTE fares then Bradford - Wakefield is on a par with Birmingham - Coventry (same fare, same distance), yet London Midland get new stock aplenty.

It's not that it's not economically viable, it's lack of political will to invest.

Okay i may have got lost on that bit then :/

Compare the amount of people who travel between the places you compare? A hell of a lot more on the routes you mentioned that are not in northern area.

 

[WestCoast]

The Blackpool North - Manchester Airport TPE service is a very busy route at certain times. I was on the 17:46 from Piccadilly last Saturday and the 185 was completely rammed (delayed at every stop trying to squeeze more on) up until Chorley.

There's no way a 156 would be suitable. 3-car 158s are the only suitable units Northern has for this route IMHO. Even then, the door configuration and circulation spaces are so much better on the 185s which were designed with standing passengers in mind.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Blackpool North - Manchester Airport TPE service is a very busy route at certain times. I was on the 17:46 from Piccadilly last Saturday and the 185 was completely rammed (delayed at every stop trying to squeeze more on) up until Chorley.

There's no way a 156 would be suitable. 3-car 158s are the only suitable units Northern has for this route IMHO. Even then, the door configuration and circulation spaces are so much better on the 185s which were designed with standing passengers in mind.

well i would of made it a 4 or 6 car not a single unit

 

[ValleyLines142]

The Blackpool North - Manchester Airport TPE service is a very busy route at certain times. I was on the 17:46 from Piccadilly last Saturday and the 185 was completely rammed (delayed at every stop trying to squeeze more on) up until Chorley.

There's no way a 156 would be suitable. 3-car 158s are the only suitable units Northern has for this route IMHO. Even then, the door configuration and circulation spaces are so much better on the 185s which were designed with standing passengers in mind.

I agree with you on that one. Even the 1046 from Piccadilly, which isn't exactly peak hours, was rammed to the rafters last week with 185149. If I'm honest I think some of the Blackpool's should be double-formed.

 

[WestCoast]

well i would of made it a 4 or 6 car not a single unit

I don't have anything against Northern, but if they ran this important route as a 4-car 156 service I could see it being short-formed all the time or replaced with something ridiculous like a single 142, due to lack of stock.

At least with TPE, you know it's going to be a 3-car 185.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think i might have spent the entire past few days talking out of my rear so im going to recluse into a cave now.

 

[Lampshade]

The Blackpool North - Manchester Airport TPE service is a very busy route at certain times. I was on the 17:46 from Piccadilly last Saturday and the 185 was completely rammed (delayed at every stop trying to squeeze more on) up until Chorley.

I was on the 1654 from Piccadilly on Saturday, for some reason the Blackpool TPE ran to the Cumbria/Scotland calling pattern as far as Preston, so the inevitable 2 car 150 had to fill in for the other stations, including all the Bolton Wanderers supporters at Horwich Parkway hock:

I don't have anything against Northern, but if they ran this important route as a 4-car 156 service I could see it being short-formed all the time or replaced with something ridiculous like a single 142, due to lack of stock.

At least with TPE, you know it's going to be a 3-car 185.

It's becoming slightly more consistent now, although the move of the 156s to Allerton in my opinion is just further evidence of Merseytravel's stranglehold on them (why does Wigan NW - Liverpool warrant a 156 yet Hazel Grove - Preston doesn't?). Northern need to keep all services through Bolton as 2x150.

 

[WestCoast]

I was on the 1654 from Piccadilly on Saturday, for some reason the Blackpool TPE ran to the Cumbria/Scotland calling pattern as far as Preston, so the inevitable 2 car 150 had to fill in for the other stations, including all the Bolton Wanderers supporters at Horwich Parkway hock:

The 1746 was stopping at Lostock, Blackrod, Horwich and as such was overwhelmed by christmas shoppers returning from Manchester. I was wedged in First Class standing by the luggage rack... Not pleasant as more and more people kept trying to board.

However, it's genuinely a busy service the vast majority of the time. Although, the Manchester - Preston fast services are not exactly helped by Bolton commuters who insist on boarding TPE services meaning that those heading to Preston / Blackpool / Lancaster / Carlisle / Scotland can barely get on! They must know that there are 'all shacks' services from Victoria, which don't take much longer at all!?

 

[DesiroDom]

What were the 185's meant to be used for?

 

[pemma]

However, it's genuinely a busy service the vast majority of the time. Although, the Manchester - Preston fast services are not exactly helped by Bolton commuters who insist on boarding TPE services meaning that those heading to Preston / Blackpool / Lancaster / Carlisle / Scotland can barely get on! They must know that there are 'all shacks' services from Victoria, which don't take much longer at all!?

What about Bolton commuters who work at Manchester Airport?

 

[ValleyLines142]

What about Bolton commuters who work at Manchester Airport?

They can use Northern as well as TPE.

 

[ainsworth74]

What were the 185's meant to be used for?

If you mean originally when they were ordered then North TPE (Manchester/Liverpool - Middlesbrough/Newcastle/Scarborough/Hull), South TPE (Manchester - Sheffield - Cleethorpes) and the Manchester - Blackpool/Cumbria services. This was supposed to be done with 60 3-car units with the possibility of an extension to 4-car units.

What we got was 51 3-car 185s and 9 2-car 170s with the 170s expected to run doubled up between Manchester and Hull whilst the 185s were to cover everything else (with peak services through the core Leeds - Manchester section often running in pairs). Then the DfT (or SRA) got involved and handed the Manchester - Glasgow/Edinburgh services to TPE without the provision of extra rolling stock this led to the 170s running as single units on both Manchester - Hull and South TPE (with the 185s appearing as well on these routes, most frequently on South TPE) and few if any double 185s through the core during the peak.