Disputes with Merseyrail not crediting refund and selling wrong ticket

[First class]

As much as the staff will complain, and the management make "promises", most Merseyrail ticket offices will have an expiry date, especially when the PTE smartcard really starts to take off.

A TVM or more where justified that has TOD functionality is sufficient for a metro network such as Merseyrail- leave some key offices open during the peak periods.

 

[bb21]

I should note that my preference would be the retention of a full ticket office service at all Merseyrail stations. However if that is not what is being provided, and there is no will to provide it, it's time for a rethink.

Not currently allowed under the TSA. Impartial points of sale and all that.

I don't think I would like that changing. Merseyrail management should be told to get their acts together in respect of refresher training, etc.
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Out of interest, does that mean I could also theoretically go Manchester Victoria - Salford Crescent - Manchester Oxford Road - Lime Street all on Northern non-reservable trains? (I don't plan to.)

Wouldn't that be doubling back at Deansgate?

Not that normal NRG rules always apply to Advances but I wouldn't want to be the one having to justify that route. That said, the chance of a ticket check would be low and Vic barrier staff will almost certainly not argue with you, assuming that it is not accepted by the gates.

 

[Merseysider]

Wouldn't that be doubling back at Deansgate?

Not that normal NRG rules always apply to Advances but I wouldn't want to be the one having to justify that route. That said, the chance of a ticket check would be low and Vic barrier staff will almost certainly not argue with you, assuming that it is not accepted by the gates.

Quite possibly, though I remember an easement floating around that allowed the doubleback. Might have been killed off since I last looked it up though.

I shall probably send Merseyrail an email, making clear that I don't want it treated as a complaint (at this stage). Hopefully if I outline the shortcomings I have experienced it will at least draw their attention to it.

 

[Daysaver]

I've just logged on for the first time in a while to reply to this thread specifically.

First off , I am a TPE conductor and I would have sold that £12 ticket no problem ( We are not all bad ) . This is mainly due to first hand experience of Merseyrail and problems they have issuing anything that goes outside the PTE area. One that springs to mind is Sail Rails sold from star without the mandatory boat reservations, among other things .

Jake - I've got a feeling that going off your comments a few pages back ( the good ones ) that I have met you before. If you ever need any more tickets or want any prices looking up etc then don't hesitate to ask if our paths cross again

 

[Merseysider]

I've just logged on for the first time in a while to reply to this thread specifically.

First off , I am a TPE conductor and I would have sold that £12 ticket no problem ( We are not all bad ) . This is mainly due to first hand experience of Merseyrail and problems they have issuing anything that goes outside the PTE area. One that springs to mind is Sail Rails sold from star without the mandatory boat reservations, among other things .

Jake - I've got a feeling that going off your comments a few pages back ( the good ones ) that I have met you before. If you ever need any more tickets or want any prices looking up etc then don't hesitate to ask if our paths cross again

By any chance would you be the guard who sold me a ticket from Brighton to Shanklin on the express from MCV to LIV last month?

Would you say TPE guards in general (and additionally, you specifically) would sell a railcarded off peak ticket to a customer who genuinely had experienced issues getting the required ticket from Merseyrail? Whilst I recognise Merseyside is mostly a PF area and TPE supposedly only sell Anytime fares onboard, I imagine you can tell the bullsh*tters apart from those telling the truth. Birkenhead Central (my local station) is often one man staffed, and that one man is often helping a disabled customer on/off a train/having a smoke/taking a break/not there full stop! I should probably buy at LIV en route to boarding a TPE but sometimes the queue is just ridiculous :roll:

 

[Daysaver]

Yeah that was me !

I can't say that I get it right all the time , but like you say I can usually tell the genuine problems from those that have been made up. I have more empathy for those coming from merseyrail stations for the simple fact that I know the area and have experience of the issues they cause.

 

[Merseysider]

Yeah that was me !

I can't say that I get it right all the time , but like you say I can usually tell the genuine problems from those that have been made up. I have more empathy for those coming from merseyrail stations for the simple fact that I know the area and have experience of the issues they cause.

I think I've seen some of 'your' tickets in the Oxford Road barrier (long story, STM staff told me to put my advance in even though I needed to keep it so he had to empty the whole lot to get it out again But I digress...) so I'll give you a hello if you're working my train back up to MCO this week.

On a different note, happy to say that I got a PlusBus in about 15 seconds this afternoon; a different bloke at Birkenhead Central had no problem issuing it So either it's pot luck whether a specific clerk knows the process or not, or someone's got their act together and sent a reminder.

The Arriva driver looked fascinated/confused/bewildered at the sight of the PB, perhaps they don't get them very often from Birkenhead passengers

 

[cool110]

The Arriva driver looked fascinated/confused/bewildered at the sight of the PB, perhaps they don't get them very often from Birkenhead passengers

Considering that an area B Saveaway is only 30p more, most passengers are probably getting those.

 

[Merseysider]

Considering that an area B Saveaway is only 30p more, most passengers are probably getting those.

Aye, probably true. There's no railcard discount on the Saveaway so it's £1.50 extra compared to the railcarded plusbus though. I don't think plusbus is as well known as it could be either.

 

[185143]

A couple of months ago I tried to purchase an advance ticket while on a saveaway bash for a journey from Alnmouth-Darlington a few days later.

At the first station I was told something to do with the fact they were changing shifts, they were unable to sell tickets IIRC.

At the second station, I was shack scratching so didn't care, this time on the Wirral Line the ticket was sold no problems. (After the two people in the ticket office worked it out that is) it wasn't a busy station and they were more than happy to do it. (Doubt ME had sold a VTEC advance before as the franchise was only 2 weeks old!) I was using an LM issued RTV as well! Very surprised I had no problems tbh, given some of the stories I've read on here!

 

[Clip]

I don't think I would like that changing. Merseyrail management should be told to get their acts together in respect of refresher training, etc.

Refresher training is the easy part, getting staff to actually pay attention and remember it all is another. Especially if they are sat there punting out the most common ticket day after day - Like we have down here with Travelcards I am sure they have the same there too.

However, the only tool we have in the box of tricks to deal with this is to manage poor staff out the business and as I am sure you are all aware that is very time consuming and there is no guarantee that the next person in will actually have an interest in the job and be willing to learn and retain that knowledge.

 

[Merseysider]

Refresher training is the easy part, getting staff to actually pay attention and remember it all is another. Especially if they are sat there punting out the most common ticket day after day - Like we have down here with Travelcards I am sure they have the same there too.

However, the only tool we have in the box of tricks to deal with this is to manage poor staff out the business and as I am sure you are all aware that is very time consuming and there is no guarantee that the next person in will actually have an interest in the job and be willing to learn and retain that knowledge.

I agree with your post.

But with Merseyrail's (and I'd imagine all) TIS the process by which one issues a ticket doesn't change; it's still the same buttons/typing in the same thing/same place on the touchscreen. Northern have produced sheets for staff at stations to refer to when issuing excess tickets; it can't be too difficult for ME to do a similar thing but for rovers, advances, or anything the staff don't issue on a regular basis and may have forgotten.

 

[Ianigsy]

A bit off topic but I have had a bad experience with Merseyrail ticket offices before too (Bidston). I asked for a Cheshire Day Ranger and the person in the ticket office (quite a rude man) was adamant there was no such thing. I was there for 5 minutes before he decided to look and found it no problem.

My father's response to serial refusals of a similar nature at Birkenhead North was to save up all the additional singles to Liverpool that he had to buy in order to get the Cheshire Day Ranger at Lime Street and send them in to Merseyrail for a refund every time he had £10 worth...

 

[clagmonster]

My father's response to serial refusals of a similar nature at Birkenhead North was to save up all the additional singles to Liverpool that he had to buy in order to get the Cheshire Day Ranger at Lime Street and send them in to Merseyrail for a refund every time he had £10 worth...

If approaching it that way, and assuming there is a freepost address, would it make more of a point to send them in individually.

However, by the book, what you should do, if there booking clerk states that the Cheshire Ranger is unavailable and you are within the validity area, is buy a ticket to allow you to make part of your journey, and then at the first opportunity (ie Lime St) exchange it for the ranger and pay the difference in price, as per Condition 3 of the NRCoC.

 

[gray1404]

...and then at the first opportunity (ie Lime St) exchange it for the ranger and pay the difference in price, as per Condition 3 of the NRCoC.

And pray that the staff there (or at whatever office you use) are willing and able to do that) or you could end up having to buy another ticket to your next port of call - and that would complicate things trying to use 2 tickets to exchange.

 

[reb0118]

....or you could end up having to buy another ticket to your next port of call....

I'm confused. I thought this forum was fully in favour of split ticketing?

 

[34D]

As much as the staff will complain, and the management make "promises", most Merseyrail ticket offices will have an expiry date, especially when the PTE smartcard really starts to take off.

A TVM or more where justified that has TOD functionality is sufficient for a metro network such as Merseyrail- leave some key offices open during the peak periods.

How is the Walrus project going? Is it live for payg journeys yet?

 

[cool110]

How is the Walrus project going? Is it live for payg journeys yet?

It's nowhere near ready for that, it still only supports a Saveaway for use on day of purchase. Ticket offices can't issue them and the un-gated stations don't have validators so it's going to be limited to that and seasons until the all stations get the equipment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm confused. I thought this forum was fully in favour of split ticketing?

The problem with Merseyrail is that often there are sensible and Permitted routes to destinations to the east via both ends of the network (e.g. via Liverpool/Preston, Southport/Preston, Liverpool/Chester etc depending where you are). So a split causes a real disadvantage.

 

[Starmill]

If approaching it that way, and assuming there is a freepost address, would it make more of a point to send them in individually.

However, by the book, what you should do, if there booking clerk states that the Cheshire Ranger is unavailable and you are within the validity area, is buy a ticket to allow you to make part of your journey, and then at the first opportunity (ie Lime St) exchange it for the ranger and pay the difference in price, as per Condition 3 of the NRCoC.

Oh no! Not this again! (Many at Northern aren't fans of Condition 3 when it comes to their obligations - but don't seem to mind it when they get to give you an £80 'Charge')

 

[clagmonster]

And pray that the staff there (or at whatever office you use) are willing and able to do that) or you could end up having to buy another ticket to your next port of call - and that would complicate things trying to use 2 tickets to exchange.

Condition 3 states:
"3. Where the full range of tickets is not available
If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because the
range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start your journey
is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to
make at least part of the journey. You must then, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy
an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to
pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your
journey. The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or
Permit to Travel."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf

So, the booking office at your origin can't sell the appropriate ticket, thus the range of tickets available is clearly restricted.
You buy a ticket to make part of the journey.
You get to Lime St. If the staff are not willing or able, then surely it is not reasonably practicable to buy the rover at Lime Street, given that you would only need to pay the difference in fair. Thus, as I see it, in this position you are free to move onto the next reasonable potential opportunity to perform the transaction.