District line engineering works 15/16th June

[MatthewRead]

I've discovered three quarters of the District line will be closed this weekend no service west of Aldgate East. I was trying to ask staff at Turnham Green earlier today what the situation would be on the Piccadilly line on whether it would be stopping but they said that the Piccadilly line is meant to be closed between Hammersmith and Acton Town. If it isn't it should be stopping at least at Turnham Green we don't want a load of replacement buses clogging up the streets there and if its about Heathrow just get the passengers to use the Heathrow Express now that they accept Pay As You Go there is really no excuse (this is coming from a normal member of the travelling public not a trainspotter).

 

[ijmad]

Tfl website shows Piccadilly as running this weekend.

 

[MikeWh]

... and if its about Heathrow just get the passengers to use the Heathrow Express now that they accept Pay As You Go there is really no excuse (this is coming from a normal member of the travelling public not a trainspotter).

Hmmm. £3.10 vs £22.00.

 

[jopsuk]

The TfL website has a good clear status page that always has a tab for "this weekend" and "future dates", letting you see what is planned. It appears that they are sticking with buses at Turnham Green; with the stations east, west and south also not being served by the District Line there would have to be the buses anyway; and it is probable that Piccadilly services will be busier than usual between Acton Town and Hammersmith making stopping at Turnham Green an overcrowding risk. It appears that the H&C is extended to Upminster

 

[Dstock7080]

Normal Piccadilly Line service, not stopping at Turnham Green, except at the usual times.

Replacement bus:
Service DL-1: Acton Town-Gunnersbury-Chiswick Park-Turnham Green-Stamford Brook-Ravenscourt Park-Hammersmith

Joint District H&C train service Upminster-Hammersmith H&C

 

[MatthewRead]

The TfL website has a good clear status page that always has a tab for "this weekend" and "future dates", letting you see what is planned. It appears that they are sticking with buses at Turnham Green; with the stations east, west and south also not being served by the District Line there would have to be the buses anyway; and it is probable that Piccadilly services will be busier than usual between Acton Town and Hammersmith making stopping at Turnham Green an overcrowding risk. It appears that the H&C is extended to Upminster

But they've done it before what makes this weekend any different?

 

[moogal]

Joint District H&C train service Upminster-Hammersmith H&C

Interesting. Will there be any uplift on frequencies there, as normal H&C service is only 6tph?

 

[Mojo]

Interesting. Will there be any uplift on frequencies there, as normal H&C service is only 6tph?

Trains will run Hammersmith - Upminster every 10 Min and Hammersmith - Barking every 10 Min, meaning that the usual frequency will apply on the Hammersmith & Circle line between Hammersmith and Liverpool St of every 5 Min, but the frequency of direct trains from Liverpool Street heading east towards Aldgate East and beyond will be double the usual Hammersmith & City line frequency.

 

[bluegoblin7]

But they've done it before what makes this weekend any different?

Because the closure is for 4LM testing, specifically SMA 5 Earl's Court to Barons Court. Taking into account the buffer sections either side (indeed, so that the trains can actually run) this means that the Local lines will be inaccessible.

As ever: the world does not revolve around Turnham Green.

 

[transmanche]

[...] it should be stopping at least at Turnham Green we don't want a load of replacement buses clogging up the streets there [...]

First world problems...

 

[rebmcr]

Trains will run Hammersmith - Upminster every 10 Min and Hammersmith - Barking every 10 Min, meaning that the usual frequency will apply on the Hammersmith & Circle line between Hammersmith and Liverpool St of every 5 Min, but the frequency of direct trains from Liverpool Street heading east towards Aldgate East and beyond will be double the usual Hammersmith & City line frequency.

Do we know how the PIS will be handling that?

 

[Dstock7080]

Do we know how the PIS will be handling that?

Similar to the daily workings:
Hammersmith-Barking
Barking-Upminster
or
Aldgate East-Upminster

 

[bluegoblin7]

And of course for the return an Upminster-Hammersmith via King’s Cross code is provided.

 

[Dstock7080]

And of course for the return an Upminster-Hammersmith via King’s Cross code is provided.

Unfortunately not, code 407 “Barking-Hammersmith H&C” is being used from Upminster.
No automatic internal announcements will be made until Barking WB. External displays will show “Hammersmith & City Line - Hammersmith - All stations” also until the correct line of route is found at Barking WB.

 

[MikeWM]

I’m not sure it was working all that well, given I faced a 17 minute wait between westbound trains at Baker Street this afternoon (‘good service’, apparently).

 

[High Dyke]

Unfortunately not, code 407 “Barking-Hammersmith H&C” is being used from Upminster.
No automatic internal announcements will be made until Barking WB. External displays will show “Hammersmith & City Line - Hammersmith - All stations” also until the correct line of route is found at Barking WB.

Time to break out the time honoured London Transport paper destination stickers...

 

[simple simon]

Hmmm. £3.10 vs £22.00.

Mike, the railways never bear in mind the extra costs to passengers.

Although not in the same financial bracket, when (a few weeks ago) CBTC testing of Crossrail trains meant that stations between Stratford and Ilford were closed, rather than operate a bus replacement service that was free to passengers with valid tickets (and Oystercards) passengers were advised to use existing public service buses which require them to pay a bus fare. It may be that the fare is 'only' £1.50 but for people who are on state benefits or limited incomes even this small amount can be unaffordably unfair.

 

[LU_timetabler]

The Piccadilly Line trains can't run on the slow line / District tracks because of the reason stated above, there are signalling test trains running on the District tracks, and the closure possession area includes the crossover between the 2 lines at one end. The Piccadilly trains can't stop at Turnham Green on their normal tracks, without the whole timetable being re-written, since replacement bus service is running anyway - what's the point? And finally, this signal testing closure will repeat in the autumn, when the Piccadilly trains are running with their extended run time for leaf-fall timetable, so the added stopping time for Turnham Green, would make the service impracticable to operate.

 

[Mojo]

Because the closure is for 4LM testing, specifically SMA 5 Earl's Court to Barons Court. Taking into account the buffer sections either side (indeed, so that the trains can actually run) this means that the Local lines will be inaccessible.

The Piccadilly Line trains can't run on the slow line / District tracks because of the reason stated above, there are signalling test trains running on the District tracks, and the closure possession area includes the crossover between the 2 lines at one end.

Are you sure about this, because on Saturday morning there was an issue with an Eastbound Piccadilly line train near Chiswick Park and Eastbound services were diverted via the Eastbound Local line to Hammersmith?

 

[LU_timetabler]

Yes I am sure I wrote the timetable. The test train had to stop at Barons Court for permission to enter the possession. So no idea how they did what you describe.

 

[Mojo]

Yes I am sure I wrote the timetable. The test train had to stop at Barons Court for permission to enter the possession. So no idea how they did what you describe.

I’m not sure what that has got to do with anything given that trains quite clearly did run along the local to Hammersmith.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Are you sure about this, because on Saturday morning there was an issue with an Eastbound Piccadilly line train near Chiswick Park and Eastbound services were diverted via the Eastbound Local line to Hammersmith?

As always, this would be down to the discretion of the service control teams. Whilst prudent not to plan to use the local (the boundary being at Baron’s Court as above, so if problems had been encountered test trains could easily end up blocking back and then delay service trains), the various crossovers at Hammersmith are outside the SMA so would have been available for use if required. Buffer section was perhaps the wrong word to use (as that has a specific meaning in possession terms).