'Ditch unreliable expensive trains' - Flybe

[crewmeal]

An interesting article from the Western Morning News, but Haven't FlyBe been there before with their advertising stunts?

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...ays-punctual/story-25797271-detail/story.html

While train fares have just gone up and the price of fuel is coming down, taking the plane is becoming an increasingly appealing option.

Westcountry-based airline Flybe is highlighting convenience and value for money that its flying option offers.

The Exeter company, which was recently named the top UK airline for punctuality by consumer watchdog Which?, said the January 2 2.2% increase on rail fares including season tickets, single walk-up fares and off-peak services on long distance journeys and the constant disruptions to services, should encourage South West to London commuters and holiday makers to consider ditching the train for the plane.

The airline said the rail fare increase will have a significant financial impact on rail travellers and their household budgets as many face the reality of having to pay hundreds of pounds more for annual train fares with no visible improvement in service.

In some cases, the 2015 rail fare increase will be more than the average annual pay rise.

Paul Simmons, Flybe’s chief commercial officer, said: “With the significant annual increase in rail fares, flying is becoming an even more attractive option....

However with train fares on the rise we have yet to see airline fares fall as a result of the drop in fuel prices. Mind you as diesel has fallen have we seen rail fares drop?

 

[dk1]

For most of Devon & Cornwall the train wins hands down. Frequency is unbeatable really. If you live in or near Exeter maybe. Not major competition from what I can see.

 

[asylumxl]

I looked in to flying to Devon before and they are by no means cheap, nor are they convenient.
I may be mistaken, but I also believe they are cutting back a number of flights at the moment.

 

[The Ham]

The 2 questions I have for flybe is: will you match the delay repayments of the rail industry? And do you measure delays in the same way as the rail industry?

 

[notadriver]

How well do planes do on trunk routes such as London to Scotland?

 

[The Ham]

Edit: Punctuality for the railway is up to 10 minutes for long distance trains while the airlines measure Punctuality on planes arriving up to 15 minutes. Also the two Punctuality rates are:
FGW 84.5%
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/about/performance/
Flybe 83.4%
http://www.flightontime.info
So even with the favourable times the train is more reliable.

 

[Flamingo]

I do like in the "Related Stories" underneath the linked article above, "Flybe plane makes emergency landing after engine fire"... http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...nding-engine/story-25728439-detail/story.html

 

[Chapeltom]

I don't know about anyone else, I just can't be bothered with the hassle of airports and flying. You have to get there, be there for so long before the flight, take the flight then get off at the other end and still have to travel into the city where you've landed. Even with a one hour flight, you can still easily waste five hours.

 

[Flamingo]

The other big point is the "Holidaymaker" market they are aiming at travel with bloody big suitcases, which Airlines do not exactly welcome these days...

 

[pne]

The other big point is the "Holidaymaker" market they are aiming at travel with bloody big suitcases, which Airlines do not exactly welcome these days...

Which is one reason why I’ll be making my two-week trip from Germany to the UK in April by train: no worries about fitting exactly under the 20kg limit, embarrassment about forgetting one’s sunscreen in the backpack (whereupon this dangerous substance will be confiscated and discarded with much finger-wagging), queuing up for said security screening, waiting around at the destination for the luggage to finally appear, etc. etc.

There’s a bit of security faffing on Eurostar but it’s much less hassle then flying, especially time-wise. But the weight/size restriction is noticeably absent.

 

[D1009]

It often amazes me how blatant advertising is allowed to masquerade as a newspaper article.

 

[edwin_m]

It's also possible to get nearly 5hrs work done on a 5hr train journey. If the same journey by plane is 3hr (including all necessary transfers and waiting) it's very difficult to get anything at all done because there's either not room to open up the laptop or by the time you've started Windows you have to shut down and move somewhere else (at least if you're like me and can't type anything sensible on a tablet!). There's also the question of frequency - most journeys have trains every hour and walk-up tickets allow you to catch an earlier or later train although at the risk of having to stand. There are probably only two or three flights a day so even if the journey is quicker you end up sitting around waiting for the rest of the time. So I personally only consider flying for journeys that would take most of the day by train.

As well as the Flybe fire, within the past few days there has been a Loganair flight in Flybe colours blown off the runway at Stornoway and another fire on a twin engine turboprop approaching London City. No serious injuries in any of them, but how often does the railway (which carries far more passengers) suffer that sort of incident?

 

[Chrisgr31]

Whether you fly or train depends on a huge range of factors some of which very according to your reason for travelling.

However assuming you live near Exeter and want to do a day of meetings in London on Tuesday 13th January you can fly to London City and back, for a cost of around £105. Flight time is 1hr 10 each way, check in is 20 minutes. (Edit to add total journey time 3 hrs)

Going by train is a minimum cost of £75 (assuming Paddington arrival of 9.00), more likely £115 or so. Total journey time minimum 4hrs 25 more likely 5 hours.

Both London City and Exeter are going to be airports that are easy to get through and I would probably aim to be there 45 minutes in advance. With intercity trains I usually aim to be there 20 minutes early this gives time for delays on route to airport/station.

I believe that on this basis flying is the best option, however of course its only the right option if you live near Exeter and are going to central London. There are significantly less flights than there are trains in a daily period, and as someone has said you have luggage restrictions when flying.

I went to Exeter in October for work, the train was 2 hours late, and I never even realised flying was an option. I'd certainly consider it in the future.

When going to Scotland for work I always compare flying or going by train. Aberdeen is always flying but Edinburgh and Glasgow are less certain and I often fly one way and train the other. Its very dependent on what airport at the London end that is involved. Both Gatwick and Heathrow you have to allow significant extra time for check-in and getting through the airport. London City takes next to no time. The real issue is flight times, as there is never ideal flight times in both directions to the same airport. Its not such an issue with City or Heathrow as I'll use public transport to get there, with Gatwick I'll drive, so if I leave from there or return to there I need to drive there in the first place.

The newspaper article highlights the options, which I think is important. I doubt Flybe do a season ticket though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 2 questions I have for flybe is: will you match the delay repayments of the rail industry? And do you measure delays in the same way as the rail industry?

They aren't known as "Flymaybe" for nothing.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There’s a bit of security faffing on Eurostar but it’s much less hassle then flying, especially time-wise.

I don't find that airports generally have excessive security queues these days, at least not in the UK. That really is a story from years ago.

And TBH, I'd rather spend an hour in an airport departure lounge than half an hour in the fleapit that is Eurostar departures in Paris Gare du Nord. It really is an utter disgrace.

Neil

 

[Chrisgr31]

Incidentally also published on same day an article stating Flybe is reducing flights Exeter to London http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....-London-City/story-25797462-detail/story.html

 

[Flamingo]

Whether you fly or train depends on a huge range of factors some of which very according to your reason for travelling.

However assuming you live near Exeter and want to do a day of meetings in London on Tuesday 13th January you can fly to London City and back, for a cost of around £105. Flight time is 1hr 10 each way, check in is 20 minutes. (Edit to add total journey time 3 hrs)

Going by train is a minimum cost of £75 (assuming Paddington arrival of 9.00), more likely £115 or so. Total journey time minimum 4hrs 25 more likely 5 hours.

Both London City and Exeter are going to be airports that are easy to get through and I would probably aim to be there 45 minutes in advance. With intercity trains I usually aim to be there 20 minutes early this gives time for delays on route to airport/station.

I believe that on this basis flying is the best option, however of course its only the right option if you live near Exeter and are going to central London. There are significantly less flights than there are trains in a daily period, and as someone has said you have luggage restrictions when flying.

I went to Exeter in October for work, the train was 2 hours late, and I never even realised flying was an option. I'd certainly consider it in the future.

When going to Scotland for work I always compare flying or going by train. Aberdeen is always flying but Edinburgh and Glasgow are less certain and I often fly one way and train the other. Its very dependent on what airport at the London end that is involved. Both Gatwick and Heathrow you have to allow significant extra time for check-in and getting through the airport. London City takes next to no time. The real issue is flight times, as there is never ideal flight times in both directions to the same airport. Its not such an issue with City or Heathrow as I'll use public transport to get there, with Gatwick I'll drive, so if I leave from there or return to there I need to drive there in the first place.

The newspaper article highlights the options, which I think is important. I doubt Flybe do a season ticket though!

It's a bit disengenious to compare the price of a flexible walk-up train ticket for an hourly frequency train with the booked in advance inflexible airline ticket.

An Advance train ticket would be a more accurate comparison with the air ticket

 

[Chrisgr31]

It's a bit disengenious to compare the price of a flexible walk-up train ticket for an hourly frequency train with the booked in advance inflexible airline ticket.

An Advance train ticket would be a more accurate comparison with the air ticket

I didn't compare a flexible fare! I used the cheapest fare available for each option booking today on the National Rail site. Yes cheaper options are available for the train but only by using SWT and taking even longer.

I originally looked at fares for tomorrow and the train was ridiculously expensive compared to flying.

I was assuming that the traveller was travelling for work rather than leisure so wanted a full day in London. When travelling I am usually booking a maximum of a week in advance hence choosing next week and I deliberately choose Tuesday on the basis it would be less busy so cheaper. I have just checked prices for 10th February for the train and they are similar to the ones I gave.

 

[najaB]

The 2 questions I have for flybe is: will you match the delay repayments of the rail industry?

I was delayed by three hours on a Flybe flight back in June and I'm still waiting for compensation. So the answer appears to be "No".

 

[dk1]

Incidentally also published on same day an article stating Flybe is reducing flights Exeter to London http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....-London-City/story-25797462-detail/story.html

You have to laugh

 

[pne]

It's a bit disengenious to compare the price of a flexible walk-up train ticket for an hourly frequency train with the booked in advance inflexible airline ticket.

An Advance train ticket would be a more accurate comparison with the air ticket

Good point; flexible plane tickets being insanely expensive in my experience even for "short" trips (an hour or so being around €400 one way or something like that).

 

[455driver]

Whether you fly or train depends on a huge range of factors some of which very according to your reason for travelling.

However assuming you live near Exeter and want to do a day of meetings in London on Tuesday 13th January you can fly to London City and back, for a cost of around £105. Flight time is 1hr 10 each way, check in is 20 minutes. (Edit to add total journey time 3 hrs)

Going by train is a minimum cost of £75 (assuming Paddington arrival of 9.00), more likely £115 or so. Total journey time minimum 4hrs 25 more likely 5 hours.

Both London City and Exeter are going to be airports that are easy to get through and I would probably aim to be there 45 minutes in advance. With intercity trains I usually aim to be there 20 minutes early this gives time for delays on route to airport/station.

Whats wrong with this train-
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20092/2015/01/05/advanced

Which gets from Exeter st Davids 0652 to Paddington for 0900?

Where does your 4hrs 25 for rail come from exactly, are you walking from Paddington to the City?

 

[Spamcan81]

Given that Flybe have had and engine fire and a plane slide off a runway in the past few days, they're the last ones to talk about reliability.

 

[najaB]

Given that Flybe have had and engine fire and a plane slide off a runway in the past few days, they're the last ones to talk about reliability.

In the interest of fairness, it was a Loganair plane that went off the runway in Stornoway.

 

[Busaholic]

North Korea would probably provide a warmer welcome to intending passengers than Newquay Airport, from the moment they try to charge you for dropping a passenger off, then the £5 airport charge that's added to your ticket price.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The 4 hr 25 is total journey time, there and back and as soon as I posted I realised I had down a single journey for the air, so edited the post to add the total air time there and back.

The train you mention is one of the cheapest and quickest and was used by me for total journey times and pricings. My original post went into lots more detail about pricing and specific trains but was lost when I had to log back in to post it. The fastest train is 2hr 8 of which there appear to be 2 to London, but most are more like 2 hr 30. Fastest return appears to be 2hr 17 which makes the 4 hr 25.

Whilst that train is cheap in advance want to book it for tomorrow and it is £120, versus £80 for the plane although theres only 1 seat leaft on the plane.

The whole exercise surprised me because I happened to go to Exeter for work in October, and it never even occured to me to look at flying instead.

 

[RAPC]

A case of horses for courses, as a lot depends on the route. For the likes of Manchester to Southampton I've used Flybe for business as the price was cheaper than the train at the time and a lot quicker too. Similarly I used to fly Manchester to Bristol when Air Southwest operated the route as it was a lot quicker and usually around the same price of the Crosscountry service even when booking a couple of weeks in advance for peak times.

For something like Manchester to London I wouldn't even consider the plane even when cheaper than Virgin as the convenience is much higher. Looking at the timings for the likes of Exeter to London, I would be taking the train every time.

All depends on the route for me, but it isn't a clear cut case of one form of transport being better than the other. It all depends on what your travel needs are.

 

[Eng274]

If I was travelling from the South East to Glasgow/Edinburgh, my immediate preference would be the train.

From the very rare occasion I have to work further north, ie Aberdeen/Inverness, then unless I can fit it around the sleeper times, the plane will always win. Gatwick - inverness in under two hours is much better than a long rail journey from Euston/Kings Cross with a change in the central belt.

It is ruinously expensive though, but with dinky toy planes you will never get the economies of scale saving that the Airbus/737 offers other airlines. The punctuality has fortunately been spot on for the last five times I've used it, meaning that by the law of averages I'm overdue a cancellation or engine malfunction..

 

[matt_world2004]

Actuallly Delay repay payments for airline delays can be quite generous. I got £400 for a £250 flight under the European Union compensation scheme. I know before 9/11 flying was a valid commute option for many Americans but now you have all the security it is not worth it. For a plane to replace the train you would need season tickets and the ability to walk on shortly before departure, for domestics at least Which unless you redesign an airport and ignore the terrorism threat, isn't going to happen. Likewise this is why the Eurostar is not a valid commute option either as you cannot simply walk on.

 

[najaB]

Actuallly Delay repay payments for airline delays can be quite generous.

When you can get the airline to pay out, that is.

 

[Chrism20]

How well do planes do on trunk routes such as London to Scotland?

Roughly 600,000 passengers a month over the four main airports - Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness.

CAA Stats