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Diversions due to line closures in the Bristol area (August 2021)

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43 302

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What makes it possible on the first and last service? There is no need for a GWR HST to be north of the blockade whilst it is in place - eg no Cardiff to Bristol element of Taunton services.
They don't have to shunt at parkway. And there definitely is seeing as the CDF - GMV will be HST operated.
 
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JonathanH

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They don't have to shunt at parkway. And there definitely is seeing as the CDF - GMV will be HST operated.
There isn't a Cardiff to Great Malvern service during the period in question (9 August to 13 August) - The Gloucester services go via the Dr Days Curve to Brighton, Westbury and Weymouth.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-08-10/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...0/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GW

Cardiff to Gloucester / Great Malvern is the preceding week (2 August to 7 August)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...3/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GW
It isn't obvious to me that HSTs are being used but clearly timing loads don't necessarily represent what is being used. What is a better giveaway is that the units for the Cardiff to Gloucester / Great Malvern services start and finish the day at places that don't stable HSTs overnight.

It seems to me that the HST use is intended for south of Bristol for much of the period of the blockade, particularly as this is better suited to cycling of HSTs between Bristol and Devon / Cornwall.
 
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43 302

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There isn't a Cardiff to Great Malvern service during the period in question (9 August to 13 August) - The Gloucester services go via the Dr Days Curve to Brighton, Westbury and Weymouth.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-08-10/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...0/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GW

Cardiff to Gloucester / Great Malvern is the preceding week (2 August to 7 August)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...3/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GW
It isn't obvious to me that HSTs are being used but clearly timing loads don't necessarily represent what is being used. What is a better giveaway is that the units for the Cardiff to Gloucester / Great Malvern services start and finish the day at places that don't stable HSTs overnight.

It seems to me that the HST use is intended for south of Bristol for much of the period of the blockade, particularly as this is better suited to cycling of HSTs between Bristol and Devon / Cornwall.
Ah yes got my weeks mixed up! The CDF - GMV will definitely be booked HST though. As for the Class 9s through PM, it is possible for an HST to produce, just extremely unlikely.
 

JonathanH

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The CDF - GMV will definitely be booked HST though.
I don't see how you could reach that conclusion. Have I missed something? I note that all the Cardiff shunts are based on their WTT timings, reflecting the timing loads (HSTs) that match the usual Cardiff to Taunton allocations, but all the stabling locations reflect the usual Great Malvern / Gloucester to Westbury / Weymouth service, as will the crew diagrams north of Bristol Parkway, so it is presumably a mix of 158s and 16x.

My best guess at the diagrams for 2 August - 7 August is the following. Arguably 2 could be a HST (as the usual 0655 Gloucester to Penzance is a HST) but it seems to couple with 4 for the 1242 Gloucester to Cardiff Central. These all look like units to me.

1
5G77 0425 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2G77 0437 Gloucester to Worcester Shrub Hill
2T63 0520 Worcester Shrub Hill to Cardiff Central
5C67 0725 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E54 0800 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5O98 1030 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T98 1041 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C79 1330 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E66 1401 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5C28 1631 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T28 1644 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C91 1930 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E78 2000 Cardiff Central to Worcester Shrub Hill
2T40 2237 Worcester Shrub Hill to Bristol Temple Meads
5M95 0050 Bristol Temple Meads to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

2
5C65 0536 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Gloucester
2T65 0655 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
2E56 0900 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
5E56 1038 Gloucester to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs
5C18 1152 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2T18 1242 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C81 1430 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E68 1500 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T82 1641 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C89 1825 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E76 1900 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T34 2041 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5U32 2224 Cardiff Central to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

3
5G79 0550 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2G79 0604 Gloucester to Worcester Shrub Hill
2T72 0707 Worcester Shrub Hill to Cardiff Central
5C71 0927 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E58 1000 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5T78 1230 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T78 1242 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C83 1530 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E70 1600 Cardiff Central to Worcester Foregate Street
5T32 1825 Worcester Foregate Street to Worcester Foregate Street
2T32 1853 Worcester Foregate Street to Cardiff Central
5C95 2131 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E82 2200 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
5E82 2348 Gloucester to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs

4
5Y06 0553 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Cheltenham Spa
2T06 0614 Cheltenham Spa to Bristol Parkway
2E52 0754 Bristol Parkway to Gloucester
2T74 0842 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C73 1029 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E60 1100 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T18 1242 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C81 1430 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E68 1500 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T82 1641 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C89 1825 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E76 1900 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T34 2041 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5U32 2224 Cardiff Central to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

5
5O01 0511 Westbury Dmu Sidings to Westbury
2O01 0524 Westbury to Salisbury
5G81 0556 Salisbury to Salisbury
2G81 0634 Salisbury to Cheltenham Spa (via Swindon)
5G81 0907 Cheltenham Spa to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs
5O76 1031 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2T76 1041 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C77 1226 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E64 1300 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T22 1440 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C85 1627 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E72 1700 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T30 1842 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C93 2028 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E80 2100 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
5E80 2241 Gloucester to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs

6
5F03 0510 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Bristol Temple Meads
2E50 0555 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
5C12 0758 Worcester Foregate Street to Worcester Foregate Street
2T12 0855 Worcester Foregate Street to Cardiff Central
5C75 1130 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E94 1200 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5O80 1431 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T80 1441 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C87 1727 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E74 1800 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5T36 2042 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T36 2116 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5U34 2342 Cardiff Central to St Philips Mrsh H S T D
 
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43 302

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I don't see how you could reach that conclusion. Have I missed something? I note that all the Cardiff shunts are based on their WTT timings, reflecting the timing loads (HSTs) that match the usual Cardiff to Taunton allocations, but all the stabling locations reflect the usual Great Malvern / Gloucester to Westbury / Weymouth service, as will the crew diagrams north of Bristol Parkway, so it is presumably a mix of 158s and 16x.

My best guess at the diagrams for 2 August - 7 August is the following. Arguably 2 could be a HST (as the usual 0655 Gloucester to Penzance is a HST) but it seems to couple with 4 for the 1242 Gloucester to Cardiff Central. These all look like units to me.

1
5G77 0425 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2G77 0437 Gloucester to Worcester Shrub Hill
2T63 0520 Worcester Shrub Hill to Cardiff Central
5C67 0725 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E54 0800 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5O98 1030 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T98 1041 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C79 1330 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E66 1401 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5C28 1631 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T28 1644 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C91 1930 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E78 2000 Cardiff Central to Worcester Shrub Hill
2T40 2237 Worcester Shrub Hill to Bristol Temple Meads
5M95 0050 Bristol Temple Meads to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

2
5C65 0536 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Gloucester
2T65 0655 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
2E56 0900 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
5E56 1038 Gloucester to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs
5C18 1152 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2T18 1242 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C81 1430 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E68 1500 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T82 1641 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C89 1825 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E76 1900 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T34 2041 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5U32 2224 Cardiff Central to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

3
5G79 0550 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2G79 0604 Gloucester to Worcester Shrub Hill
2T72 0707 Worcester Shrub Hill to Cardiff Central
5C71 0927 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E58 1000 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5T78 1230 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T78 1242 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C83 1530 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E70 1600 Cardiff Central to Worcester Foregate Street
5T32 1825 Worcester Foregate Street to Worcester Foregate Street
2T32 1853 Worcester Foregate Street to Cardiff Central
5C95 2131 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E82 2200 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
5E82 2348 Gloucester to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs

4
5Y06 0553 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Cheltenham Spa
2T06 0614 Cheltenham Spa to Bristol Parkway
2E52 0754 Bristol Parkway to Gloucester
2T74 0842 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C73 1029 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E60 1100 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T18 1242 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C81 1430 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E68 1500 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T82 1641 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C89 1825 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E76 1900 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T34 2041 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5U32 2224 Cardiff Central to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

5
5O01 0511 Westbury Dmu Sidings to Westbury
2O01 0524 Westbury to Salisbury
5G81 0556 Salisbury to Salisbury
2G81 0634 Salisbury to Cheltenham Spa (via Swindon)
5G81 0907 Cheltenham Spa to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs
5O76 1031 Gloucester Carriage Sdgs to Gloucester
2T76 1041 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C77 1226 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E64 1300 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T22 1440 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C85 1627 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E72 1700 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
2T30 1842 Gloucester to Cardiff Central
5C93 2028 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E80 2100 Cardiff Central to Gloucester
5E80 2241 Gloucester to Gloucester Carriage Sdgs

6
5F03 0510 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Bristol Temple Meads (coupled to a Portsmouth formation)
2E50 0555 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
5C12 0758 Worcester Foregate Street to Worcester Foregate Street
2T12 0855 Worcester Foregate Street to Cardiff Central
5C75 1130 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E94 1200 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5O80 1431 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T80 1441 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5C87 1727 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Central
2E74 1800 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern
5T36 2042 Great Malvern to Great Malvern
2T36 2116 Great Malvern to Cardiff Central
5U34 2342 Cardiff Central to St Philips Mrsh H S T D
I'm not guessing. I am looking at the diagrams and booked stock right now. As it stands the diagrams starting 2T65 0655 GCR - CDF and 2E50 0555 BRI - WOF (which then goes on to form the GMVs) will be booked HST.
 

JonathanH

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I'm not guessing. I am looking at the diagrams and booked stock right now. As it stands the diagrams starting 2T65 0655 GCR - CDF and 2E50 0555 BRI - WOF (which then goes on to form the GMVs) will be booked HST.
Fair enough (although I note it isn't all six diagrams). What happens to the fourth 'diagram' after it reaches Gloucester off 2E60?
 

43 302

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Fair enough (although I note it isn't all six diagrams). What happens to the fourth 'diagram' after it reaches Gloucester off 2E60?
It forms 2T18. 2E50 should shunt via Henwick and the GMVs should shunt via Malvern Wells.
 

JonathanH

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It forms 2T18. 2E50 should shunt via Henwick and the GMVs should shunt via Malvern Wells.
Something still wrong with '2' and '5' then from my guesswork then. Might work if '2' does 2T76 and '5' parks up for the rest of the day.
 

Horizon22

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Well I never! Those proposed services running via St Philips Marsh for week commencing 9/8/21 have actually appeared in Real Time Trains.

I'm genuinely shocked at the outbreak of common sense on the modern railway. I'm pretty sure there is no way something like this would have happened 10 years ago. If it comes off, I'll be much impressed and will say a hearty well done to all concerned.

I'd imagine that these trains will be busy with people coming from all over to bag very rare track mileage.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...09/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

View attachment 98975

Why would it not have come off - it just needed a bit of work with the scheduling, a safety case with GWR & NR for trains in passenger service and a briefing for the guards of the few services that will be traversing the area.
 

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Why would it not have come off - it just needed a bit of work with the scheduling, a safety case with GWR & NR for trains in passenger service and a briefing for the guards of the few services that will be traversing the area.
Unfortunately a lot of operators would simply have given up and stuck people in a bus. So full marks to GWR for pulling through on that one.
 

tiptoptaff

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Take your booked diagrams, throw them out of the window.

Traction and route knowledge around 255s at the moment, especially in the Bristol area, is dire. Covid restrictions have hit that hard.

HSTs will not be put on the BPW-SPM-WSMs and more likely is units will work vice hsts on what they "should" be on

I'm not guessing. I am looking at the diagrams and booked stock right now. As it stands the diagrams starting 2T65 0655 GCR - CDF and 2E50 0555 BRI - WOF (which then goes on to form the GMVs) will be booked HST.
It's funny you said this, as, I have been informed today by people in the know, that the diagrams haven't been written yet
 
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43 302

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Take your booked diagrams, throw them out of the window.

Traction and route knowledge around 255s at the moment, especially in the Bristol area, is dire. Covid restrictions have hit that hard.

HSTs will not be put on the BPW-SPM-WSMs and more likely is units will work vice hsts on what they "should" be on


It's funny you said this, as, I have been informed today by people in the know, that the diagrams haven't been written yet
The diagrams have been made. I didn't say they were 100% confirmed. As it stands 2E50 etc should be booked HST.
 

tiptoptaff

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The diagrams have been made. I didn't say they were 100% confirmed. As it stands 2E50 etc should be booked HST.
The diagrams definitely haven't been written, because nothing has been agreed yet...
 

43 302

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The diagrams definitely haven't been written, because nothing has been agreed yet...
You're not comprehending the fact that something can be planned to happen currently, yet still potentially change in the future. We will see what happens...
 

tiptoptaff

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You're not comprehending the fact that something can be planned to happen currently, yet still potentially change in the future. We will see what happens...
I fully comprehend it. I also know STP don't write swathes of diagrams before they know the parameters they can work to. They have enough work as it is without making more for themselves
 
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Only 2 Short formed HSTs have ever reached GMV, both at the end of 2019, and both were down to nothing else available for the diagram. Unlikely to see them again.
 
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43 302

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Only 2 Short fromed HSTs have ever reached GMV, both at the end of 2019, and both were down to nothing else available for the diagram. Unlikely to see them again.
Both slam door sets. I am unaware of a sliding door set making it so far. If no one believes me that a sliding door set will be diagrammed I guess we will just have to wait and see!
 

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Will any through services stop at Bedminster during the diversion, perhaps as an alternative to Temple Meads?
 

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Both slam door sets. I am unaware of a sliding door set making it so far. If no one believes me that a sliding door set will be diagrammed I guess we will just have to wait and see!
What are the issues (if indeed they exist at all) with sending an HST to Malvern? It's not like it'll be going through the tunnel beyond there.
 

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I should imagine the Castles will stay west of Bristol and everything to and from Great Malvern will be 158s/Turbos.
 

43 302

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What are the issues (if indeed they exist at all) with sending an HST to Malvern? It's not like it'll be going through the tunnel beyond there.
It's to do with where the diagrams go the other side of Bristol. I.e routes not cleared for castles. That will obviously change when the diagrams go to Cardiff...
 

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It's to do with where the diagrams go the other side of Bristol. I.e routes not cleared for castles. That will obviously change when the diagrams go to Cardiff...
Ok, thanks. So there isn't actually anything stopping a castle going to Malvern, it's just where it goes after Bristol?
 

tiptoptaff

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Thats to facilitate using it as a trrmi
I note in the weekly notice there are temporary platform extensions at Bedminster just brought into use.
That's to facilitate its use as a terminus later in the blockade
 
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Well hopefully there'll be lots on the Malvern trains, as it'll provide something different to photograph! :D
No, there is nothing to stop a 2+4 set going to Malvern (after all on Sundays 2 sets venture as far as Worcester Foregate Street), and of course the NMT still runs on the line through to Hereford so there is no reason for an HST being out of gauge. Its just that the diagrams are put for Sprinter/Turbo allocations weekdays as the Castle fleet is often being used quite a bit south of Bristol, and only when the spare capacity exists (i.e., on a Sunday) are they able to go anywhere else.
 

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No, there is nothing to stop a 2+4 set going to Malvern (after all on Sundays 2 sets venture as far as Worcester Foregate Street), and of course the NMT still runs on the line through to Hereford so there is no reason for an HST being out of gauge. Its just that the diagrams are put for Sprinter/Turbo allocations weekdays as the Castle fleet is often being used quite a bit south of Bristol, and only when the spare capacity exists (i.e., on a Sunday) are they able to go anywhere else.

Castles cannot always work where conventional HSTs can, Paddington as an example. If they haven't been already, they would still have to be cleared to work between Foregate St and Great Malvern
 
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