Diversions to alternative London terminals

Status
Not open for further replies.

ShadowKnight

Member
Joined
22 Oct 2019
Messages
12
Location
Liverpool
I'll start with I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, please move to the appropriate place if needed.

I've seen clips of fgw HSTs diverted to Marylebone and Waterloo during times of disruption, also southeastern trains to Waterloo and Hull Trains to st pancras.

Are there other known diversions from one London terminal to another?

Also specifically with GWR, could they still divert to Marylebone/Waterloo with IEPs or what obstacles are there to that?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mcr Warrior

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
4,318
The Anglo Scottish (Caledonian) Sleepers have from time to time been diverted to/from London Kings Cross, usually when there's been major disruption or engineering works on the WCML.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
25,911
I'll start with I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, please move to the appropriate place if needed.

I've seen clips of fgw HSTs diverted to Marylebone and Waterloo during times of disruption, also southeastern trains to Waterloo and Hull Trains to st pancras.

Are there other known diversions from one London terminal to another?

Also specifically with GWR, could they still divert to Marylebone/Waterloo with IEPs or what obstacles are there to that?
IEP route clearance was supposed to be done for Reading to Waterloo via Ascot, but I don’t think it was ever progressed. Ascot and some other platforms have significant speed limits for Mk3s and other similar stock anyway.

Salisbury to Waterloo diversion via Basingstoke and Woking was only done for the critical points of the Reading station area rebuild, I doubt it will have been needed to maintain that capability since Reading was finished.
 
Last edited:

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
29,760
Location
Yorks
Loads on the South Eastern between Victoria, Charing Cross and Cannon Street depending on various blockages.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
14,473
Hull Trains divert into St. Pancras during some ECML blocks.


Chiltern, until Dec 2018, diverted into Paddington (now West Ealing)
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
11,637
The Anglo Scottish (Caledonian) Sleepers have from time to time been diverted to/from London Kings Cross, usually when there's been major disruption or engineering works on the WCML.
They also do that as a standard operation to allow blocks in Scotland, normally weeks 1-12 in railway speak.
 

strimmer

Member
Joined
29 Jan 2010
Messages
107
In October and November 1991, some West Coast services were diverted from Euston into St Pancras. This was due to an engineering blockade at Wembley.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
4,262
Location
Gateway to the South West
I've seen clips of fgw HSTs diverted to Marylebone and Waterloo during times of disruption, also southeastern trains to Waterloo and Hull Trains to st pancras.
Strictly, none of those were disruption but planned diversion because of engineering works (not that that changes the point of the discussion!)

In October and November 1991, some West Coast services were diverted from Euston into St Pancras. This was due to an engineering blockade at Wembley.
Electric hauled south of Bedford, too.
 

d9009alycidon

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2011
Messages
644
Location
Troon
Back in the good old Loco hauled days there was a regular Sunday Glasgow to Paddington Service, ran via Kilmarnock, Birmingham, Oxford and Reading, so it was good for haulage as it was Diesel Glasgow to Carlisle, Electric Carlisle to Birmingham and Diesel Birmingham to Paddington. I used it once and it had the added attraction of a drag form Preston to Crewe via Manchester, had a 47, 87, (40+87), 87 then 50. Back when the WCML was being electrified in the 1960s there were a lot of scheduled diversions to Marylebone and St Pancras and also beyond that period you had the "Starlight Expresses" form Scotland to Marylebone
 

Hey 3

Member
Joined
13 Aug 2020
Messages
322
Location
Manchester, UK
Project Rio- the service from Manchester Piccadilly was diverted at both ends of the route, creating the Midland Pullman, 1960's predesscor from Manchester Central to London St Pancras International calling only at Cheadle Heath(when WCML electrification and upgrades took place) and during the 2nd round of upgrades(where Project Rio comes from), with the MidlandMain Line franchise providing services from Manchester Piccadilly to London St Pancras, calling at Stockport, Leicester etc and ran via Dore South curve, the Hope Valley Line and the Midland Main Line.
 
Last edited:

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
15,983
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Back in the good old Loco hauled days there was a regular Sunday Glasgow to Paddington Service, ran via Kilmarnock, Birmingham, Oxford and Reading, so it was good for haulage as it was Diesel Glasgow to Carlisle, Electric Carlisle to Birmingham and Diesel Birmingham to Paddington. I used it once and it had the added attraction of a drag form Preston to Crewe via Manchester, had a 47, 87, (40+87), 87 then 50. Back when the WCML was being electrified in the 1960s there were a lot of scheduled diversions to Marylebone and St Pancras and also beyond that period you had the "Starlight Expresses" form Scotland to Marylebone

Kensington Olympia was also used for WCML diversions in the 1960s (and became London's Motorail terminal).

When Caledonian Sleepers divert from the WCML, I thought they use the ECML and NLL to reach Wembley and then reverse into Euston.
As opposed to using King's Cross as a terminal?
 

Watershed

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
2,647
Location
UK
When Caledonian Sleepers divert from the WCML, I thought they use the ECML and NLL to reach Wembley and then reverse into Euston.
As opposed to using King's Cross as a terminal?
Either option can be used, depending on what's most appropriate.
 

Bigman

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
223
Location
Leeds
I was on Doncaster station 2 years ago and there were no trains running to Kings Cross due to engineering works. A Hull Trains IET (which had a door problem for an hour) was booked to work to Liverpool Street. I believe it turned round at Cambridge in the end due to running so late.
 
Joined
18 Aug 2019
Messages
626
Location
London
When the Thameslink Core is shut Thameslink services from sussex divert to London Bridge platforms 10-15, and Sevenoaks/Orpington Thameslink services divert to London Victoria Eastern.

When London Victoria platforms's 11-19 are shut southern services divert to London Bridge platforms 10-15.

Southeastern subarban services also divert to London Blackfriars if London Victoria is shut.
 

CW2

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2020
Messages
1,308
Location
Crewe
Either option can be used, depending on what's most appropriate.
Diversion via Wembley to Euston is preferred, as the full length trains cannot be accommodated in Kings Cross, so only a reduced length train can be offered. As far as I am aware this hasn't occured since the new sl CAF sets came into service, so I'm not sure how they would cope. There were some sleepers in and out of Kings Cross in 2016, but before that nothing since 1988.
 

Stuart21

Member
Joined
31 Oct 2014
Messages
5
One Sunday in about 1988-89 when returning to Edinburgh from London, I arrived at Kings Cross only to be redirected next door to St Pancras. I joined the train there and we proceeded non-stop up the MML, Toton yard & Chesterfield before turning off before Sheffield to rejoin the ECML near Doncaster. I think the first stop was York. Not sure where the engineering work was but the delay was about an hour which included a later start time from PAN. Sure the train was a HST.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
11,786
Location
Airedale
Back in the good old Loco hauled days there was a regular Sunday Glasgow to Paddington Service, ran via Kilmarnock, Birmingham, Oxford and Reading, so it was good for haulage as it was Diesel Glasgow to Carlisle, Electric Carlisle to Birmingham and Diesel Birmingham to Paddington.
That wasn't a diversion, though (apart from the Kilmarnock routing), just a Scotland-Thames Valley heading for Old Oak. There were random Paddington-Reading-beyond Birmingham workings in those days.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
1,726
Location
County Durham
When Caledonian Sleepers divert from the WCML, I thought they use the ECML and NLL to reach Wembley and then reverse into Euston.
As opposed to using King's Cross as a terminal?
Either option can be used, depending on what's most appropriate.
Diversion via Wembley to Euston is preferred, as the full length trains cannot be accommodated in Kings Cross, so only a reduced length train can be offered. As far as I am aware this hasn't occured since the new sl CAF sets came into service, so I'm not sure how they would cope. There were some sleepers in and out of Kings Cross in 2016, but before that nothing since 1988.
The preferred option for the East Coast sleeper diversions is to run to Euston via Wembley, Kings Cross normally only being used either if Euston is shut or if there are works on the North London Line preventing access to Wembley.

The Mark 5 sets have diverted to Kings Cross, I had a trip on the sleeper with Mark 5s from Kings Cross in May 2019. I think the Mark 5s had only been in service for a week or two at that point, and I'm not sure if it's happened again since.
 

steamybrian

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,437
Location
Kent
When Broad Street station closed services were diverted to Liverpool Street via the Graham Road curve.

I will also agree with earlier correspondence that there many standard diversions of combinations between Victoria, Blackfriars, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, London Bridge from both South Eastern and Southern Railway services.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
4,161
During to fallen trees I have been diverted into Paddington instead of Euston. Sadly just a Duff on the front rather than an electric being dragged.
 

Steve Harris

Member
Joined
11 Dec 2016
Messages
674
Location
ECML
Not a diversion as such, but there used to be a scheduled service for a Wales and West Class 158 into and out of Waterloo. I don't think it lasted many years (if that). Certainly an unusual service though.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
10,575
Wrexham & Shropshire, during their short time as an open access operator, diverted into Paddington during engineering work.
 

Ianigsy

Member
Joined
12 May 2015
Messages
720
As has been mentioned before, St Pancras and Paddington were both used in the event of disruption on the WCML. I remember once having to go to Euston for a Liverpool train circa 1980 to find it was leaving from the GW terminus.

When Liverpool Lime Street was rebuilt in the 1980s, a couple of Sunday Euston services used Rock Ferry, which seems unimaginable today.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
2,727
Location
London
Not sure if this is the theme of the thread but Thameslink regularly have Sunday services from the Southeastern side of Victoria. And Southeastern regularly diverts between Victoria / Cannon St / Charing Cross as engineering works require.
 

leshuttle

Member
Joined
12 Jan 2007
Messages
123
Location
Tonbridge
Southeastern ran some Tonbridge route trains from Hastings and Ramsgate/Dover into Waterloo main station a few years ago during the London Bridge rebuild. They were routed along the old Eurostar link into the old International platforms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top